Talk:History of Australia/Archive 1
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Misc
I tried to put up a little sentence before the article divides; I personally think articles look better if they have an introduction.---Mihoshi 16:45, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Victoria was first settled in 1835, not 1851
- Settled in 1835, yes. It became a seperate state in 1851. Prior to that it was part of NSW.
The post-European history is very weak at present, barely an overview, and needs considerable expansion. Anyone want to take it on? ____
Tannin, check out this diff: http://www.wiki.x.io/w/wiki.phtml?title=History_of_Australia&diff=0&oldid=21828
It is very clear that much of the second half of this article still has US government paid for public domain text. At the very least that source should be listed as a normal information reference so I'm putting the cite back in. If you like you can rephrase the cite so that it looks like the CIA and DoS were used a regular references and not as a source for the actual text. --mav 04:26 29 May 2003 (UTC)
Nonsense: a single sentence does not make an article. That CIA attribution is inaccurate and highly offensive, to Australia, and to the Australians who wrote the vast bulk of the entry. This truly is a case of "Yankee go home". Tannin 16:46 29 May 2003 (UTC)
- Was not the CIA / DoS information still used? Even rewritten text warrents an attribution. But, I guess, having the attrib on the talk page is enough. --mav
A note for posterity: An earlier version of this article incorporated public domain text from the CIA World Factbook 2000 and the 2003 U.S. Department of State website.
"Advanced" as a description of Aboriginal land management practices is vastly more accurate than "rudimentary" - the term that was use to replace it. The evidence for this is conclusive: since traditional Aboriginal land management practices were brought to an end (by European settlers from 1788 on) there has been a vast wave of land degredation and many species extinctions in Australia. Australia has the worst record in the entire world for mammal extinctions, with 22 species recently wiped out. Aboriginal land management practies were complex and often subtle; their cessation is directly implicated in the extinction of a number of mammal species. The land management practies of Europeans, in stark contrast, have been an unmitigated disaster. There may be a better word than "advanced" to indicate the extraordinary sensitivity that Aboriginal people had to their environment, and their ability to work with it rather than against it. "Rudimentary", however, is certainly not it. Tannin 00:36 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Excised text -- Tim Starling 14:28 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)
- much more about early history, including rum rebellion, beginning of free settlers, wool, the French ship that almost claimed us etc.*
Dot points for further discussion
- The Gold Rush, bushrangers
- World War II and the realignment away from Britain and towards US. War in general could do with elaboration, starting with the Boer War, then World War I, World War II, Vietnam War, Korean War, Malayan Emergency. Some mention of ANZACs would be worthwhile also.
- The Stolen Generation and treatment of Kooris more generally.
- Postwar immigration, the beginning of the end of the White Australia Policy.
- WA attempt to succeed from the rest of Australia ~1930.
- Economic expansion and cultural sleepiness of the Menzies years.
- Vietnam war, protests and other clashes.
- Whitlam government and the dismissal.
- Arrival of vietnamese boat people, non-discriminatory migration policy
- Economic deregulation of the 1980s.
- Australian participation in project Echelon and US military bases in general.
- Mabo case and Native Title
- Republic debate, Howard's 1996 win, contemporary events, struggles for future
- Also could do with links to subpages (eg. the aus foreign relations page wasn't linked to directly, bound to be others).
- Environmental degradation and the adaptation to the Southern Oscillation.
My eventual goal for this article is to continue expanding for a while, then split the current material into a number of subsidiary articles, leaving a 2-3 page summary here. -- Tim Starling 12:55, Aug 11, 2003 (UTC)
Some comments
I agree that the post-settlement section is weak and I might have a go at writing some text when I have time. Most noticeably there is nothing on constitutional development and the growth of democratic institutions, or on the labour movement.
A couple of small errors in passing:
> Quiros called the islands he discovered Australalia del Espiritu Santo, not Australia del Espiritu Santo. (by the way, what is a Counter-Reformation Catholic and why is it relevant?)
- There's more to that story, and it isn't explained very well here. De Quiros wasn't just a catholic, he was (judging by [1]) commissioned by the pope. From [2]:
- Viceroys of Spain's American empire regularly sought new lands. One such expedition left Callao, Peru, in December 1605 under Pedro Fernandez de Quiros, a man of the Counter-Reformation who desired that Catholicism should prevail in the southland. De Quiros reached the New Hebrides and named the island group 'Australia del Espiritu Santo' and he and some later Catholic historians saw this as the discovery of Australia.
- The counter-reformation movement is mentioned in Protestant Reformation. -- Tim Starling 02:55, Sep 12, 2003 (UTC)
> Murrumbidgee River, not Murrimbidgee
> The section on Aboriginal mortality is well-balanced, but the reference to poisoned blankets is gratuitous - this persistent myth is based on ONE reported (but not verified) incident.
> The section on federation is seriously deficient. The plural of referendum is referendums.
> ANZAC Day is not "an annual holiday to remember its [Australia's] military's victories and losses." It is a day to remember Australia's war dead.
> A reference to the stolen generation debate without any discusion of Aboriginal affairs in the recent period, such as the 1967 referendum and the land-rights movement, is seriously misleading.
> An Australian republic was NOT "a subject of discussion for much of Australia’s history since Federation." It was barely mentioned until the 1970s, and became a serious issue only during the Keating government.
Dr Adam Carr Melbourne
- Thank you for your help, Adam. Please Be bold in updating pages -- most of the problems here would have taken you less time to correct than to complain about. I know that this article needs much more work, and any contribution you make would be greatly appreciated. I haven't been doing much on it lately, I've been writing MediaWiki code instead. -- Tim Starling 02:02, Sep 12, 2003 (UTC)
Tim: I don't really approve of overwriting other people's work without their permission. That's why I am reluctant to post articles here. If you want to make corrections to your text in the light of what I have said, that is your privilege. I may be wrong after all :)
On constitutional history, I now notice there is a separate page on that. That page has its deficiencies too, but it doesn't need to be duplicated here. I do think a section on the rise of colonial democracy and the labour movement would be valuable for non-Australian readers - it is after all one of the things that makes Australian history distinctive. I might have a go at that when I get time.
AC
- You don't approve of overwriting other people's work? That is because you are a newbie :) From Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages:
- For the most part, the instinctive desire of an author to "own" what he has written is counterproductive here, and it is good to shake up that emotional attachment by making sweeping changes at will when it improves the result. And of course, others here will boldly and mercilessly edit what you write. Don't take it personally. They, like all of us, just want to make Wikipedia the best it can be.
- Most common Wikipedia faux pas number 1 is:
- Worrying too much that you're going to mess things up. You probably will a little; everybody does, to some extent. But then someone else will probably clean up after you. The community encourages participants to be bold in updating pages.
- And number 7 is:
- Thinking that there is an "author" of any given article you read. A common misconception of new arrivals to Wikipedia is that there are single authors of articles. This leads people to issue critiques on Talk: pages when they could just as easily make changes to articles themselves. The fact of the matter though is that no article here has just one official author, even if only one person has worked on it. Anyone can work on any article, and if you see a problem with an article, you are encouraged to fix it. Don't bother with the Talk: page unless politeness demands you explain what you've changed, or that you ask a question first. For more information, see Be bold in updating pages and Talk page.
- Also, you might want to consider creating a user account. You don't need to supply any personal details, just a username and a password. The benefits are described at Wikipedia:How to log in, but IMHO the greatest benefit is that it provides a method for one Wikipedian to reliably contact another. All that I've written here could have been written on your user talk page, if you had one. -- Tim Starling 04:20, Sep 13, 2003 (UTC)
"Australalia del Espiritu Santo" got no Google hits, so I grabbed my copy of Macquarie University's "People of Australia", a book I bought a week ago for the sole purpose of using it in this article :) It's actually "Austrialia".
"The plural of referendum is referendums." Both Mirriam-Webster's and the Macquarie Dictionary say it can be either referenda or referendums. I've heard "referenda".
Of course neither of those things means that you shouldn't have made the change. I (or someone else) would have checked the facts when you made the change, and we would have duly fixed it. -- Tim Starling 05:10, Sep 13, 2003 (UTC)
Since Tim assures me that it is OK to rewrite this article, I have done so. Anyone who wants to argue with me about anything I have written is welcome to do so :) Dr Adam Carr 13 September
- Nice work, Adam. It's improving significantly. Tannin 13:45, 13 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Aboriginal history - prehistory
I reverted the excision of the Aboriginal history section. That is a vital, perhaps the vital part of Australia's history, for that is the period when the whole shape of our continent, and the creatures that live on it, was determined. To attempt to understand Australia without understanding the history of this land is utterly impossible.
- I didn't excise it, I moved it to a separate page because this one is over 30kb and I am getting a warning message. In any case strictly speaking prehistory is not the same as history so the division is quite logical.
210.10.32.12 13:50, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
By all means cut something out and move it then, but not the most important part. Tannin
- I don't see that it is any more important than any other part. I also don't see any other logical place to divide the piece in two. I am happy to suggest that readers should read the prehistory piece first, but in fact prehistory does not belong on a history page. Australian history, properly defined, begins in 1606.Dr Adam Carr 13:59, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- Then tell me this? Where does our fauna come from? Where does our landscape come from? Why can you see eucalypts spread over 70% of the forested part of the continent? Why is the interior so arid? Why are there no Diprotodons browsing in the Royal National Park? And what of the gross insult to our Aboriginal citizens? Honestly, that was a really really bad idea. If the page needs to be split, then so be it, but the Aboriginal history came first, included a number of crucial events to the creation of this nation as it stands today, and cannot be simply swept under the carpet as if it never existed. Whatever else may have to go, it cannot be the 53,000 years of history that occurred before the white man came. Tannin 14:16, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Do calm down Tannin - let me explain this as carefully as I can. "Natural history," "prehistory" and "history" are three different things. Natural history is what happened in Australia before humans arrived here. Prehistory is what happened between the arrival of humans and the beginning of recorded history. History is the narrative of human events of which we have records. We have no records of anything that happened in Australia before 1606, so that is the beginning of Australian history. Can you name, let alone date, one of these "crucial events" that happened before 1606? You can't, because we have no record of anything that happened before that date.
Of course the fact that Australia was inhabited by humans for 53,000 (or whatever) years is important, but the study of that period is either palaeoanthropology or archaeology - not history. There is nothing insulting or any other such subjectivity about this, it is a standard division of disciplines. It is not insulting to trees to say that their study comes under botany, not zoology.
So, if the page is too long, as seems to be the case, then the logical thing to do is create a prehistory page. I agree that readers should read that page first, so let's call it Australian history 1 or something, and the other page Australian history 2, ok? This slight terminological inexactitude is permissible in the interests of consensus. Dr Adam Carr 14:38, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
(Actually, we can date quite a few events - but that is an aside.) As you correctly gather, I am very concerned to retain the Aboriginal history section in its proper place - i.e., first, because it happened first and everything else that has happened since has been (in part) a result of it. I really do believe that this is vital. Relegating it to a sub-page is just not on.
Apart from its importance as a primary shaping factor of more recent history (and of the present day), it would be a huge mistake to think that Australia began in 1788. (You know all this, of course, just as well as I know the difference between palaeoanthropology and history, but I'll spell it out for all to read.)
This is a shared land, with a shared history. We do not have an "us" (post 1788) and a "them" (pre-1788): we just have Australians. It doesn't matter if you were born in London of Cockney parents or in Brunswick of Vietnamese descent, you nevertheless are the heir to an Australian heritage that goes back 50,000 years or more.
Now, to practicalities. Yes, the page 'is getting too long. (And a good deal of that thanks to your efforts!) Something will need to be done about it fairly promptly. However, consigning the 4 or 5 paragraphs of Aboriginal history to a sub-page will only provide a few weeks grace. As a long-term measure, it won't be nearly enough. The split you propose, in other words, is a good idea and indeed an inevitability, but we need to split somewhere closer to the middle. (Middle as in "middle of text", I mean.) Possibly pre-federation and post federation, that would work, I think. It ain't perfect, but it's roughly in the middle of the text, and it provides a convienient cut-off point.
Title? How about Early Australian history and Recent Australian history? Is that better than "1" and "2"?
Best -- Tannin 16:14, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
OK Tannin, I don't think it's important enough to have a brawl in our little Aust hist caucus about, so I'm happy to split the file at Federation as you suggest. Eventually we might want to split the file up in a number of ways, either chronologically or thematically, as it gets bigger.
Having said that, I do think it is ahistorical to say that the Aboriginal people before 1788 were "Australians." Surely that is imposing a European construct of nationhood on their very different sense of their own place in the world? 1788 does mark a fundamental rupture in the history of this continent, with the period 1606-1788 serving as a sort of prelude to that rupture. This would be a good topic to explore in a further article, yes?
I am now really keen to know what events in Australian history before 1606 you can name and date. :) Cheers, Dr Adam Carr 04:14, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- Hello. I agree with Tannin. To call the period up to 1606 "prehistory" is not the best choice of word. There was a very strong history that the Aboriginal people carried in their heads and passed on to each generation through story and song. In order to get initiated and go through law, you needed to prove you wanted to learn these things - that you were interested in history.
- I don't think the issue of naming and dating is what this is about. Since Europeans have been on this continent for the last five minutes, it's plain silly and conceited to rule out 40,000 years of history prior to that. Confer History of the USA or History of Canada(and yes, certainly a separate article is necessary, as it is for a number of the subjects on this page).
- DRyan
Let's rename the articles to History of Australia before 1901 and History of Australia since 1901 to be more "formal" sounding. --Jiang 07:38, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- You beat me to it! I was just about to suggest this, it's also more consistent with the other history pages, such as History of Germany and History of the United States. Also we should have summaries from those pages included here, under the subheadings. A suggested template follows. --Lexor 12:47, 23 Sep 2003 (UTC)
History of Australia before 1901
Main article: History of Australia before 1901
(summary of article here...)
History of Australia since 1901
Main article: History of Australia since 1901
(summary of article here... e.g. Australia was become a federation in 1901 etc.)
seems ok to me - who is going to write it? Dr Adam Carr 13:41, 23 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- I went ahead and made the suggested changes, actually took the text from the main page just to start things up. I haven't renamed the pages as yet, I didn't want to do that until the currently active contributors to the page such as yourself were aware of it. Can I do the rename now? --Lexor 13:58, 23 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- OK, rename done now. I've got to go, so I'll change all the links in the tables etc. to avoid the redirects later, if somebody else doesn't beat me to it. --Lexor 14:18, 23 Sep 2003 (UTC)
This article really hasn't had much activity at all since last October. In the meantime, the American article has undergone a massive rewrite, and is now seperated up into small chunks of as little as twenty years per article. I doubt we could get that much, but there's a lot of history not included here. Any thoughts on trying to (at least partly) match the American effort? Ambivalenthysteria 04:21, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I am opposed to breaking this article up into smaller ones. Encyclopaedia readers expect to find a broad synoptic national history. People who have more specialised interests can write feeder articles and link them to this one, eg History of Australian music or History of Australia in the 1890s or Economic history of Australia. Adam 06:11, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- What's wrong with the American format of doing that? (Summary with link to the larger article) Ambivalenthysteria 06:14, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Please give a link to the American article you are refering to. Adam 06:15, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- History of the United States Ambivalenthysteria 11:58, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Well, if we were to treat Australian history that way, someone would have to do a great deal of writing to create all those subsidiary articles dealing with each period. Once they exist they can be linked to, but there is no point in creating a lot of dead links to articles which no-one has written yet. Adam 14:04, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I know that. I was just proposing that we overhaul this article, and try for the level of detail and formatting seen in the American one. If it's okay with you, I'll start trying to expand it when I get the chance. Ambivalenthysteria 00:28, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
We'll be watching :) Adam 00:52, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Category:History of the Germanic peoples
The original occupants of Australia were certainly not Germanic, over 1000 years of history had passed between the Germanic tribes coming to England and its colonisation of Australia. A large proportion of the immigrants to Australia, throughout its history, were Irish or Scottish. These days a large fraction of Australia's population are either immigrants from non Anglo-Celtic countries or descended from such. Given all that, listing Australia in the "history of the Germanic peoples" seems like a stretch too far, I would have thought. --Robert Merkel 02:01, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
the side box
How can i edit that little box with the pic of the coat of arms on it. Just cause there is a line put in the middle of the list of the states which seems a little useless. The bellman 12:35, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- You'll notice at the top of the article it says {{History_of_Australia}}. This means that a template called "History of Australia" has been included. You can get to this page by going to Template:History of Australia. HOWEVER.. the line in the middle is to separate the city articles (Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney) from the state articles (Tasmania, Victoria, WA) so it does serve a purpose - best to leave it. -- Chuq 12:42, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I have created Wikipedia:WikiProject History/Status, which has some notes about what needs to be done to make this article featured. Please add other suggestions and see what you can to help. Tuf-Kat
reorganisation discussion
a heads up on a discussion on reorganisation for people only watching this main article. chime in at: Talk:History of Australia before 1901#Split into smaller articles?. perhaps that discussion should be moved here. clarkk 12:44, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
- Note my message to User:Toothpaste here on her merging of the history of Aust articles back together. I think we have had a lot of discussion about this and it's unwise to abruptly undo all the thought and hard work that has been put into separating them. Lisa 22:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
material added by anon
The following block was added to the top of this talk page by 203.129.47.97. I have moved it to the bottom here, and also point out that it appears to be copied directly from an external site. Please someone advise what to do. Dmharvey 12:51, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
copied portion
Here's my history of Australia in four short parts:
A Very Quick History of Australia
How much understanding of Australian national history should we all have? One would think as much as possible. Knowing some key events and names, an appreciation of the development of Australia from an isolated island continent inhabited by Indigenous Australians to the commencement of occasional contact with visitors from the outside world, to the point where we started to become a confident player on the world stage, would be an impressive start. To help you, we have compiled a thumbnail sketch of the fundamentals of Australian history. One can recognize FOUR PERIODS. Some of these overlap.
1. BEFORE ANY OF OUR HISTORY WAS WRITTEN DOWN the Original Australians lived here for more than 40.000 years. They may be the oldest continuous population in the world. Many hunted and gathered for their livelihood, some lived in semi-permanent villages. They arrived here from the North, group after group and occupied the continent. Occasionally they had visits from their northern neighbours, who came and went in canoes or other boats. These visits are apparently not linked to the arrival of those Europeans who permanently settled here to help make Australia as we know it today. Our knowledge of these visits are not based on written history but on limited archaeological evidence and Aboriginal traditions, and consequently are imprecisely dated, do neither specify names of individual people who landed here or of their vessels, nor the exact location where they may have landed.
Some, like the visits of Makassans, may have occurred over a long period and continued into the next period. They too will have brought home stories that were passed on to other neighbours and other travellers, thereby feeding the legend that there was a great land 'down under'.
2. THE AUSTRALIAN MARITIME CONTACT PERIOD is a most exciting but not well known period, starting in 1606, when the first European mariners sailed into Australian water, recording their observations of this land and the residents they encountered. Every Australian should know the name of Willem Janszoon and his ship the Duyfken, the first recorded ship and crew to chart an Australian coast as well as the first to meet with Aboriginal people. All Australians should also know the name of Louis Vaez de Torres and his ships San Pedro and Los Tres Reyes that sailed through Torres Strait later in 1606. Both Janszoon and Torres made the world aware of our northern coast, even though they did not realize the extent of the land they had stumbled upon. Although 1606 marks the beginning of Australian written history another 52 European ships from a number of nations would make contact and add to the mapping of our coasts by 1770. Most of these were merchant ships, 41 of them from the (Netherlands) United East Indies Company (VOC) and included the ships Zeehaen and Heemskerk of Abel Janszoon Tasman's 1642 first voyage to our land. He established in 1644 that our continent was an island with a north, west and south coast and, logically, an east coast. An Australian state has been named after him. Tasman has this in common with Queen Victoria. The names of most of these early mariners, their ships, what they observed, and when, are certainly well recorded. Consequently names like Dirck Hartog, Pieter Nuyts, Willem De Vlamingh, Francisco Pelsaert must be considered important ones in Australia’s history. The subsequent charting of much of our east coast was carried out in 1770 by Englishman Captain James Cookin his ship Endeavour. Cook confirmed that Tasman had been correct in his conclusion that Australia was an island continent . Cook relied on the accumulated knowledge contained in the maps and journals of earlier mariners to find the east coast. Subsequently the final outline of the coast of Australia, including the realisation that Tasmania was a separate island, was detailed at the beginning of the Colonial Era by mariners such as Bass, Flinders and Baudin, the first two of these sailing from their 'home' base Sydney, Baudin from France.
3. THE COLONIAL ERA, includes the exploratory expeditions into the interior and the slow and often painful contact history on land. It starts with the arrival of the first fleet on the 26 January 1788, in Sydney, lead by Arthur Phillip, to establish a penal colony. This was the main reason for the initial British settlement. That 'start of colony date' now marks Australia Day. During this period colonies were established around Australia, a process often marked by conflict and struggle. Each colony had its own heroes and key events, many of which have become part of national history. It was during this period that many of our towns and cities begin to appear on our maps.
4. AUSTRALIA SINCE FEDERATION, begins with the establishment of the Commonwealth of Australia in 1901 as an independent nation. (Note it was not an 'end of the colony' where the colonists returned to the home country and left the land to the indigenous people as later happened elsewhere). Shortly after women gained the right to vote. Australia “came of age” through its involvement in World War I, particularly with the Anzacs landing at Gallipoli in 1915. Following World War II, in which Australia came under threat from Japan, massive numbers of migrants arrived to make Australia their home. They have had a profound influence in shaping the modern Australia. Another landmark was the constitutional recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders in a referendum in 1967. In 2001 we commemorated the Centenary of Federation. This most recent period embraces the lives and times of our grandparents, our parents and ourselves. Therefore we are part of history, we are making history, and in 2006 we will be commemorating our history
Edits by Auriong
What are the opinions on the recent edits by Auriong (vide here)? My stance is that they are not worth their while; any benefit that may be gained from the depictions is immediately detracted from by the sheer monstrosity of their organisation. Furthermore, I don't see any need for it, particularly in this article.--cj | talk 11:30, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- No objection necessarily to the content but the formatting is probably over the top. The maps need ot be better integrated into the text rather than a table. They probably need to appear only once and in the right article.--A Y Arktos\talk 12:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think that the maps are great, probably the best article for them is European exploration of Australia. -- Chuq 12:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Australian Collaboration
The collaboration covers the entire History of Australia series. If you contribute to other articles in the series as part of the collaboration, please list them below to ensure they are reported at the end of the fortnight. --Scott Davis Talk 00:35, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I've started by cutting the chronological series up as decided earlier. We now have History of Australia before 1788, History of Australia (1788-1850), History of Australia (1851-1900), History of Australia (1901-1945) and History of Australia since 1945. I've not moved any of the external links or references across, although since none of the references were pinpoint-style I haven't broken anything. It'd be nice now to a) get the links and references and such transferred to their proper new articles, and b) to create lead sections and such for the new articles. Rebecca 01:22, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
- The "old articles" were History of Australia before 1901 and History of Australia since 1901, just to help people find what they had that needs to be moved. I've put a banner and explanantion at the top of pre-1901, and deleted the sections that had clearly been moved out. --Scott Davis Talk 01:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
The series was WP:ACOTF from 2 July 2006 to 16 July 2006
- about 8 contributors made about 28 edits to the main article, plus edits and restructuring of the chronological series
- See how the summary article changed
--Scott Davis Talk 15:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
May I ask, about the discovery of Australia, was there not French Explorers coming into Australia but Australia was already claimed by the British Settlement?
Map Inaccurate
The changing map in the middle of the page is inaccurate. In 1859 when Queensland was established, its western border was at 141 degrees east - which was a continuation of the NSW border. In 1862 the border was moved west to 138 degrees east - that is its current position. I suggest the map be deleted or replaced which an accurate one. There are other not insignificant changes which the map omits, however, on this point it clearly shows the wrong border with the date at 1859.Alan Davidson 13:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
- I have alerted the authors, Chuq for the original map and Astrokey44 for the animation. --Scott Davis Talk 14:33, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
- Interesting, I'm sure I remember that border being in the correct position before. Maybe my source was correct but I made a graphical transcription error when creating my version. I'll endeavour to fix it, though I may not get around to it soon, feel free to either have a go yjurself, or hassle me about it again in the future. -- Chuq 11:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- After a little research, I believe there should be 13, not 6 maps to represent the changes. In fact there were more - but a couple occurred during the same year. I have placed the correct history on the page. 60.226.76.41 01:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- I have updated it to include these, except for New Zealand since it is not already shown on the map, and it is the history of Australia after all. --Astrokey44 05:42, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- The map is excellent, so I have changed the corresponding text. However, as New Zealand was part of NSW until 1840, it is part of the history. Alan Davidson 22:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- The new map is very good. But I believe there should be three (or four) more iterations. First it should show New Zealand; although not part of Australia now, it was part of New South Wales until 1840. I would thus include the islands of New Zealand from the beginning - in yellow - and then change it to its own colour in 1840. Second, In 1846 there was a colony of North Australia from February until December. Although short in time it did exist. Third (and fourth) in 1926 the Northern Territory was divided into North Australia and Central Australia. This was reversed in 1931.Alan Davidson 09:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
- It seems, from Declaration of the Independence of New Zealand, that New Zealand was only part of New South Wales until 1835. There are other Australian territories also, such as Territory of Papua (1902-49, and possibly part of Queensland briefly in 1883), Territory of New Guinea (1920-49), Territory of Papua and New Guinea (1949-72) and maybe the Australian Antarctic Territory, plus islands such as Norfolk Island. By the way the map on [3] describes the area between South Australia and Western Australia near the nullabor plain 1837-59 as 'no mans land' - is this correct or was it part of New South Wales? I am working on the other changes.. --Astrokey44 11:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- To be entirely accurate the following would need to be added for the mainland territories. 1911 - the Federal Capital Territory (FCT) is established. 1915 - the Jervis Bay Territory is added to the Federal Captial Territory. 1938 - The FCT has its name changed to the Australian Captial Territory. 1989 - Jervis Bay Territory is separated from the ACT to form its own separate Territory.Alan Davidson 09:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
- In relation to the comment that NZ was only part of NSW until the Declaration of Independnce of 1835 - I think that declaration made the position muddy. I doubt that the British colonial office would have recognised it. Indeed in 1839 there were new letters patent making NZ part of NSW; in part to clarify the position. Perhaps that was even a significanr factor in the people of NZ wanting certain status - which led to the 1840 treaty. I think it is best to leave the islands of NZ as part of NSW until 1840. Alan Davidson 09:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- I have remade it to include New Zealand, and some of the other changes suggested at the failed fpc --Astrokey44 02:01, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent work!--cj | talk 02:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Looks great! I almost didn't want to mention it after all the work you have done, but wasn't PNG a territory of Australia at some stage? -- Chuq 02:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks! yes... actually this is the short version. I made a long one with PNG and the other territories shown, but the thumbnail has trouble displaying. --Astrokey44 10:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Looks great! I almost didn't want to mention it after all the work you have done, but wasn't PNG a territory of Australia at some stage? -- Chuq 02:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent work!--cj | talk 02:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I have remade it to include New Zealand, and some of the other changes suggested at the failed fpc --Astrokey44 02:01, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I feel like I am stirring the pot, but what about Macquarie Island and Lord Howe Island :) -- Chuq 01:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- I thought about including Macquarie Island because it was interesting that it was transferred from NSW to Tassie in 1890, but it is practically uninhabited, and would be distracting. Lord Howe Island doesnt really need singling out - it would be like other kiioiikkk etc, and it doesnt have an ISO 3166-1 code, unlike the other territories shown. --Astrokey44 00:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- It looks absolutely fantastic. However, in 1863 the land annexed to South Australia (now known as the Northern Territory) became part of South Australia. Indeed from 1901 until 1911 the citizens had representatives in the lower house and the Senators also represented them. Today the Northern Territorians who want statehood point out that they lost their state rights in 1911 and became second calss citizens. What I mean is that South ustralia is one all the way to Darwin. Alan Davidson 11:29, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- but it was often called the northern territory of south australia [4]. I did make them the same colour, what if I took out the line but left the writing "northern territory", or changed it to 'northern territory of south australia'? --Astrokey44 12:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- My understanding is that it was colloquially refered to as the northern territory (small 'n' and small 't') and only formally become the Northern Territory ('N' 'A') in 1911. I think the whole area was South Australia. There are some maps which refer to it as the northern territory of South Australia - but for all purposes, voting rights etc, it was part of South Australia. There is a map from the National Archives showing this. Alan Davidson 13:05, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I have seen it depicted like that before. I have changed them to show an enlarged South Australia. It does make it easier to see that NT was part of SA then; otherwise you might assume it was separate. --Astrokey44 02:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- I showed the map to a colleague who, as a Queenslander, pointed out that Queensland Day is 6 June as that is apparently the founding date. The Wikipedia page agrees with that date. Your date is 10 December. Alan Davidson 03:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- I noticed differences with the dates the colonies were founded: I think that it is some give the date the letters patent was authorised (in Britain), some give the date the letters patent was actually published in Australia when the colony was proclaimed - I think this is how it worked: they authorise the colony in England (6 June 1859 for Queensland) but it is not actually proclaimed until the documents reach Australia (see [5] - Sir George Bowen arrived on 10 December 1859 to proclaim the colony. I gave it as 10 December because that is what nationmaster gave it. I may switch it to 6 June since that is the more known date, but with some of them, for instance, South Australia, the date everyone remembers is the foundation day - South Australian letters patent authorised 18 Feb 1836, but Proclamation Day is December 28, 1836 --Astrokey44 04:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- This also applies to decisions to move borders etc. - which date should be used? --Astrokey44 02:41, 30 May 2007 (UTC):
- I noticed differences with the dates the colonies were founded: I think that it is some give the date the letters patent was authorised (in Britain), some give the date the letters patent was actually published in Australia when the colony was proclaimed - I think this is how it worked: they authorise the colony in England (6 June 1859 for Queensland) but it is not actually proclaimed until the documents reach Australia (see [5] - Sir George Bowen arrived on 10 December 1859 to proclaim the colony. I gave it as 10 December because that is what nationmaster gave it. I may switch it to 6 June since that is the more known date, but with some of them, for instance, South Australia, the date everyone remembers is the foundation day - South Australian letters patent authorised 18 Feb 1836, but Proclamation Day is December 28, 1836 --Astrokey44 04:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
| colony/event | authorised/letters patent | founded/proclaimed/published |
|---|---|---|
| NSW | 25 April 1787 [6] | 26 January 1788 |
| Tas | 14 June 1825[7] | 3 Dec 1825 |
| WA | 14 May 1829 [8] | Perth: 11 June, Swan River Colony: 18 June 1829 [9] |
| SA | 19 Feb 1836 [10] | December 28, 1836 |
| North Australia | 17 February 1846, revoked in December 1846 | 30 January 1847, orders arrived to abandon settlement 15 April 1847. |
| Vic | 5 August 1850 [11] | 1 July 1851 |
| Qld | 6 June (Queensland Day) 1859 [12] | 10 December 1859 |
| Qld boundary moved west | 13 March 1862[13] or 12 April 1862 [14] | 23 June 1862 |
| NT annexed to SA | 6 July 1863[15] | ? |
- I think the new map is an improvement. Why don't you put it on the page - although I am unsure whether it should be the long or short version. Alan Davidson 05:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
- Alright, I put the short one up. perhaps it works better as a thumbnail? --Astrokey44 10:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
- I think the map meeds to be bigger than a thumbnail. Perhaps at least as big as the one on this page. Alan Davidson 12:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, I have increased it. By the way, here's something we haven't covered yet: South Australia-Victoria border dispute - the South Australian/Vic border was proclaimed at the 141st meridian in 1836, but is now a little west of that. When would this change legally have occured? --Astrokey44 11:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
- Talk of New Zealand as part of NSW before 1840 is flawed. The Governor was considered 'responsible' for British citizens in it, but it was not part of the Colony, as it was not part of the British Empire at all. The reason for the confusion is presumably the prescence of a British Resident, under the command of the Governor of NSW, but this official was merely an ambassador, not an arm of colonial government.
- The fact that the NSW government did not take an interest in the New Zealand islands does not change the fact (stated in many history texts) that NZ was part of NSW until 1840. Perhaps the Declaration of Indepedence in 1835 changed this, but the British view was redeclared in 1839. It was this in part which led to the formation as a separate colony over the following two years. Interestingly, (as a parallel) the area now known as the Northern Territory was part of NSW until 1863 when it became part of South Australia. Notwithstanding the fact that the NSW government made no attempt to send anyone to the NT, or to deal in any way with the area, it was still regarded as part of NSW. In 1863 there were zero settlements on the NT other than the indigenous population. Alan Davidson 15:33, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
- How can NZ have been part of New South Wales when NZ was explicitly considered outside the British Empire (of which NSW was a subdivision). Imperial Statutes in 1817, 1823, 1828 acknowledged this. This is different from NT which was claimed as part of the British Empire, even though that claim was only on paper.
- The fact that the NSW government did not take an interest in the New Zealand islands does not change the fact (stated in many history texts) that NZ was part of NSW until 1840. Perhaps the Declaration of Indepedence in 1835 changed this, but the British view was redeclared in 1839. It was this in part which led to the formation as a separate colony over the following two years. Interestingly, (as a parallel) the area now known as the Northern Territory was part of NSW until 1863 when it became part of South Australia. Notwithstanding the fact that the NSW government made no attempt to send anyone to the NT, or to deal in any way with the area, it was still regarded as part of NSW. In 1863 there were zero settlements on the NT other than the indigenous population. Alan Davidson 15:33, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
It is true, that there was a period, between New Zealand's official induction into the British Empire (October 2 1840), and its proclamation as a seperate Crown Colony (in November 1840), but this period is only slightly over a month... The confusion derives, I suppose, from the fact that pre-1840, the NSW Governor was expected to keep an eye on the actions of British in NZ (Much as an Australian ambassador to a foreign country is expected to aid Australian nationals in that country). As the Elizabeth Affair (1831- I think), for example, showed, the NSW authorities had no legal right to even charge British nationals for crimes committed in NZ. Furius
The stolen generation
In the context of general history of Australia - this section seems out of place. Wouldn't it be better to have "Relations with Indigenous population" or something like that. There were serious murders, a massacre and eradication of the Tasmanian aborigines which could be mentioned together. The stolen generation is a part of the bigger picture. 60.226.76.41 04:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC) adding to the crisis... aborigines had the place healthy until the rich men and women put them to slavery. there is the reason for all of the murder if put together. sure some of the aborigine families struggled but you couldn't just take their children without them having a say. what happened to the decloration of independence. sure it wasn't written but we all knew better our world could have changed it could be peaceful, just think what would you do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bergus mcfloyyd (talk • contribs) 13:37, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
The first thing I'd do, if I wanted my opinion to be taken seriously, would be to write in complete sentences. Then I would re-read what I was referring to to make sure I hadn't embarassed myself by misunderstanding it. User:60.226.76.41|60.226.76.41 specifically referred to the eradication of the Tasmanian aborigines, indicating that the violence was not all one way. FYI, pre-agricultural societies are NOT generally peaceful or particularly healthy, I suggest you do some research on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.143.129.88 (talk) 13:18, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Recently found data
According to this book by Peter Trickett, Australia was first sighted by the portuguese in 1522, 250 years before the Dutch.
Here are more news links for sources [16] if anyone wishes to add this, please do. I am going on a trip, so... :) -Pikolas 10:18, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- We have an article about this, see Theory of Portuguese discovery of Australia --Astrokey44 10:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Stolen generation Impact
Re: that the stolen generation had " a major impact on the Indigenous population" . Have added a citation-required as there is no qualification/clarification or documented source listed. It should be easy enough to find some documented evaluations on the impact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.178.199.79 (talk) 13:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
- Added a link to the Bringing Them Home report conclusion which briefly discusses the impact - there's more detail in the body of the report itself. Although many of the figures in the report are thought to have been exaggerated, the impact is not really debated. Icarus78 06:31, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Vandalism
This article seems to be quite a popular target for vandals. Shouldn't this article be protected or locked in some way? Ryan Albrey (talk) 04:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
The following unsigned passage had been inserted at the end of the article, under See Also:
"Opposition leader Brendan Nelson raised many points following the official appology delivered to the aboriginal population of Australia by Prime minister Kevin Rudd. Brendan Nelson supporting Kevid Rudd & the goverments appology voiced many Australian feelings following the controversy of the stolen generation, stateing it was conducted with good intention despite its wrong doing. Many facts are debated and are unavailable due to poor records. The appology is stiring new problems as the facts of British settlement is brought to the search light once agian. Many Australians who felt shame by their ancestors actions, are now confused by the released facts that the genocide of aboriginals was in fact due to introduced flues and viruses that the aboriginal had little or no immunity to. Australians feeling guilt now realize that the genocide they feel blame for, was done without knowledge or intention and more importantly without malice. It is estimated that 50% of the aboriginal population died by the introduction of diseases they had not seen before, smallpox, chickenpox, syphillis etc. The appology has done as much damage as good some Australians feel. The common Australian had been raised to believe they are, were responsible for acts such as genocide, massacres and allround poor treatment of aboriginals. With genocide now being disputed by public awareness & real evidence, the massacres are also being questioned. It has been raised that more white Australians died in acts of violence from Aboriginals than Aboriginals from white settlers. Historians show an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 aboriginals died in acts of violence from white settlers & some 3000 whites in acts of violence from Aboriginals. These figures are now being heavily investigated by interested parties on both sides of the argument. The fact the common Australian believed he/she was responsible for the massacre of an estimated 150,000 to 300,000 aboriginals is sadly coming to an end. Other facts, such as white settlers hung for acts of violence & acts of death agianst the then Aboriginal population, enforced by laws with many records to support, are raising new questions by young Australians. The fact that the Australian goverment spent 3.5 billion dollars last year on Aboriginals has stirred new questions by multi cultural Australian tax payers as well as white Australians. The Aboriginal population an estimated 454,963. This would mean each Aboriginal family of 2 adults and 2 children received 31,000 dollars in support last year alone."
I regard this as a rambling racist diatribe which makes no contribution to an article on Australian history, so I have removed it. Peter Bell (talk) 08:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- I apologise about that. I'm using Huggle to monitor vandalism, and when I came across the article and saw a large amount of content removed without an explanation, I reverted the edit, thinking it was vandalism. I apologise for this. Steve Crossin (talk) 08:37, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- I suppose the only fact that could be used with references, is the impact of dissease of the native population. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 04:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
Black Thursday
Anyone know more of this? http://romseyaustralia.com/fire1851.html 6 Feb 1851, seems to be the first somewhat recorded bushfire since settlement/invasion or what you want to call it. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 04:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
"Dutch" explorers
Any objections on changing it to "explorers from the Netherlands"? Dutch is ambiguous in that it can refer to any group who speak Dutch as a native language - and not just those who are from the Netherlands. -- De novo (talk) 11:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Problems
Dear colleagues, I visited this article by chance, and found myself removing common-term links and noticing a lot of choppy, stubby paragraphing. I believe it is also seriously under-referenced. This is not my area, but I wonder whether a team of editors might be interested in conducting a working party on this article and its offspring. Tony (talk) 08:20, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
- We had a collaboration on it a couple of years ago when we divided it up into the present sub-articles, but it wasn't too successful. It'd be great if we could get a few more eyes onto it, but no one's managed yet. Rebecca (talk) 04:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Second paragraph
I haven't contributed to this article, but stumbled across it recently. I really think paragraph 2; "Written history of Australia began in 1606, when Pedro Fernandes de Queirós, a Portuguese navigator sailing for the Spanish Crown, reached there in 1606... " needs major reworking. It's quite misleading and clumsy as it stands.--Nickm57 (talk) 23:02, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
- Which I have now done.--Nickm57 (talk) 09:15, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
- Feel free to go ahead on this one. We've had issues practically ever since this article was written with cranks pushing their theories of discovery of Australia; if you think anything that area is bollocks, feel free to fix it up, as long as it's well-sourced. Rebecca (talk) 12:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- Which I have now done.--Nickm57 (talk) 09:15, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
European Discovery
Why is European discovery only discussed in the introduction, where it is chronologically misplaced and misleading? Surely it merits its own section here with a link to the main article?--Jack Upland (talk) 09:12, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- I agree - and have moved it without changing too much. (The unsourced section on the Chinese map/jesuit priest story I have deleted however - this appears to belong to Gavin Menzies theory)--Nickm57 (talk) 22:40, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Rewrite of Jan 2010
I have rewritten several sections of this page, particularly the sections dealing with Aborigines and early exploration of Australia, which were in desperate need of citations. I have used the term Aborigine/s in preference to "Indigenous Australians" for reasons explained on the Australian Aborigines page. Theres still a bit more to do.--Nickm57 (talk) 12:19, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
- I should have added, I have read the 2006 discussion above and am aware this page was intended as an introduction to more detailed slabs of Australian history.--Nickm57 (talk) 12:25, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
What's wanted in this article?
Hi Rebecca, perhaps we could have an open discussion about what this page does and does not need? I'm not particularly fussed about your revert, but I actually don't understand what you mean by "introduces colossal undue weight issues," in reference to the para I had just added. About this page as a whole- to be frank, I was attracted to write because its wild inaccuracies were quite embarrasing.(eg Quiros sighted Australia) Large sections still look like they were written by a form 3 student (no offence intended to any 14 year old Wikipedians )eg "A Gold rush began in Australia in the early 1850s, and the Eureka Stockade rebellion in Ballarat in 1854 was an early expression of nationalist sentiment..." So what is this page meant to be? --Nickm57 (talk) 00:45, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
- Anyone? any guidance about the extent of the article?--Nickm57 (talk) 08:40, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- This page could certainly do with a lot of work - we've historically had a bit of trouble on Wikipedia with these broad general articles, and the History of Australia series has never been particularly good. You got reverted because you introduced a whopping great swathe of content espousing the fringe views of Keith Windschuttle, which was unacceptable; however, I certainly take your point on some of the later content, and if you choose to direct your energies there I can guarantee they'll be welcomed with open arms. Rebecca (talk) 12:27, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- Have had a bit of a shuffle of images but ...hmmm... I dont know.--Nickm57 (talk) 10:54, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
No mention of Federation in 1901
This article seems to gloss over the date of Federation for the Australian territories. Anyone care to insert this in? 220.253.84.177 (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- Yep, another dollop of critical history missing! I had a go.--Nickm57 (talk) 11:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- This series' coverage of federation is generally terrible, so again, any improvements would probably be very much welcomed. At some point, we really need to split these down into smaller time periods, as most other Western countries have done on Wikipedia; something like a History of Australia (1880-1901), covering federation and the struggles of that period in detail would be very useful to have. Rebecca (talk) 12:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for feedback.--Nickm57 (talk) 22:18, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- This series' coverage of federation is generally terrible, so again, any improvements would probably be very much welcomed. At some point, we really need to split these down into smaller time periods, as most other Western countries have done on Wikipedia; something like a History of Australia (1880-1901), covering federation and the struggles of that period in detail would be very useful to have. Rebecca (talk) 12:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
- Yep, another dollop of critical history missing! I had a go.--Nickm57 (talk) 11:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
An Editor needed
Having reread this, after a break from contributing to it, I think a fairly thorough edit is now needed. What do others think? Rebecca you have been associated with this page since the start - do you want to have a go? --Nickm57 (talk) 06:46, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Semi-Protection needed?
The majority of changes to this article seem to be vandalism. What do people think about semi-protection to deter anon users of the LOL brigade? It seems a pity that more time gets expended on reverting it than finishing it!--Nickm57 (talk) 10:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
- I agree - I've semi-protected the article for a week (which should take us beyond school holidays, which is probably the cause of the current increase in vandalism in this and other Australia-related articles). Nick-D (talk) 10:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Under the heading "The War" The Kuttabul is referred to as a "troop transport". In the Kuttabul article it says,
- "After the outbreak of World War II, Kuttabul was requisitioned by the RAN, and moored at the Garden Island naval base to provide accommodation for Allied naval personnel whle they awaited transfer to their ships"
So it appears that transport is innacurate as it was moored to be used as accomodation. Transport makes it sound like a large vessel, though it's passenger capacity was 2,250. --220.101 (talk) \Contribs 07:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
- Good catch - I've changed this to 'accommodation vessel' which I hope is OK. Nick-D (talk) 08:09, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me. I just wasn't certain that it hadn't been used as a troop transport, which if it moved about with troops onboard, it would be, 'technically'. But it sounds like Kuttabul was tied up for the duration till sunk.
- I am wondering how many were onboard when it sank? and what it's accomodation capacity was? Thinking perhaps 200? ≈ a tenth of it's seated capacity? --220.101 (talk) \Contribs 19:12, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, I believe that Kuttabul was only used as an accommodation ship. As a harbour ferry she wouldn't have been well suited to transporting personnel outside of Sydney Harbour. Nick-D (talk) 23:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me. I just wasn't certain that it hadn't been used as a troop transport, which if it moved about with troops onboard, it would be, 'technically'. But it sounds like Kuttabul was tied up for the duration till sunk.
emil rulz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.161.72 (talk) 09:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Unnecessary section, article reads like textbook
The section on "peaceful settlement or bloody conquest" is completely unnecessary in what is supposed to be an outline of our history. such political debates need to be left out of it.
look at the US, canada history articles to see how these should be written.
its not supposed to be some left wing political commentary of the history of australia, its just supposed to be an outline of the history of australia.
it should be arranged in the sections (eras) on the top right hand table
the 1945 - present section needs to be greatly expanded upon and broken up - there is more on the depression years than everything since 1945 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saruman-the-white (talk • contribs) 08:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry - completely disagree re comments about "peaceful settlement or bloody conquest." Where history is contentious, WP needs to acknowledge this, as it does in numerous other articles. This section does that and mentions a few of the key historians who contribute to both povs in the "History wars" debate. Could it be tidied up - sure, the last two paras don't sit specially well, and the third last, while appropriately mentioning Windshuttle, could do with some rewriting in my view.
- I agree entirely about the post 1945 section and had it on my list of to do things. I have written quite a bit here <1945 but got tired of reverting schoolboy vandalism and lost interest. Why don't you have a go? This page apparently gets 1,000 + hits per day!Nickm57 (talk) 13:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Images
I like Biatch's improvements. A thought - with many of the new images, combined, do they give a "conflict heavy" impression? For example, while Eureka is important (and it has a page of its own), it was not experienced by the vast majority of gold miners of the C19th, even in the colony of Victoria. I mean - do we lend a inappropriate emphasis if most of images are about conflict? Just a thought. Castle Hill similarly Nickm57 (talk) 23:14, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
Request for semi-protection
It seems ridiculous, but the end of each school year in Australia seems to coincide with increased anon vandalism. Its easy to revert of course - but often things get lost in the process. Should this be semi-protected again for three or so weeks? (as per April 2010)Nickm57 (talk) 05:45, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Chinese exploration
Does anyone has more sources about the statement in ABC:
- "In 2003 Chinese President Hu Jintao, addressing a joint sitting of the Australian Parliament, repeated the claim[which?] that the Chinese had discovered and settled Australia three centuries before Captain Cook."
Thanks in advance. Bennylin (talk) 15:56, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
- Well he certainly did say it. It appears to relate to the fringe theories of English writer Gavin Menzies. As you possibly know, Chinese Government authorities controlling national antiquities do not make this claim, neither do most Chinese historians. I suggest you see the Gavin Menzies page and its talk page page for more info.Nickm57 (talk) 21:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Contemporary History
Ive started to add some more to the post ww2 section. With its many and conflicting sources, contemporary history can be difficult - so other contributions are needed. A good edit down of the whole article is probably needed too at some stage. I'll also continue adding over the next few days.Nickm57 (talk) 23:46, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
Managing the article
Its a good time to think about the length of the article as its now quite long. Its been suggested it needs to be cut up again. I know there are short articles on slices of Aust hist already, though some haven't been worked on much recently. Id be interested to hear some experienced opinions. Nickm57 (talk) 06:15, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
- The length of the article (about 138kb, including references) probably isn't excessive considering the article's topic. In my view the article's main problem is the balance accorded to different topics and the low quality of some of the prose. All the quotations could be removed if you're looking for some things to cut - they don't add much value. Nick-D (talk) 06:36, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
- Are there any particular sections you feel carry too much weight, or too little, or need particular work otherwise?Nickm57 (talk) 00:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
- There seems to be way too much on World War II and the Vietnam War (and I'm writing as someone with a major interest in military history!) and not enough on Australia before European settlement or events since the 1960s. Nick-D (talk) 00:15, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree with your points. I also suggested some time ago it needed an edit down at least, problem seems finding someone willing!!Nickm57 (talk) 09:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
- There seems to be way too much on World War II and the Vietnam War (and I'm writing as someone with a major interest in military history!) and not enough on Australia before European settlement or events since the 1960s. Nick-D (talk) 00:15, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
- Are there any particular sections you feel carry too much weight, or too little, or need particular work otherwise?Nickm57 (talk) 00:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
- Hi Bidgee - have you read the comments above about managing the article? Its great that this page is getting lots of post Christmas interest but some sections are still quite clunky. I feel the section about whether Australia was likely to be invaded or not in WW2 is far too detailed for this article. Similarly, Monash's views on the use of troops in WW1. (As I was the editor who put them in, I feel some sadness about removing them, but I think as it grows in scope, its necessary!) Yes - not a copy edit.CheersNickm57 (talk) 05:11, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
- Nah - no specific removal/extermination imho - just get it out into sub articles I say - theres gotta be somewhere the stuff can be re-allocated :) SatuSuro 05:15, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
Semi protection needed?
I wonder whether this page should have some semi protection, to the end of the Australian school holidays at least. It cops a hammering at this time of year. Nickm57 (talk) 23:10, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Undue weight on Portuguese theory
JCRB, I hope you have not just returned to wikipedia to resume what appears to be an attempt to push the same POV again, discussed ad nauseum on the Australia talk page in August-Sept last year. However, your edits here and on Theory of Portuguese discovery of Australia seem to indicate you are. I suggest if you are serious about contributing again, you start off a) always logging in and b) bringing your suggestions to the talk page first. An awful lot of hard work and TLC has gone into improving this article over the last few months and I'm certain all editors feel they deserve the courtesy of discussion first.Nickm57 (talk) 12:24, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Bibliography
Australian history has a great scholarly literature, so I started Bibliography of Australian history, using the books in this article and also the bibliography I compiled for Citizendium at located here. The next step is to add schoalrly articles. Rjensen (talk) 09:09, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
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Bali Bombings
I find it strange that there is a big section about Australia's involvement in the war on terror and Afghanistan yet nothing about the 2002 Bali bombings. I would have though that given that 88 Australians died and that it was so close to our shores this as much if not moreso than the 9/11 attacks on the United States a pivotal factor in Australia's ongoing commitment to this war. --Biatch (talk) 02:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes I agree Bali Bombings should be included in the 21st century history section, who else agrees? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.189.200.75 (talk) 03:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
- I am inclined to disagree. It might belong in History of Indonesia, but it did not take place in Australia and did not involve the Australian state in a formal capacity. This is in contrast to the war in Afghanistan, which has involved Australia directly as a state, for over a decade, and concerns invocation of the ANZUS treaty. Even with that significance, it only rates five sentences (and the first two of those probably need to be trimmed down to one). There is also an explicit link 9the treaty) between 9/11 and Afghanistan - there is no such link between Bali and that conflict. hamiltonstone (talk) 03:50, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
- I agree it needs mention. The article is about the people and culture and experiences of Australia, and that episode was a significant event that everyone -- and the government-- paid attention to. Rjensen (talk) 06:13, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
White Stolen Generations
There is a section on the (Indigenous) Stolen Generation, but shoudn't also the White Stolen Generation be recognized here as well? White Stolen Generations --Collingwood26 (talk) 04:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- I have research experience in this field, and the short answer is absolutely not under the heading 'white stolen generation', but yes there could be coverage of the adoption practices involved. The term 'white stolen generation' is very contentious, used occasionally but rejected by many. The prevailing term used in this area is "forced adoption". The WP article also incorrectly attributes a phrase to a journalist that was used by a member of the audience at the community cabinet: "the same past illegal adoption practices..." They are not the same practices, and only in some cases were conducted under the same legislation (or legislative pretence). There is a debate about whether they were illegal in most cases (though certainly were ill-advised, even by standards of the time). This is a minefield. I'm happy to try and maker a contribution sometime, though not just now. hamiltonstone (talk) 05:29, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
It isn't contentious to call it the "white stolen generations", thats just silly. Many historians and media journalists have referred to it as Australia's forgotten stolen generation. When people think of the stolen generation they instantly think of the Aboriginals, the term white stolen generations was created to help distinguish it, although it was essentially the same practice. If you don't want to call it the White stolen generation, then why is it not contentious to call the Aboriginal one a stolen generation? I'm not accusing you of being racist, but your overtone is a tad hypocritical. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Collingwood26 (talk • contribs) 23:39, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- First, it is contentious for it to be the title of an encyclopedia article. It is not a term used by the Australian Institute of Family Studies, the Tasmanian Palriamentary Inquiry, the New South Wales Parliamentary Inquiry, the Australian Senate Inquiry, the Commonwealth Attorney General's Department, the Australian Capital Territory government, the Monash University research project, and so on and so on. The encyclopedia term would almost certainly be either "forced adoption" or "forced adoption in Australia". I will eventually get around to looking at a requested move for the page White Stolen Generation. The article could have within it text and references regarding the comparisons to the Stolen Generations.
- The term is also contentious amongst stakeholders for a number of reasons, but mainly because Aboriginal children were taken under the forced adoptions process, and calling it a white stolen generation suggests they are excluded from being recognised. There is also concern that it can undermine recognition of the stolen generation, or to put a racial dimension on an issue that is not racial in nature (forced adoption). I'm sorry, I can't identifty references around that point. Anyway, the main issue is that it is not the preferred encyclopedia term. Cheers, hamiltonstone (talk) 03:56, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
It would be helpful if further comments were made on the relevant article talkpage. Tigerboy1966 06:10, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Calling it the white stolen generation doesn't exclude Aboriginals from being recognized, on the contrary it is the other way around. For example when the apology to the stolen generations was made was there any reference to white mothers or children? No there wasn't, only Aboriginals and TSI were recognized. Thus this is why the term "white" stolen generation was created to help distinguish it. Even Aboriginals recognize the white stolen generation by the following: After the 2008 Apology to the Stolen Generation, Indigenous leader Max Dulumunmun Harrison, an elder of the Yuin people, helped bring it out last November, when he wrote: “I applaud the Prime Minister’s apology to our mob, but what about the white stolen generation that suffered the same fate? I know many white people who went through the same pain. So why can’t this government do its healing again and apologise to the white stolen generation to bring closure to all this suffering?”[ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Collingwood26 (talk • contribs) 10:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- Per Tigerboy's comment, can we please keep this discussion on the talk page of the relevant article? I have been responding there, as are others. hamiltonstone (talk) 12:56, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Julia Gillard
Shouldn't Julia Gillard be given more of an introduction, maybe a picture of something. She is after all the first female pm of australia, we have a picture of the first pm of australia so why not the first female pm? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Collingwood26 (talk • contribs) 11:18, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think more text is needed - it does say she is the country's first female PM - but I do think there should be a photo for her, and we certainly don't need two photos from the 200 Olympics. I'll see what I can come up with. hamiltonstone (talk) 23:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes I agree, as she is the first female primeminister she definately should be shown on here. We should remove one of the 2000 Olympics photos and replace it with her portrait. Thanks!--Collingwood26 (talk) 03:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
WSG
This was discussed previously but nothing was done about it. I believe the White Stolen Generations should be mentioned here.--Collingwood26 (talk) 02:11, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Edit?
I vote to delete the part about Republicanism in Australia, and the Sydney Olympics. Sure both are historical but they aren't important enough to be mentioned on here.--Collingwood26 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- The question should be, how would deleting these sections improve the article ? I cannot see how this would improve it, except for making it slightly shorter--Nickm57 (talk) 08:00, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- these are important issues that have received a great deal of attention from rs. People not interested can easily skip over them--erasure would be a bad mistake. Republicanism remains a live issue and has its own article. The olympics have been the #1 device for letting the world know about the country and have been topics of major scholarly studies. People who want to understand Australian history will want to read them.Rjensen (talk) 19:20, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Murrawarri republic
Does the last sentence really belong in this article? We could hive it off to the article on Australian republicanism?
Unless I'm missing something, it seems to me the 'Murrawarri republic' is potentially nothing more than all those other cranky, like things of this nature I've seen come and go with no impact a thousand times before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.164.18.43 (talk) 13:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
Pre-1788 Colonization
Hello I am wondering whether or not this should be included, Dutch historian Van Zanden has written a book titled "The Lost White Tribes of Australia" which sits in several parts and claims that there is proof that the first settlement of Australia was made in 1656 which is well over 100 years before colonization is thought to have happenend.--Collingwood26 (talk) 02:30, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
- A self published text apparently, and a theory not supported by any one else. For other views about this and the 1834 Leeds Mercury newspaper report that it is based upon, see Marc Glasby's "West Australia Now and Then" [17] and Karen Severud Cook's "THE SECRET AGENDA OF WESTERN AUSTRALIAN EXPLORER, ROBERT DALE (1809-1853)" in The Globe No.54, p23-34, which can be read online for free if you apply for a (National Library of Australia) card online [18]. Henry Van Zanden is apparently an Australian writer and former teacher.Nickm57 (talk) 09:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
There is great lack of information in the Pre-1788 section. There must be scholarly investigations worth mentioning? At the very least there is the work done by Rex Gilroy. Factrules (talk) 23:10, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
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Mega-Tsunami 1500 AD
Hello once again, I was wondering should the mega-tsunami that hit Eastern Australia in the early 1500s be recorded on here?http://www.ancientdestructions.com/mega-tsunami-australia-new-zealand/--Collingwood26 (talk) 13:27, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
- Your link is broken; this one works. I'd like to see a more reliable source. Rivertorch (talk) 19:53, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
- Cosmogenic mega-tsunami in the Australia region: are they supported by Aboriginal and Maori legends? Edward A. Bryant, G. Walsh & D. Abbott
- Tsunami: terror from the sea Emma Young
- David Woodward ☮ ♡♢☞☽ 23:55, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Recent edits
I've just reverted the article back to its 30 March 2016 status to remove several paragraphs of lightly referenced material on Australian politics since 2007. The material was written in an unencyclopaedic tone, and much of it seemed to be its author's personal assessments. Nick-D (talk) 11:06, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Inclusion of Frontier Wars and Genocide
Hello, I was wondering if this page could be modified to be more reflective, descriptive, and respectful of Australia's history? Many wars, massacres, acts of dispossession, and death are not included in this predominant Post-Invasion accounting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Afterafairgo (talk • contribs) 09:19, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Bathurst
The article contains the following error
to the outright hostility of Pemulwuy and Windradyne of the Sydney region.
Windradyne was not 'of the Sydney region', but in the region of Bathurst 203.2 km (126.3 mi) away.
Montalban (talk) 01:42, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Malays/Indonesian 'discovery' pre-Janszoon??
I remember reading somewhere that Malays/Indonesians were know to have visited Australia before Europeans arrived. Is there any evidence for this? And if so surely it deserves a few lines in this history page.
Sdrawkcab (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)sdrawkcab
- There is an entire page on this - Makassan contact with Australia, but the evidence that it was pre-Janszoon is not conclusive. The page is linked from the end of the third paragraph.Nickm57 (talk) 22:20, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
- It's also mentioned in the main article of this page - that the contact happened about 1720 or later
Montalban (talk) 01:43, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
Copy edit required, unable to do it myself
Towards the end of the third paragraph of the section Great Depression the following sentence appears:
With multimillion-pound debts mounting, public demonstrations and move and counter-move by Lang and then Scullin, then Lyons federal governments, the Governor of New South Wales, Philip Game, had been examining Lang's instruction not to pay money into the Federal Treasury.
I suspect this needs to be split into two sentences. Probably a period after '...federal governments" and then a new sentence beginning "The Governor of New South Wales..." but I'm unsure if that's the correct thing to do. --bodnotbod (talk) 00:45, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Size split?
Split - Article is over 100 kB, and should be split out starting with "Colonization". Thoughts? Suggestions?--Jax 0677 (talk) 18:41, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- If we are going to split it, I suggest using the existing Australian History articles, (see list on the page) as the guide. The other articles are under-developed anyway.Nickm57 (talk) 20:35, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- splitting it up will only confuse readers who have to reassemble the entire article themselves from scattered pieces. We can assume our readers are intelligent enough to read the sections that interest them, and to skip all the other material. If someone wants to read the article from start to end, we can assume they are capable of allocating their time to do that. Rjensen (talk) 08:13, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
- I assume you are suggesting creating some daughter articles, and retaining a more concise "History of Australia"? The article is indeed too long, because there is excessive detail in some sections. hamiltonstone (talk) 22:55, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
- splitting it up will only confuse readers who have to reassemble the entire article themselves from scattered pieces. We can assume our readers are intelligent enough to read the sections that interest them, and to skip all the other material. If someone wants to read the article from start to end, we can assume they are capable of allocating their time to do that. Rjensen (talk) 08:13, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
- If we are going to split it, I suggest using the existing Australian History articles, (see list on the page) as the guide. The other articles are under-developed anyway.Nickm57 (talk) 20:35, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- Splitting is a bad idea. Some trimming and transfer to specific period articles makes more sense.Ozhistory (talk) 23:48, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not an expert in Australian history but I would venture to suggest the final para of the section Great Depression seems to be overly detailed about a cricketer and the horse Phar Lap. I suggest this could be cut to a couple of sentences if included at all. It seems to me rather out of place for a general national history article and would properly go in the sub-articles. --bodnotbod (talk) 00:56, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Does the article tell us what became of the Dutch colonies?
Forgive me if I've missed something, I've just completed - after many hours - reading and editing the whole article and can't bring myself to revisit any of it.
But I don't recall any part of the article telling us what happened to the Dutch colonies. It seemed like the Dutch and British had half the continent each for a while. Then I recall the British encroached on the Dutch parts. But I don't recall, for example, any resistance from Dutch colonists to the British seeming to eventually take over the whole continent. Did the British assimilate the Dutch? Did the Dutch just leave? I repeat, I apologise if all this is dealt with. If not, it would be a good thing to include. --bodnotbod (talk) 03:46, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
- There were no Dutch colonies.Nickm57 (talk) 06:16, 3 December 2016 (UTC)"Although various proposals for colonisation were made, notably by Pierre Purry from 1717 to 1744, none was officially attempted."Nickm57 (talk) 06:19, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
- Ah. Well, that would certainly explain it then, ha ha. :) Thank you. --bodnotbod (talk) 19:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
Emu-war
Greetings. Could anyone add a section dedicated to the Great Emu War waged in 1932?
--2001:4646:18D3:0:8434:303B:C136:D8E1 (talk) 21:58, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
- And how would that improve the article? There is already a page on it. Nickm57 (talk) 23:56, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
The Trihybrid Theory
Hi, I was reading about Aboriginal Australian history and came across this article which talks about 3 apparent migrations which occurred during Ancient Australia. Here's an excerpt.
There were three major waves of migration of quite different ancient people who came to the Australian continent from southeast Asia. More than 40,000 years ago, when sea levels were much lower and Australia, New Guinea and Tasmania comprised one landmass, called Sahul, the first to arrive were a slightly-built people of pygmoid stature with dark skin and very frizzy hair. They were Negritos (named after the Spanish "little negro"), and they provided the initial population for the whole of this Greater Australia. About 20,000 years ago, a second type of people arrived from Asia. These newcomers, called Murrayians, were comparatively lightly skinned, wavy-haired, stocky in build, with a lot of body hair. They drove the Negritos before them until the latter retreated to the highlands of New Guinea, the rainforests of North Queensland and to then ice-capped Tasmania. The Murrayians became the dominant population on the east coast of Australia, and the open grasslands and parklands of the south and west of the continent. Then, about 15,000 years ago, a third wave of hunter-gatherers arrived. They were comparatively tall, straight-haired and dark skinned, with very little body hair. Named Carpentarians, they colonised northern and central Australia.
Should this be included? This is the site: http://www.sydneyline.com/Pygmies%20Extinction.htm --Collingwood26 (talk) 08:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- No I dont think so. The appropriate place for Joseph Birdsell's theory is on the page about him, or a new page about the theory. There are also numerous easily available sources about the theory, including ones written by Birdsell himself, quite apart from controversial writer Keith Windschuttle's summary cited above. Nickm57 (talk) 21:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok thanks--Collingwood26 (talk) 02:20, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
- That doesn't make sense, though. Windschuttle is an odious white supremacist with an anti-Aboriginal agenda, no doubt. But Birdsell was a serious anthropologist who proposed a serious theory based on serious evidence, and there's no way to prevent bigots from instrumentalising one's theory in fallacious ways for nefarious ends. Political interests should not bias the evaluation of the evidence, nor keep Wikipedia from mentioning a theory, only because some interest groups may fear that the theory undermines or invalidates Aboriginal claims to their ancestral lands (even though it does no such thing, in view of how analogous facts don't invalidate land claims elsewhere in the world, such as Europe or Asia, either). Maybe due weight means that it should not be mentioned here, but in Aboriginal Australians or History of Indigenous Australians there's certainly a place for it. Birdsell's theory may be out of favour now, but it's not a crackpot idea and testable with genetic evidence, and I'm not even sure it (or some variant) has been conclusively falsified. Even as a historical theory, it still holds encyclopedic interest. Moreover, it is inherently more plausible to assume some sort of hybridisation rather than a single prehistorical wave of immigration and then no further immigration for 60,000 years until the 18th century. It's not impossible, but there's no particular reason to think so, and the opposite is at least equally possible, in view of what we know about changes in geography and climate. And crucially, the article already mentions genetic evidence for a prehistorical wave of immigration, 4000 years ago from South Asia, even if it seems to have been a minor one and doesn't specifically support or even vindicate Birdsell's theory, but it does effectively disprove the orthodox view that Aboriginal Australians have a single origin. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 11:32, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
Only insiders can edit this article?? Wikipedia:Dispute resolution to follow
@Skyring deleted every word I had added about colonisation and about sovereignty from the UK because of Dubious material and unreliable sources.
22:03, 12 February 2017 Skyring (talk | contribs) . . (285,015 bytes) (-10,202) . . (Dubious material and unreliable sources. Pls discuss on talk)
So every source I had cited was unreliable? Or was the revert edit really an excuse to revert the article to the point that its "owners" had it. Who owns this article? Is Wikipedia not an encyclopedia built collaboratively?
Does that mean "collaboration by a handful of insiders"? Peter K Burian (talk) 15:17, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- So let's discuss this on the Talk page as required by Wikipedia:Dispute resolution
- Many of the citations are to a Government of Australia document. Is that dubious?
- http://www.australia.gov.au/about-australia/australian-story/european-discovery-and-colonisation |title=European discovery and the colonisation of Australia - European mariners |author= |date=2015 |website=Government of Australia
- http://www.australia.gov.au/about-australia/australian-story/european-discovery-and-colonisation |title=European discovery and the colonisation of Australia - First Fleet and a British Colony |author= |date=2015 |website=Government of Australia
- And is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation a dubious source?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-12-07/australia27s_last_brick_of_nationhood/41892 |title=Australia's last brick of nationhood |last=Donovan |first=David |date=6 December 2010 |website=Australian Broadcasting Corporation |publisher=Australian Broadcasting Corporation
- And is Sydney Law School a dubious source?
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=984994 |title=The De-Colonisation of the Australian States, Paper No. 07/19 |last=Twomey |first=Anne |date=May 2007 |website=SSRN |publisher=Sydney Law School Research |access-date=12 February 2017 |quote=Statute of Westminster 1931, the Australian States remained 'self-governing colonial dependencies of the British Crown' until the Australia Acts 1986 came into force Peter K Burian (talk) 15:38, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- WP:DISPUTE Talk page discussion is a prerequisite to almost all of Wikipedia's venues of higher dispute resolution. If you wish at any time to request a Third Opinion (3O), use the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard (DRN), or open a request for mediation (RFM), you will be expected to show there has been talk page discussion of the dispute. Peter K Burian (talk) 15:42, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Calm down. This is Wikipedia. Nothing gets lost. We're discussing the problem now. What's this source, please? --Pete (talk) 18:09, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Could you avoid so much unnecessary formatting please Peter - bold, indenting, double spacing before adding your name etc. Please follow the conventions. It's quite hard to read otherwise. I also reject this complaint of "insiders" - it's frankly nonsense as I'm sure you now realise. I've written on this page too and although I'm pretty busy in real life I've watched what you were doing. Given your heavy dependence on online sources I wondered how thorough you were being. For example, why delete the reference to Kenneth McIntyre, the key theorist for the highly contentious Portuguese discovery theory? Admiral Arthur Phillip? I've never read a Historian use this title in relation to the British colonisation of Oz. Happy to provide further comments when I have time. Nickm57 (talk) 20:37, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
External links modified
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External links modified
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Terra Nullius
Removed from description of Bourke's Proclamation. He did not use the term. Feel free to check a transcript. The term Terra_nullius does not appear until 1888 or later, as stated in Wikipedia's own article http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Terra_nullius#First_use_of_the_term_Terra_Nullius Seasalt (talk) 02:45, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
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Real History of discover and exploration of Australia, whit all know sources and historic know facts ( and not same national dutch or english propaganda)
Trying to sell the theory of Dutch have been the first european to discovery Australia, its a completely unavailable theory. All know the portuguese have been the first european to reach it and discover it, to not talk about the maps and pictures of kangaroos, the remain of old fort and portuguese armament and stuck ships and in more of 200 words and names of natural australians derived from portuguese language( its the most powerful argument that English or dutch can´t advocate, because how much time it need to influence a different culture? Or australian indigenous learn and assimilate in a light speed, as no expedition and language portuguese courses next of dutch and english false and historic manipulated claim as the first european to do it have been taken). The Portugal never need to do big defense of that discover(as others as Cristovão Colombo, as a secret portuguese agent) and exploration because in time its not a land with technologies or any type of riches that justify the efforts to maintain it.And the treaty with Spain give to spain that part of World big discover, so Portugal never open make any public or revindicate it. About being the England to discover it, i really try to find but never find any old or today (commonwealth) maritime territory "discover" by british/or dutch as the first maritime route to it, all knows that Portugal lack of population and warpower it was used wisely from his old ally to simply conquer the discover portuguese territories with portuguese routes, and when Portugal remain an obstacle the English manage to "clean" any opposition to it as well know, for example the ultimate of rose map in Africa is one of the most public(because others have been used and not public admitted such piracy, mercenaries, murders, bribery, forge ...) clean of opposition portuguese or not. One thing is sure England conquer it, but not have been the first europeans to reach or exploring it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.93.5.251 (talk) 12:35, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia articles are not allowed to contain original research. All article content must be verifiable and cite reliable sources. The article does mention a theory of Portuguese discovery, and it appears to be quite adequately sourced. If you have a specific suggestion for improving the article and can supply reliable sources to support it, please say so. But be aware that talk pages are for discussing articles, not the topics behind the articles. RivertorchFIREWATER 15:43, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
- Unfortunately the expression here is so excruciating I struggle to understand what the writer means. I previously suggested this IP read some of the sources linked to relevant WP pages. Obviously that hasn't been done. Nickm57 (talk) 20:45, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
Some proposed changes to External links
 | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Per WP:ELNO point #8. |
Add link to National Museum of Australia timeline under 'External links'
I would like to propose adding a link to the National Museum of Australia's, Defining Moments in Australian history timeline. The National Museum of Australia's, Defining Moments in Australian history timeline is a great and reliable visual resource to understanding Australian History. As an employee of the Museum I am unable to edit the 'External links' myself, as I would be in breach of Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines.
Proposed edit: Under 'External links' please add a link to National Museum of Australia's, Defining Moments in Australian history timeline. Website and timeline URL listed below under 'References supporting change'
References supporting change:
Defining Moments in Australian History timeline URL: https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/defining-moments-timeline
National Museum of Australia, Defining Moments in Australian history URL: https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments 203.5.124.228 (talk) 05:00, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
Reply 03-JUN-2019
Edit request declined
- The proposed link requires that browsers attempting to access the content displayed there allow for the use of Javascript.
- Point #8 @ WP:ELNO recommends that links which require this to access content should not be used in External links sections.
Regards, Spintendo 05:43, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
Cleanup
Until 17th century, Australia was an unexplored place for the world. It was first sighted by the Dutch navigator, Willem Janszoon, in about 1606. In 1642, another Dutch navigator, Abel Tasman, explored many parts of Australia and New Zealand. Later on, in 1770, the British naval officer and explorer, Captain James Cook, sailed along the eastern coast of Australia and landed at the Botany Bay. He named the newly discovered land as New South Wales.
Political Division Today, Australia is divided into six self - governing states and two federal territories, like India's Union Territories which are centrally administered. The six self-governing states are - 1) Queensland 2) New South Wales 3) Victoria 4) South Australia 5) Western Australia 6) Tasmania The two centrally administered federal territories are Northern Territory and Australian Capital Territory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Premium Sites (talk • contribs) 07:41, 9 August 2020 (UTC) I will soon get around to fixing the 21st century history section, but I would also like to ask whether or not the section called 'Historiography' should be kept or should it be deleted. I feel that it should be deleted, this is meant to be a timeline of events not of personal opinions of history writers. I think it would be better to put it in a different article. I have also wondered if the Second Boer War should be added into this, as it was technically the first war to officially involve Australia and it was also the 3rd deadliest war for Australia. What do you guys think? --Collingwood26 (talk) 08:48, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hi Collingwood26. Yes I think the subsection on Historiography could go - it sits awkwardly under republicanism at the minute. I dont think we need any further reference to the Boer War. If needs be, it should have its own article. I also think the final section on Afghanistan needs to be hived off to its own article - its far too detailed. I think it's too easy to use wars as a type of bookmark in history. The reality is, most Australians are pretty far removed from the current Afghanistan conflict. CheersNickm57 (talk) 10:21, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, the material on Afghanistan is much too long. A paragraph would be appropriate. I agree that the historiography section should go (it's simultaneously too big a topic and of not enough interest to most people to include here). The whole article probably gives too much weight to the wars Australia has been involved in. Nick-D (talk) 10:42, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
- What are you doing Collingwood26? You seem to have deleted most of the previous section (inc Govt and current political context) on 21st Century Australia. Im reverting your most recent edit. Please discuss further here. ThanksNickm57 (talk) 10:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hi Collingwood26. Yes I think the subsection on Historiography could go - it sits awkwardly under republicanism at the minute. I dont think we need any further reference to the Boer War. If needs be, it should have its own article. I also think the final section on Afghanistan needs to be hived off to its own article - its far too detailed. I think it's too easy to use wars as a type of bookmark in history. The reality is, most Australians are pretty far removed from the current Afghanistan conflict. CheersNickm57 (talk) 10:21, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi I'm back, I have cleaned the 21st century section. I would like to add more like the Apology to the stolen generation etc. Sorry if I did something you didnt like. I don't think the Afghanistan section is too long I just wanted to help.--Collingwood26 (talk) 11:01, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
It looks like you reverted my edit, I was going to add all the parts from "Into the 21st century" into a more neater context. Please discuss?--Collingwood26 (talk) 11:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sure - I think the material on the contemporary political context of Australia should not have been deleted and replaced with material on 'The Centenary Medal' - what I would call "celebratory history." With Afghanistan, probably the first para expanded is enough.Nickm57 (talk) 11:17, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
I was going to make another article concerning gillard, stolen generation apology, and others. So you don't like the changes I made? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Collingwood26 (talk • contribs) 11:27, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Fine whatever, I made it look 100 times better and you go and revert everything to the crap before. Do it yourself then--Collingwood26 (talk) 11:35, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry you feel that way. Many editors, self included, have contributed to this article over the last year and Im certain all would agree that it can still be improved. But I don’t think they would accept your description of it as “crap” or that your recent edits made it 100 times better. Anyway, the point of this page is to discuss improvements to the article. If you intend to make a new article concerning Gillard etc, and delete it from this - or replace it with material on the Centenary Medal, the onus is on you to explain why.Nickm57 (talk) 12:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
As per discussion above, Ive deleted the section on historiography and cut down the section on Australia in Afghanistan. Sorry - could not work out who wrote these, else I would have invited them to comment directly first.Nickm57 (talk) 21:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Opening sentence
I found a lack of logic in the use of the "Commonwealth" (since 1901), the European settlers (since 1788), and the Indigenous peoples (up to 60,000 ago). I hope my edit, producing a simpler opening that doesn't require knowledge of the specialised colonial term "the Commonwealth", is OK. Tony (talk) 09:56, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
- History is the study of the past. Events occurring before the invention of writing systems are considered prehistory. I have rewritten the opening, removing the tautology ("The history of Australia" is the history..." - really?) and removing mention of things that clearly were not history. The prehistory of Australia - i.e. the events before people began writing them down - is covered well elsewhere and we cover it in summary in our first section. --Pete (talk) 17:11, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Changes to structure
Hello all
I have added new content for the political history from 1972 to present. I have also made some changes to the structure. Specifically, I have replaced the heading "Modern Australia emerging 1960s" with a heading Reform and reaction: 1972 to 1996. The previous heading, despite its title referencing the 1960s, mostly covered events from 1972 onwards. It also included subheadings for "culture and the new nationalism" which was mostly about South Australian cinema after the 1960s, and a subheading for "civil rights developments" which was very potted and also mostly about developments after the 1960s. I have given this material a more meaningful title and have moved it to the period covering 1960s to 2000. The material however still needs a major revision and expansion.
I have also changed the heading "21st Century" (which oddly started with events from December 2007) and replaced it with a more meaningful heading: Australia in a globalised world 1996-present. This covers events since the Hawke-Keating government initiated economic reforms embracing the globalised economy and greater engagement with the Asia-Pacific region. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 02:44, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
- Good work. Thanks. Nickm57 (talk) 05:13, 20 April 2021 (UTC)