Talk:Herbert (Family Guy)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Herbert (Family Guy) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Herbert (Family Guy) was a Media and drama good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 24, 2016	Good article nominee	Not listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 31, 2010.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that elderly Family Guy character Herbert's voice and design was inspired by a man that character creator Mike Henry met while working in a grocery store?

Comedy Mid‑importance

	Comedy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Comedy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of comedy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ComedyWikipedia:WikiProject ComedyTemplate:WikiProject ComedyComedy articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Animation: Family Guy Mid‑importance

	Animation portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Animation, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to animation on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, help out with the open tasks, or contribute to the discussion.AnimationWikipedia:WikiProject AnimationTemplate:WikiProject AnimationAnimation articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Family Guy work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

LGBTQ+ studies

This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies articles

20th Century Studios Low‑importance

	20th Century Studios portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject 20th Century Studios, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 20th Century Studios and its affiliated companies on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.20th Century StudiosWikipedia:WikiProject 20th Century StudiosTemplate:WikiProject 20th Century Studios20th Century Studios articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Fictional characters

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fictional characters, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of fictional characters on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Fictional charactersWikipedia:WikiProject Fictional charactersTemplate:WikiProject Fictional charactersfictional character articles

Pedophilia Article Watch (defunct)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pedophilia Article Watch, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.Pedophilia Article WatchWikipedia:WikiProject Pedophilia Article WatchTemplate:WikiProject Pedophilia Article WatchPedophilia Article Watch articles

"Herbert the Pervert" by Infected Mushroom

Anyone know if if it is possible to link the song titled "Herbert the Pervert" by Infected Mushroom to this character? — MrBucket^T/_C 19:23, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You'll need a WP:RS for that kind of material. DP76764 (Talk) 03:48, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification

I disagree with the use of the word pederast. While Herbert is clearly a pedophile and a homosexual, there is no actual reference to any specific sexual activity practiced or desired by him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.229.217.188 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 27 February 2012

Pedofilia and homosexuality are two different subjects, most pedophiles are not homosexual. I think, generally that sexual attraction to children is simply seen as pedophilia and related conditions and once a person reaches age of consent more traditional sexualities are considered. Insomesia (talk) 03:10, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In a general sense, pedophilia and related terms refer to a sexual attraction based on age or physical maturity. Just like people who are sexually attracted to adults, pedophiles may be sexually attracted to males or females or both. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:54, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

and Herbert is a homosexual, as can be seen in the "No Chris Left Behind" episode where he spends 7 minutes in the closet with Lois's father. Frietjes (talk) 16:55, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pedophile

Chris is clearly not a prepubescent child, so technically Herbert isn't a pedophile. He's either an Ephebophile or a Hebephile.

Despite varying opinions on the subject, which I do tend to agree he does not fit a "pedophile" since he does not seem to target pre-teens, the only RS we can go by is what the creator stated. "Herbert was not originally a pedophile; Henry pitched the idea to the writers of the show, leading to the decision to make him one". Perhaps their are other sources that help define this better, but as of now this is the best we have accurate or not.Tyros1972 (talk) 17:30, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Herbert has been seen around prepubescent children. One episode I can think of is "Chick Cancer". --Angry Dad (talk) 03:06, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He's a pederast--he's actually turned off by adolescent females in several episodes. As far as Mike Henry calling him a pedophile, that doesn't support the evidence. If I were to make an surface ship, with a mostly-flat upper deck, that allowed planes to land and take off from it but, didn't know exactly what it was called, then called it a "flat-topped non-submersible submarine" doesn't mean it's not an aircraft carrier. Ommnomnomgulp (talk) 19:39, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pedophile's do not necessarily target both genders, some target just males, so that doesn't prove anything just because he doesn't like females. However I have not seen any RS to support that he goes after "pre-teens" so I agree with the change, unless someone can further come up with RS to prove differently. Tyros1972 (talk) 05:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd settle for pederast if it would end this controversy. Obviously the show is under no obligation to conform to any clinical definition. / edg ☺ ☭ 11:33, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What about the Ephebophile or a Hebephile? Would either of those be better? They should also be considered and reviewed based on the character, which I am not an expert in. There is no end to Herbert the Pervert on wiki lol Tyros1972 (talk) 14:28, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is a fictional character who allows writers to make "pedophile" (to use the popular misnomer) jokes. Do the writers know (or care) that he falls precisely into one of those categories? Would they break this rule if it served the joke. (Obviously yes.)

The other thing I like about the term pederast is instead of being clinical (or pseudo-clinical, as is the common usage of pedophile), is that it describes an atavistic socia custom that is incompatible with our modern understanding of child sexual abuse, and is therefore "creepy" to modern observers. / edg ☺ ☭ 18:56, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IMHO while it's pointless to debate what particular paraphilia this fictional character has (the mass public tend to call all of it pedophilia anyway), it is worth noting that the show seems brave and daring having such a character -- we laugh when he makes a comment to or about Chis -- but if Herbert really did make comments of a pedophilic nature to and about little children it would be not be considered funny by the viewers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.64.52 (talk) 02:36, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK I felt it was best and accurate to address what Henry says he is, but also what is discussed on here (and on many internet searches). I can't see any valid reason to change this edit. If you disagree, please tell me why? Tyros1972 (talk) 17:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

and Herbert is a homosexual, as can be seen in the "No Chris Left Behind" episode where he spends 7 minutes in the closet with Lois's father, who is an adult. Frietjes (talk) 19:33, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it's ok to reflect Henry's view as his own. Remember, a lot of people seem to use the term "pedophile," not knowing there are more specific terms. Yes, pedophiles _may_ not discriminate based on sex, but Herbert hasn't been attracted to women at all, which would indicate there's a more specific term available to us to describe his sexuality. Ommnomnomgulp (talk) 05:57, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am not saying Henry is right but it is what he says and many do use the term rather loosely. Can't he be a gay pedophile? Why do people call child molsters who for example just target boys a pedophile? Is that actually wrong term? Tyros1972 (talk) 14:10, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

All this analysis of the supposed sexual preferences of a fictional character is irrelevant. Unless it is spelt out on the show what he is (and it isn't) then all we have to go on what reliable sources have to say. The character's creator is also the nearest we have to self identification. Who better to define what he is? He may be wrong in his terminology, he may be right, but no-one here is in any position to say any different. No-one gets to watch the show and decide what is in a fictional character's head. It's completely original research. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Herbert is most likely a pedophile. Pedophilia is defined as a predominant (not necessarily exclusive) sexual attraction to prepubescents. In most instances regarding his sexual attractions, his preferences seem to gravitate towards prepubescents. While Chris is an adolescent, he seems to be more of a grand exception than a rule. At the very least, he can be considered a pedohebephile. --Sega31098 (talk) 03:36, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 15:30, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Herbert (Family Guy) → John Herbert – That's the character's name. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:48, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose In 210 episodes he's been referred to as John Herbert once. Every other time it's just Herbert , or in the case of Chris, Mr. Herbert. It would be WP:UNDUE to rename the article. CTF83! 05:11, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Gotta Oppose too, per WP:COMMONNAME. 1 usage vs 100's is a no-brainer. DP76764 (Talk) 05:13, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - don't think one mention of a cartoon character is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC over the other nine real John Herberts. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:03, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - as stated above. Just because one episode revealed his first name doesn't mean anyone knows him by "john". The character is known as "Herbert" not as "John Herbert" it's that simple. This goes for many cartoon characters not just this one. Tyros1972 Talk 06:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above, a single reference in a single episode doesn't make this his common name (and very recently added). Frietjes (talk) 20:54, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, for reasons elaborated by previous commentators. ╠╣uw [talk] 15:34, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - per WP:COMMONNAME. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, per more commonly known. — Cirt (talk) 18:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.