Talk:Haakon Toresfostre

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On 26 August 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Haakon Magnusson of Norway to Haakon Toresfostre. The result of the discussion was moved.

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Requested move 26 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Opposing comments noted that the proposed title isn't the common name, however they were effectively rebutted as the move is not using the common name as an argument, but rather, disambiguation. Given that, a move appears to be the supported outcome, with no strong prejudice for the proposed title (meaning if a better disambiguation is found later, a new discussion may be pertinent). (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 16:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Haakon Magnusson of Norway → Haakon Toresfostre – "of Norway" is a poor disambiguator when all the other Haakon Magnussons are also kings of Norway. Håkon Toresfostre is a more common spelling in the literature, but the spelling with double a is more consistent with the WP article titles of other royal Haakons. Håkon Magnusson Toresfostre is also a common name, but the suggested title is more concise. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 18:55, 26 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans 07:48, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Mellk (talk) 11:49, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The proposed name returns zero results in google ngrams [1] nor in any reliable sources [2]. The other Norwegian kings by this name are naturally disambiguated by their regnal numbers, and the currently existing hatnote (to which very few readers navigate [3]) should suffice. estar8806 (talk) ★ 21:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Both Haakon V and Haakon VI are called "Haakon Magnusson" without the numerals often enough so that there is a reason to disambiguate. And with three articles to disambiguate, it is not enough to disambiguate two of them and leave the third with a non-disambiguated title, unless it is the primary meaning, which is not the case here. The relevant section in the guideline about disambiguation is WP:NOPRIMARY. The page on incomplete disambiguation (WP:INCDAB) is also relevant.

As for the Ngrams, they are not shown (or stored) for phrases with less than 40 occurrences. Thus zero Ngrams just means less than 40 sources in English, which is not surprising for such a niche topic.

Here are the Google Books results for "Håkon Toresfostre" and "Håkon Magnusson Toresfostre" ("Haakon" is more rare as a spelling.) Also note that the only secondary source in the article that mentions him is the bio titled "Håkon Magnusson Toresfostre". This indicates that the byname is common enough to be used for natural disambiguation. My preference for the short title over the longer Haakon Magnusson Toresfostre is weak, and I would also agree with the longer title if that is preferred for recognizability. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 23:47, 27 August 2024 (UTC) edited:04:23, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's how the current title performs in searches: GBooks search for "Haakon Magnusson of Norway" returns a few hits referring to Haakon VI, but apparently nothing about this king. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 21:54, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I think the nominator has not shown sufficient evidence that the suggested title is WP:COMMONNAME. I think at the very least they should try to refute the points made by the user above. Keivan.f^Talk 21:38, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for being unclear in the above, but I am not arguing for COMMONNAME, which would most likely be Håkon Magnusson. But we need to disambiguate, and using Toresfostre in some form seems to be the most common disambiguation strategy. For example, see GBooks search for Håkon+1093. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 05:53, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. One may also study the title in other encyclopedias. He is not mentioned in Britannica, but here's a survey of Scandinavian encyclopedias:

Håkon Magnusson Toresfostre (Store norske leksikon)
Håkon Magnusson Thoresfostre (Store Danske)
Håkan Tores fostre (Nordisk familjebok)
Håkon Magnusson Toresfostre (Nationalencyklopedin).

—Jähmefyysikko (talk) 07:37, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The motivation for studying these encyclopedias is that they offer a similar depth as WP regarding historical Scandinavian figures and encounter similar disambiguation challenges. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 15:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Norway, WikiProject Biography, WikiProject Norse history and culture, WikiProject Middle Ages, and WikiProject Royalty and Nobility have been notified of this discussion. Reading Beans 07:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Relisting to garner further input from notified WikiProjects. Best, Reading Beans 07:48, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, although some other way to DAB would also be acceptable. Lewisguile (talk) 16:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Yes, the proposed name doesn't appear much in English sources, but it does seem like some sort of disambiguation is needed and the Tresforeste name is used in Norwegian. Could also consider retaining the latter name for Haakon Magnusson Toresfostre, I don't have a strong opinion about that. — Amakuru (talk) 10:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.