Talk:Gloomy Sunday

Composer-Lyricist Order

I'm surprised to see, that the first section states: "(...)a song written by László Jávor and set to music in 1933 by Hungarian pianist and composer Rezső Seress(...)". Although in this case "set to music" is appropriate (since the lyrics existed before the music, as a poem), generally when speaking of a song, "written by" primarily means the composition of a music, not the words, (generally music is "born" first). Gloomy Sunday (as the English title) is a song, not a poem and credits and fame due to Seress. That's the reason I changed the first section. - (Toymao (talk) 01:46, 3 March 2009 (UTC))

Rezső Seress wrote the music AND the original lyrics (see below) the lyrics were then changed to those by László Jávor then English versions by sam m lewis and later desmond carter.

English Translation of original lyrics

It is autumn and the leaves are falling All love has died on earth The wind is weeping with sorrowful tears My heart will never hope for a new spring again My tears and my sorrows are all in vain People are heartless, greedy and wicked...

Love has died!

The world has come to its end, hope has ceased to have a meaning Cities are being wiped out, shrapnel is making music Meadows are coloured red with human blood There are dead people on the streets everywhere I will say another quiet prayer: People are sinners, Lord, they make mistakes...

The world has ended! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.185.158 (talk) 16:12, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

paul lewis - sept 13th 2009

Sorry, but this is false. The origin lyrics ( a poem "Szomorú vasárnap" (Sad Sunday) ) was written by László Jávor in 1932. He asked Rezsö Seress in 1933 to write the music to it. About ten years later, during the Second World War, Seress wrote an alternative text "Vége a világnak" (End of the world). --Interessence (talk) 06:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Wrong. The sheet music clearly labels Jávor's lyrics as új vers (new verse). OBrasilo (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Poppy Z Brite

I seem to recall that there is a mention of this song in one of Poppy Z Brite's books - possibly Lost Souls. I'd add it, only I can't recall what book it was in for certain so I thought I'd mention this here.

The song and its urban legend appear in Brite's book Exquisite Corpse. The character Luke, a.k.a. Lush Rimbaud, plays the song on fictional pirate radio station WHIV.

Schindler's Ark

I can't find any reference on the page itself to the mention of the song in Schindler's Ark, the book which became Schindler's List. In it, a pair of Jewish musicians play the song on violin to a group of SS men a function at which Oskar Schindler is present, one of whom then commits suicide with a pistol. I hesitate to put this in the main body since I'm not registered and I can't verify any of this right now. I seem to recall that there was a discussion in the book about the song being popular with suicides at that time in Central Europe. Doesn't this at least suggest that the connection with suicide is more than a myth?

If you can verify it, go ahead and add it, you don't need to be registered. Registering has benefits, but it's not necessary. Depending on what country you live in, it may be legal for you to find and download a plain text version of the book if you own a physical copy, and then you can to a basic text search on the song title. - Ugliness Man 16:49, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's mentioned as a song that the Rosner's play until an SS officer commits suicide in Schindler's List. I'll add it if I can find my copy John R S 19:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Similar Song Titles

Gloomy Sunday is also another well known underground rap song by MC Sniper, a Korean artist. I'm sure theres more songs that have the same title..

First of all, I'm not sure how you define "well-known", but apparantly it's a matter of perspective. Second, it would not be noteworthy to mention this in the article, simply because any song title is likely to be the title of multiple unrelated songs. Words like "Iris" and "Violet" are the titles of at least a half-dozen unrelated songs, from jazz to rap and hard rock. Third, please sign your comments in the future, it's not a terrible inconvenience to type four tildes. - Ugliness Man 10:26, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Remove category

Removed Category:Motif of harmful sensation, explanation left in talk page of Motif of harmful sensation -- BalthCat, 2006-01-06

Performers

The list of performers is growing quite a bit, I wonder if it might be a good idea to rearrange them alphabetically so that it would be easier for someone scanning the list to see whether or not the performer they're thinking of adding is already there. -Ugliness Man 18:21, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Not sure I agree there. While an alphabetical order can be convenient, especially as a list, the Chronological order is also nice when taking into account the possible path the covers took. Not all will cover the song because of the original performer, or even the first or second generation of interpreters. I'm ambivalent, but at the same time, maybe lazy people shouldn't be updating Wikipedia? -- BalthCat, 2006-01-22

meaning?

What is the song about? Gflores ^Talk 06:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Pronounciation

Can someone add the pronounciation of Szomorú Vasárnap, the original title of Gloomy Sunday? --Acepectif 15:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

It's something like "soe-moe-ROO voah-shaar-NOAP", but I can't really render it in IPA/SAMPA... -- Marcika 07:51, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Let's try - [sɒmɒɾuː vɐʃaɾnɐp], maybe? -- Marcika 07:59, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Genesis (San Francisco, 1968)

This song was covered by an American band named "Genesis" out of San Francisco. The Amercian "Genesis" is not to be confused with the British band "Genesis" which debuted about three weeks later.

And there we go. It now links to Genesis (American band) and to the not-yet-existing article for the 1960s psychedelic rock band Genesis, instead of Genesis (band). Some sources: [1] [2] - Mr. Cat 01:26, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Portishead

Someone added Portishead to the list of performers, but I can't find any solid evidence that they've performed the song. The only thing that looked promising when I did a Google search was a last.fm link, but no page came up when I clicked on it (temporary server problems, it seems), and one must keep in mind that last.fm "information" is entirely dependant on the tags of the music files that people are listening to, whether or not they're accurate. I'm sure last.fm could tell you that Enya sang the Adiemus title song, and that Weird Al sang "What If God Smoked Cannibus", despite the fact that neither are true. I suggest that something more verifiable be cited before adding Portishead to the list again. - Ugliness Man 12:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Need English Translation for Rezső Seress

There is a German wiki article for Rezső Seress, but not an English one. Any one care to translate or shall we use something like Babelfish?

Blocked in Thailand

The specific url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzWVWY5QUzg appears on Thailand's blocklist. It's just a performance of Gloomy Sunday. Prior to YouTube being blocked altogether for insulting the king, it was the ONLY YouTube video on the list. Pretty amazing IMO. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dtfinch (talk • contribs) 08:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Szomorú Vasárnap

There is a Hungarian film by the title Szomorú Vasárnap. "Szomorú Vasárnap" redirects to this article, and it is hard to find the link to the article about the film. --212.40.114.3 15:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Original

I was wondering, what are the lyrics to this song? I have the version by Paul Robeson, but I've also found things that are supposed to be the original lyrics... they are completely different. James:The Four Faced (talk) 22:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

why?

hello i think to believe in this song but its just too crazy for a song and i know that more than 100 persons lost their lives because of this song i just want to know if this song has a spell or a curse or what does rezso seress have done to this song thats wh this song kill people 124.107.213.71 (talk) 03:53, 12 January 2009

That is just an Urban Legend although they are missing parts of the story. The Urban Legend goes as: Rezso Seres' girlfriend committed suicide and in her suicide note she wrote 'Gloomy Sunday' Seres turned this into a song that led to suicides "having connection with the song". Most of these are coincidences like; a girl committed suicide while it was playing on a record. Although it was banned from many radio stations and two countries (Hungary and Europe). Seres did commit suicide by jumping out of a window because after Gloomy Sunday he could not write another hit. Sorry for the confusion between Urban Legend and truth. IGlaucus (talk) 15:54, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

The Author

Is there a reliable source, which can verify the fact, that Laszlo Javor's lyrics existed as a poem before Rezso Seress' tune? Because according to what I know, Rezso Seress wrote both the tune, and the original lyrics (titled Vege a vilagnak, meaning The world has ended). Then, Javor wrote his alternate lyrics, Szomoru vasarnap (Gloomy sunday), after his girlfriend committed suicide. I've also seen photos of the original sheet music, which are widely circulating around the Internet, and they clearly title the song as Vege a vilagnak, using Seress' own lyrics among the sheet music, and only adding Javor's alternate lyrics (Szomoru vasarnap) in the end, after the sheet music.

And I haven't seen a single source stating Seress wrote the tune as music to Javor's poem - in fact, all sources I've seen, state either that Seress wrote the Szomoru vasarnap lyrics after his girlfriend committed suicide (blatantly wrong - they just merge Seress and Javor into one person), or, the more correct version, that Seress wrote the song, and its original lyrics, as Vege a vilagnak, as a song about the despair brought by the war in Hungary, and then Javor wrote his alternate lyrics, after his (that is, Javor's) girlfriend committed suicide. - OBrasilo (talk) 15:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, checking the actual sheet music of the song, it clearly labels Szomorú vasárnap as új vers (new verses), while the original text is clearly specified to being Séress' Vége a világnak (End of the world), so no, Szomorú vasárnap did NOT exist as a poem before the song, it was the new lyrics written to the song, as an alternative to Séress' own Vége a világnak lyrics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.140.73.150 (talk) 20:11, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but this is false. The origin lyrics ( a poem "Szomorú vasárnap" (Sad Sunday) ) was written by László Jávor in 1932. He asked Rezsö Seress in 1933 to write the music to it. About ten years later, during the Second World War, Seress wrote an alternative text "Vége a világnak" (End of the world). The first is about the sorrow of the love, the second one is about the sorrow of the war. --Interessence (talk) 07:03, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

So you are disputing information from the sheet music itself with completely unsourced information? OBrasilo (talk) 20:40, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

The sentence in the sheet music mentioned before is "Vége a világnak... a Szomorú Vasárnap új vers változata" which means: "Vége a világnak...", the new poem version of "Szomorú Vasárnap". "Szomorú Vasárnap" was written in 1934 by László Jávor, who asked Seress to compose the music. The poem "Vége a világnak" was written later during WWII. Gssoft22 (talk) 19:54, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

References

Documentary about the song

A documentary about the song was broadcast some years ago on the public multi-cultural television station in Australia, SBS. It gave as fact the suicides due to the song. Have googled but can't locate details of the program. If found they would be a useful addition to this article (Thesman123 (talk) 23:22, 8 August 2010 (UTC))

No offense, but unless there are at least period newspaper articles talking about said suicides, with hard evidence provided that doubtlessly establishes Gloomy Sunday as the cause for them, as opposed to the fact that Hungary is notable for having a lot of suicides, which had been happening since before Gloomy Sunday was composed, we can't include the suicides as a fact. - OBrasilo (talk) 13:54, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Lyrics

I'm thinking of adding the original Hungarian lyrics into the article and also giving one of the major English translations so people know more what it's about. Given how basic the article is as now, I think that might help it out a bit. Should also note in the article just how varied the translations for this song are. Trollyboy (talk) 11:17, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The background

I've been looking over a lot of info on this song, and while there are some discrepancies between these sources, some facts are all agreed on. This is the basic gyst of it:
Rezco wrote the song in early 1933 after the break up of him and his girlfriend. Depressed both by this and the Great depression/fascism in his home country, the lyrics were about the horriblness of humanity. He had trouble publsihing it, but was ultimetly successful. The song became really famous once the lyrics were changed by poet the Laszlo, and at the time many suicides began to be connected with it, including his girlfriend. Billie Holiday recorded the song in 1941, which was banned by the BBC. Seress committed suicide in 1968, and the urban legends surrounding it still exist. I've been working to fit all this into the article :)60.242.210.126 (talk) 07:53, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

As I wrote above, the origin lyrics ( a poem "Szomorú vasárnap" (Sad Sunday) ) was written by László Jávor in 1932, because his girlfriend left him. He asked Rezsö Seress in 1933 to write the music to it. Seress had luck in love that time, he picked up with his later wife (Heléne Jászonyiné. She was a very nice women and a wife of a rich officer, but she choose the unattractive and poor Seress. About ten years later, during the Second World War, Seress wrote an alternative text "Vége a világnak" (End of the world). It was about the horribleness of the war and about the end of the humanity. --Interessence (talk) 07:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

And yet, the sheet music clearly labels Jávor's lyrics as új vers (new verse). This clearly indicates Jávor's lyrics were written after Séress', not before. OBrasilo (talk) 20:36, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Picture

I've been thinking of what picture should be used in this article. Considering that this song came out long before album or song covers, I think that that a picture of the original composer Seress should do. If anyone can suggest a better image, feel free to make a suggestion.Trollyboy (talk) 08:37, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

You could perhaps upload a label shot like this, or a copy of the sheet music like this - while recognising the copyright restrictions of course. (I'm no expert on those things, so please don't ask me!) Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:14, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions, but the picture put in should do it for now. If you find an amazing image (that isin't copyrighted or such), feel free to put it somewhere in the article where it will recieve maximum impact. Every little thing will help! :) Anyhow, I'm going to remove the "Needs Image" tag in the discussion banner, since it has obviously been satisfied. Also added a picture of Billie Holiday abit further down. Trollyboy (talk) 00:01, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Article needs

Most of the info is fairly well put down and referenced. Things that still need dealing with however include:

• Padding up the info in the urban legend section.
• Maybe putting in more about the songs legacy, particurly in regards to its home country of Hungary (there gotta more to it then "Made people suicide"!!)
• Most importantly, working out the musical side to it, including the genre and composition.

I'll see what I can do about most of these, but all recommendations or leads are appreciated! Trollyboy (talk) 14:41, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I'll look into it as well. You're doing a good job. Hope you don't mind if I do some editing for style. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:47, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Pop Culture References

I've been searching for reliale references for the things in the pop culture section. While I found some for most of them, however, some of the links are to videos related to the subject in question. Are those legitiment references? (Check them to make sure) I also could find nothing for "The story of a Ghost". Unless someone finds something, I may have to remove it.Trollyboy (talk) 09:38, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

After some searching, I could find no notable connection between "The story of a Ghost" and gloomy sunday, so I removed it. Feel free to reinstate it if you can find a reliable reference. I've also removed the "Needs References" banner from section since all notes are now referenced. If someone finds a problem in the references or such, feel free to reinstate that too, though I don't think it's nessasary right now. Trollyboy (talk) 09:38, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Reference Hell

After sifting through hours of info on this song, I'm finally starting to realise just how hard-to-come-by verifaible references for this article are. Unfortunetly, this song ticks all the boxes for something that will poccess little or at least highly misleading information around it; It's foreign, was composed before a lot of verifiable media came into existence and is surrounded by a legend that obscures a lot of the truth. Even normally trustworthy sources give suprising inaccurate information. I've decided not to make any more info edits untill some dead set source of comparison is found, which will almost certainly be some of kind of translation from an original Hungarian source. If anyone can help with this, feel free to post the site or source of information. Trollyboy (talk) 23:18, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, we at least have the original sheet music for Gloomy Sunday, which is entitled Vege a világnak, with the "Szomorú vasárnap" labelled as új vers meaning "new verses". So to me that's irrefutable evidence that the song was written, music and lyircs, as Vege a világnak, by Rezsö Séress, with Jávor writing his own Szomorú vasárnap lyrics to it at a later date. This is also the version of the story I see most commonly presented in sources. In fact, I remember 7 years ago or so, the most common story about the song on the Internet was that Séress wrote the song after being inspired by sounds he heard somewhere, and that Jávor later wrote his own lyrics for Séress's song. Then as the years went by, the version that Séress wrote the song, with the Szomorú vasárnap lyrics as original, after the break-up of his own romance, became the most popular, and eventually, likely after realizing there's no evidence of a romance of Séress's, Jávor was substituted in as the original writer, and the song as having originated as a poem.

But we have the sheet music, that clearly label's Jávor's lyrics as új vers meaning "new verses", showing that the Vege a világnak verses were original. Granted, I can't for all I try fathom why someone would have wrote, in 1933 during the interwar peace period, a song whose second verse talks about shrapnels and dead bodies, thus clearly showing a war. I also haven't come across a recording with the 2nd verse of the Vége a világnak lyrics sung, only the first verse of said lyrics, and both verses of the Szomorú vasárnap lyrics I've found performed versions with. Also worth noting is, however, that the stress pattern of the Vége a világnak lyrics matches Séréss's melody more closely than that of the Szomorú vasárnap lyrics. But as you said above, reliable information about this song is notoriously hard to find, with most sources simply presenting versions of the urban legend as fact.

There was a site, however, whose adress I've forgotten now, that talked more about Séress and mentioned that he first performed the song in the Kispipa vendeglö restaurant in Budapest, where he used to play. There's also a recording on YouTube, which I've seen floating around on Wikipedia too, claiming to be of Séress himself singing the song, with the Szomorú vasárnap lyrics. - OBrasilo (talk) 14:10, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Much of the urban legend section seems to be based on one person's opinion: the snopes.com source doesn't mention any source for the legend itself, doesn't tell us where or when it orginated, it admits the sources needed to verify or disprove the claims weren't checked, and all explanations are presented as guesswork by the author. Some quotes:

• my guess, based on similar legends ...
• I don't know how any of these claims could be verified short of paging through old Hungarian newspapers...
• I suspect that ..

The famine and poverty bit seems WP:OR. The link with Hungaria's historical high suicide rate is speculation: the depression led to higher rates of suicide all over the world, but there's no evidence that they spiked in 1936 in Hungary.

Last but not least: the section is vague about the actual "legend": is it that the song caused suicides, or that some people played the record before their suicide or had the words of the song in their pocket during suicide etc.. ? What's so implausible about suicidal people listening to a song about suicide, or leaving a suicide note with song lyrics that read like a suicide note? Authorities (over)reacting to rumours is not unheard of either. Ssscienccce (talk) 15:06, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Poem by Laszlo Javor

Can I ask why the claim that it was originally a poem by Javor was again insert into the article? It goes against most references, and even against the original sheet music which clearly lables Javor's verses as új vers which means new verses. Also, the claims about it being originally a poem by Javor to which Séress would later write the tune, appeared relatively recently. 9 years ago, when I first searched all over the Internet for information on this song, I had never found such claims at all, all sources said it was Séress who originally wrote the music and lyrics, and later Jávor wrote his own because supposedly the original lyrics were too depressive, but then Jávor's own lyrics ended up being even more depressive, though also more popular.
Also, what's the source for the 1946 release date for Séress' own lyrics? We know Séress' tune existed in the 1930's because we have recordings such as the one by Pal Kalmár, and even one alleging to be by Séress himself, from that era. And the sheet music we all know of, clearly titles the song VEGE A VILÁGNAK, has Séress' own lyircs as the main one, with Jávor's alternate lyrics added in the bottom and labeled új vers (new verses).
And I really think the sheet music provides more reliable information than who knows what source from half a century later. So therefore, I am again removing the incorrect information from the article. OBrasilo (talk) 20:20, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Reference doesn't say what the article says

Hey,

Just read the reference for the claim that the composer survived a fall but choked himself later with wire (an extraordinary feat, if true), and the reference doesn't say that at all. The reference doesn't contradict it, so it may well be true, and thus I don't want to remove it without giving someone the chance to just source it properly, but if no source is found for this claim then it should be removed.

Thanks,

203.219.47.40 (talk) 11:47, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

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Version sung by Billie Holiday

The article fails to mention that there had been added a 3rd stanza to the version sung by Billie Holiday that intends to make the suicide thoughts appear like a bad dream ("Darling I hope that my dream never haunted you"). -- 2003:E2:AF1F:441C:446C:10C4:27FF:E0E1 (talk) 20:21, 20 April 2018 (UTC)