Talk:Fortune cookie

Lucky Numbers

Erm... Somebody changed "lucky numbers" to "unlucky numbers", so I'm just gonna change that right back, kay?

Thanks for understanding

--Monk of the highest order 03:43, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Senbei can be both sweet and savory. Having lived in Japan, I have eaten senbei which taste just like fortune cookies. The only difference was the senbei was round and flat. This particular senbei is about the size an unfolded fortune cookie would be. I don't have any evidence but it seems that fortune cookies are made from this sweet senbei. ~~Taoshi05~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Taoshi05 (talk • contribs)

Tsujiura senbei

I gave tsujiura senbei its own paragraph, since it was jumbled up with the rest of the article previously. It seems like tsujiura is the more general category of confections with a fortune inside, while the tsujiura senbei is the one that American-Chinese fortune cookies copied the exact shape of. One of the previous authors claim tsujiura senbei is not sweet, but I couldn't confirm this myself. --69.212.100.126 23:12, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

---

This is one of 2 theories. The other indicates that the fortune cookie was invented by Los Angeles noodle manufacturer David Jung in 1916. Both theories are just the American origin.

From the various histories I've read, the 1st origin of fortune cookies is decidedly Chinese. Sometime during the 13th and 14th century in China, during the Mongol occupation, fortune cookies were used by Chinese rebels to organize an uprising that lead to the basis of what eventually became the Ming Dynasty.

That would be Moon cakes. Rmhermen 17:30, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

Is this the one where people inserted secret messages in foods to communicate between allies? Sure, this has happened before, and Mickey Mouse has been drawn before Disney existed, but I think what is key here is that American Chinese restaurants based the shape and idea for the fortune cookies off of the traditional tsujiura senbei introduced to the US at the Golden Gate Park. --69.212.100.126 23:32, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

---

the bulk of this article is written as it started by a anonymous.

the link given from the Japanese origin (presume it is true) to Chinese is just the sentence that "local Chinese usurped the idea".

is there any resource to backup this article? has any one, for example, read from a book, or some or reliable place?

btw, responding to the above poster: i think Fortune Cookies shouldn't related history that's too far back. Such a concept of message in food are likely very common.

Xah Lee P0lyglut 17:43, 2004 May 23 (UTC)

Further Reading

Here's some information on Japanese & Malasian fortune cookies;

http://phuakl.tripod.com/eTHOUGHT/yeesang.htm http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20060416x3.html

Pictures

Aren't these pictures a little unneccessary? If anything, we should only need the opened one.

---

http://www.nypress.com/17/38/food/gershenson.cfm gives more detail on the David Jung story. --Robert Merkel 07:46, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Real life / internet!

Good grief. Can it be, that on Wikipedia, for a term that has both a real life and an internet meaning, we have the real life term, but NOT the internet term?! Shock! Horror! Mark Richards 03:35, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

it seems like you just added the blurb for it yourself. great.--69.212.100.126 23:12, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sources

The French Wiki article (fr:Fortune cookie) quotes a few sources (in English) that could be used to improve this article. - Mu 10:37, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Here's what it says on "Aphorisms and predictions in all kinds" (translation by freetranslation.com)

For reference only. Has lots of spelling mistakes, french words, etc.

"The first inserted messages in the fortunes cookies by David Jung were composed biblical quotations and of ésope maxims and of Junior Franklin. Its competitors having retorted with maxims of Confucius, certain authentic, of invented others out of nothing, Jung organisa in the years 1950 the first compilation competitions of aphorisms for cookies, exploiting thus a humorous filon promised to a big success. The years 1960 turn the appearance of the first advertising slogans, follow to them turn of political slogans, then of personalized messages for celebrate and anniversary. The years 1970 turn to bloom the aphorisms to connotation cryptique, absurd or scabreuse, to which ones s'ajoutèrent themselves in the years 1980 the amount carries happiness intend for the lottery players. All these kinds and many other meet again these days on Internet, where coexist nonspecialized sites and specialized sites in the quotations, the tasteless predictions or of bad augur, the generators of cookies for blogs. ..[5] The all, relates Donald Lau, professional editor of maxims and assistant director of the Wanton Food Company to New York, "this is of not to have the too complicated spirit. Think in sentences of ten words." [6]

Examples (translate English) originating of a fortune florilège cookies found in restaurants [7] Confucius says: You have a heart as big as the Texas. Thanks to your melodious nature, the moonlight always is to the appointment. All not step again is lost.

Examples (translate English) originating of a fortune generator cookies on Internet [8] One sees rarely monuments to the glory of a committee. The goal of the science is to do better traps to smiles; the one of the nature is to do better mice. Done you to forgive now - tomorrow you will not feel maybe more guilty. The soul would not know l'arc-en-ciel if the eyes did not know the tears."

Could someone incorporate this into the English page?

Fortune Cookie Payout

Does one incident involving numbers from a fortune cookie really deserve half an article? it's really not that interesting... 66.41.59.162 02:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

• It think it is interesting enough, and probably fits here better than it would in the article on lotteries. Crypticfirefly 06:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

• Something like this really does not belong in an encyclopedia. I may remove it. --JHP 22:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Fortune Cookie Etiquette

I question the sources for the section on this and suggest that it be removed; sounds like *someone* holds to this custom and thought it was universal, as I and many people who I know have never heard of it. It doesn't seem verifiable.

• Perhaps it is regional? I've heard of it and so have many people I know. (No, I'm not the person who added it in the first place.) Crypticfirefly 03:55, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll add my own input to this -- I, from California, have never heard of this custom. I've asked my girlfriend from Virginia about it, and she has never heard of it either. This seems to be a regional thing if Crypticfirefly's statement is so, but the region should be determined and noted in the entry if it's to stay in the article. --TouchGnome 08:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

* Whoever added this section was just making things up. Especially suspect was the sentence that claimed seventy percent of people use... when using statistics you have to cite source. -Taco325i 13:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

To clairify, the part I have heard of is the idea that one must eat the whole cookie for the fortune to come true. And I'm from the Midwest, if you are wondering. But here's a Californian source for the "custom" of eating the whole cookie: "Fortune cookie US invention" (Article by by Ellie Parvin published in a 1995 issue of the Golden Gater. Article quotes Nancy Chan of Golden Gate Fortune Cookies Co. for the idea that one must eat the entire cookie.) Crypticfirefly 03:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I suggest removing the whole "Fortune cookie in popular culture" section. I don't believe the stuff in this section belongs in an encyclopedia. --JHP 22:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The "in your bed" meme

The "in your bed" suffix is certainly about fortune cookies. I've never heard it applied to anything else; can anyone find evidence of its being used elsewhere? My SO actually mentioned this meme on a blog post after we ate fortune cookies last night, and linked to this very page before that text was removed. The Wednesday Island 16:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I've commonly heard the "in bed" suffix from many people in several regions in the US. I've NEVER heard "with a battle axe" though. Is this perhaps a D&D or geek culture practice? This doesn't seem all that common to me and I think it could be clarified or removed.

I suggest removing the whole "Fortune cookie in popular culture" section. I don't believe the stuff in this section belongs in an encyclopedia. --JHP 22:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Grew up in Southern Australia and Nothern England, eaten heaps of chinese and cookies, never heard of this in the sheets thing. Sorry JayKeaton 11:18, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I've added a citation for the "in bed" thing, but separated out the "with a battle axe" thing so that if someone has a reference for it they can add it. Crypticfirefly 01:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

College jokes in a non-humor article are non-encyclopedic, whether you have a citation or not. How can the lottery-payout story get deleted, which was a significant enough cultural event to get covered by the media and put in a book, but someone's dumb joke stays? I have tried deleting it, but someone keeps putting it back. What is the consensus? 74.104.22.121 (talk) 21:29, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

It's a common joke in the US and a legitimate reference was provided. Information about jokes (not repeating the jokes themselves) isn't necessarily "non-encyclopedic." Wasn't paying attention when the lottery-payout information was removed, but I suppose it could be argued that such info belongs in the lottery article. Meh, if I can readily find that in the edit history I'll put in somewhere. Crypticfirefly (talk) 00:41, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Followup: Just added the lottery payout info to the lottery article. Crypticfirefly (talk)

Three Strikes Against Keeping the Bed Game: 1) The Phil Vettel article given in the reference only says "For dessert we made do with the fortune cookies that came with the order, played the "in bed" game (add "in bed" to the end of each fortune; much frat-boy hilarity ensues) and with a hearty "gung hay fat choy" (wishing you happiness and prosperity), rang in yet another New Year." Chicago Tribune Jan 21, 2005 Creating a Menu for Lunar New Year (paywall). It does not say that the game is commonly associated with Fortune Cookies. 2) Even if it did, a newspaper article is not a WP:Reliable Source. 3) In any case, the game scarcely meets the test of Wikipedia:Notability. ch (talk) 06:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

It seems obvious to me that this joke is not relevant to the article. If a source makes clear statements about how common and significant this joke is in wide circles, it might be used to support inclusion - but this source appears to give anecdotal evidence only. The joke has been here for ages only because the article hasn't got a lot of attention. I won't delete it right now, by I think it must go.--Nø (talk) 10:25, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

While I did not put this information in the article in the first place, I object to its removal because I believe that its presence makes the article better. One might even argue that it is not so much a joke as it is a ritual associated with consuming the cookies. When I restored the info, I clarified that the joke is common in the United States. Nø, I see you are in Denmark. That may be why it is unfamiliar to you. As for whether newspapers are reliable sources, CWH, it depends on the fact in question. Here's another newspaper article, this one from New York rather than Chicago, actually stating that the game is associated with fortune cookies. http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/2012/02/play_the_fortun.php "Here in New York, we have our own peculiar tradition. As each fortune is read by the guests sitting around the table after a Chinese meal, the words "in bed" are automatically added to the end of the fortune, after a brief pause." And here is an xkcd cartoon which relies on common knowledge of the game. If you don't know the game, the strip will not make sense. http://xkcd.com/425/ Of course a cartoon is not a reliable source. But perhaps you can agree that treatment of the topic in a very popular webcomic suggests some level of familiarity with the concept among many. Here, Wired magazine (a national magazine) references the joke in a headline title, "Fortune Cookie Factory Still Rocks Old-School Tech...In Bed." http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2012/05/fortune-cookie-factories-use-midcentury-innovation-in-a-high-tech-world/ This too implies that this joke is very widely known in the US. CWH, you appear to be into scholarly research. If you have a JSTOR account perhaps you could spend a minute or two checking to see if some source you feel comfortable with has discussed this. Crypticfirefly (talk) 20:08, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I still think it is unencyclopaedic, silly, only marinally relevant, and only should be included if solid secondary sources discuss it. Even with the sources now at hand it seems like OR. But I agree the sources now at hand suggest it is a very common phenomenon, and thus it's not unlikely appropriate sources can be found. Blogs, cartoons, and implicit reference in a magazine headline hardly suffice.--Nø (talk) 15:40, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I take your point, Crypticfirefly, that the meme may be widespread (or not, we don't know). In fact, before posting my comments above, I did spend quite a while on Google, Google Scholar, and WorldCat looking for references to the meme (you don't need a JSTOR account to use these search tools, though you do need one or access to a library to actually see the references). These references were hard to find. They do exist, just not in Reliable Sources, so we are left with Forbidden Fruits, that is (gasp!) Original Research.

What I did was to search "Fortune Cookie" + "in bed," as well as a couple of other combinations. In the first ten pages of results, there were maybe half a dozen which mentioned "fortune cookies" and "in bed" as a game, mostly from what seemed to be romance novels. This only confirms what we know, i.e. that there is such a game.

The only article about the meme, I found only by searching for "'To know is nothing; to imagine is everything,'" that is, the Foxman and Bradley article already in the footnote. It proved difficult to locate the American Marketing Association Conference Proceedings in a library near me, and it's not online.

Since you (Crypticfirefly) were the editor who added the Foxman and Bradley reference (4 June 2007), could you give us a direct quote from it?

In any case, whether or not the meme is widespread, my doubts are based on Due Weight. There are hundreds of titles under "Fortune Cookie," which shows that it is widespread in popular culture, but not really related to the Fortune Cookie as such. Going back over the history of the article shows that any number of references in popular culture were taken out or reverted, usually on grounds that the practice or reference was not encyclopedic, or not notable, or disproportionate.

Hope this helps.ch (talk) 23:11, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Sure. At the time I added it I was looking for something to verify that the practice exists. The article researches 'consumer rituals' relating to eating fortune cookies. Here's the article abstract:

This project explores the structure and meaning of fortune cookie consumption. Using long interview and free sort methods, we categorize fortunes types and people’s evaluations of them, and also outline the behaviors that constitute the fortune cookie consumption ritual. Lastly, we explore the meanings people invest in this social ritual.

In the section in which they discuss that sharing the fortunes with the other people at the table they mention the "in bed" practice:

The fourth cluster of behaviors involves sharing the fortunes. Commonly, everybody must hear everybody else’s fortune. Communicating the fortunes is usually accompanied by group discussion -- sometimes serious, often playful. Several respondents, for example, stated that everyone at the table had to read their fortune aloud, adding the words, “in bed,” or “between the sheets” to it. Overall, most approaches to sharing the fortunes focused on “good” fortunes.

Looking at the Foxman and Bradley article afresh, maybe what we really need is more discussion of the practices associated with eating the cookies, of which the "in bed" amendment to the fortunes is a well-known, but not universally practiced, example. And now I'm rather curious what folks do with the fortunes in Denmark. Though I suspect finding that out would be a nice project for a research project but won't be answered here. :-) Crypticfirefly (talk) 06:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I like those quotes (only I wonder if they are serious or spoofed; I won't try to judge that). As for Danish customs, I don't really know - but my son baked fortune cookies in school during a Chinese theme week last year - does that count? (They were quite tasty, and they also found some good sentences to put inside.)--Nø (talk) 07:26, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. There's no reason I can see to think that the respondents in the study were joking when they answered the questions. Crypticfirefly (talk) 01:39, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I was absolutely fine with this section until that awful word "meme" reared its ugly head. Insist that we explain memetic theory if it is to be kept this way, or, ideally, that this widely-misused term simply be left out as unnecessary and confusing. Heather (talk) 16:42, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Suggested move

Since the fortune cookie is not really Chinese, I suggest that the article should not be titled "Chinese fortune cookie." I recommend that it be moved to "Fortune cookie (food)". --JHP 22:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Customs

I eat the paper. I know lots of people who eat the paper. My parents eat the paper. It is, by definition, a custom in my region. I just thought I would let the world know that this is indeed a part of fortune cookie culture, but every time I add this to the page, someone deletes it. Please, do not delete my change to the fortune cookie page.

Just to make it clear, that change is that eating the paper is customary in some regions.

If you want that information to stay in the article, you need to 1) specify what region you're talking about, and 2) provide some kind of reliable source which would confirm your claim. The fact that you, your parents, and "lots of people" you know eat the paper is not something we can verify. If you don't provide a source it will likely keep getting removed. Serpent-A 07:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed - I've never heard of such a custom, and to present it as "normal" is certainly wrong. violet/riga (t) 15:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I also have never heard of such a custom, but it seems very believable to me that such a custom would occur. JayKeaton 11:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I heard in some regions it's customary to eat the table at the restaurant as well as the cookie, paper and dishes. If you do that, it's quite sure the fortune in the cookie will come true. Specially true if the fortune says: "You will be chased by 3 angry Chinese guys with kitchen knives". Владимир И. Сува Чего? 22:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Boring history

Was anyone else expecting the history of the fortune cookie to read more like the exciting adventures of a Chinese general trapped in prison during the Zoixing Dynasty, and his peoples daring plan to hide secret messages to him in the customary cookies that were sent to his sell. These messages tipped him off about a secret escape plan and the Chinese general escaped, and so the custom of using these "fortunous cookies" with messages inside them is recreated 2500 years later, to this day the Chinese have remembered this honored hero with Fortune Cookies. Hehe, but just some guy in some American town thought it would be a good money spinner about 80 years ago. I prefer my version JayKeaton 11:17, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

It's just a cookie. Try going out once in a while. Joachim5000 12:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the story you mention at the beginning is similar to the alleged story of mooncakes - in the Yuan dynasty, when the Han Chinese were ruled by Mongolians, some Han Chinese secretly passed messages hidden in small cakes telling everyone to start a revolution on Mid-autumn festival. They eventually succeeded in overthrowing the Mongolians and built the Ming dynasty, and the cakes evolved into mooncakes. Also, as someone from Hong Kong, I can confidently tell you that 1. there's no "Zoixing dynasty" in the 5000 years history of China 2. Chinese do NOT "remember" anyone with fortune cookies. Chinese who haven't been to American "Chinese" restaurants or saw them in movies would not know there is something called fortune cookies. I myself have only had one fortune cookie in my 20+ years of life, and that was in Canada. 147.8.186.220 (talk) 14:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

World-view template

Why is this here? Fortune cookies were invented in the U.S., and are primarily an American thing... I don't really see what we can say to broaden the world-view of this article. ~ ONUnicorn (Talk / Contribs) 14:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The U.S. contributes significantly to world culture. You probably think that's a bad thing, but remember that the U.S. culture is an amalgamation of cultures from every corner of the globe. Sure, it's not the fairy-tale "melting pot" but no other country contains so many diverse and relatively peaceful people together from EVERY corner of the planet. The culmination of such influences is just as much a reflection of the effectiveness of an individual community as the sum total is of the world. Joachim5000 03:26, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The thing should be taken off. Fortune cookies are American. --Descendall 09:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree as well. The "World-view" template seems a little ridiculous. If they are trying to force the issue through a mistaken belief that there is some non-American Asian ties to fortune cookies, then they are... well, mistaken. I'm Chinese-American, and when I was in China, not a single person I talked to had ever heard of fortune cookies. I'm not too sure if they even give them out in Europe. Somebody should take the tag off. 75.46.28.17 07:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes. The world consists of the US of A, and China. Very broad view indeed. None of the above posts seem to recognise that there are quite a few other continents on this Earth and they have fortune cookies too! --Sumple (Talk) 07:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The fortune cookie is simply not available in New Zealand or Australia, I have been to a few buffet restaurants and takeaways that are frequented by Caucasians and none offers this on the table. Even across the US border, Canada's Chinese buffet restaurants don't have them either, let alone the HK Chinese migrant owned types in Toronto. So I don't think why there is such a need to add the Worldwide perspectives. Come back to me when you are able to find anywhere outside the United States of America that offers fortune cookies. --JNZ 00:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I live in Montreal and every single chinese restaurant here gives away fortune cookies, this is certainly not a Toronto only thing. I am pretty sure that all across the province of Quebec, all chinese restaurants have them. --Vineon 02:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip Vineon, apparently now I have got egg on my face LOL. --JNZ 11:27, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

needhanzi

I removed the {{needhanzi}} template, because fortune cookies are a foreign invention, so any Chinese name will just be a translation of the English name. If you really want to know, my dictionary translates it as 占卜餅 or fortune telling biscuit and Google translates it as 幸福餅乾 or lucky biscuit. 203.109.174.60 08:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I have never seen either term. Maybe next time when I walk past a Canadian-Chinese restaurant I can take a peak at the menu.

But really I don't recall it having a Chinese name myself either.—Gniw (Wing) 09:14, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I've added a few that show up on bilingual ("Rosetta Stone") Google searches. The above two are not particularly prominent among them. Badagnani 18:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Fortune Cookies

Fortune Cookies does not point here.

does anyone else think it should? I propose the album page be moved to Fortune Cookies (album), and Fortune Cookies be redirected here. --Sumple (Talk) 06:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I concur with your excellent plan. Crypticfirefly 07:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

done. --Sumple (Talk) 10:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Chinese names

Okay, the thing is, the best you're going to see are probably ad-hoc translations. The translations you have there at fortune cookie are just a few combinations using synonyms of "fortune", "paper slip", "foretell", and "cookie"; using the same pattern, and using more synonyms that I can think of right now, we can come up with probably another 1000 names, and they would all be "correct". So I think it's inherently pointless to try and come up with a Chinese name for "fortune cookie", because as far as I can tell, "the" Chinese name simply doesn't exist. -- ran (talk) 04:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: Googling suggests that people would translate it as either 幸運餅 xing4yun4bing3 or 籤語餅 qian1yu3bing3. Keep in mind though, that these are not authoritative names, just the names that the Chinese Wikipedia (say) might decide on after resorting to the Google test. -- ran (talk) 04:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't see the reason of adding any Chinese translation to an article on American food. It sure looks ridiculous if 美式中國菜 is specified as the Chinese name for American Chinese cuisine in that entry.Yel D'ohan (talk) 16:08, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Unique to North America?

I live in the UK, and have had fortune cookies at every chinese restaurant I've ever been to. I have also bought bags of them in France and Italy. So it is obviously untrue that they are "unique to the United States and Canada". This may be a badly worded sentence, or it may simply be incorrect individual research, but someone should rewrite or delete it. I would, but I don't know which one should be done. - Oisin_(Speak)

Oisin - I have no idea where you live in the UK, but I certainly have never had one here - including almost weekly visits to various restaurants in China Town in London, takeaways or the rest of the south of England. Any other non-US peeps verify Oisins' claim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.227.83 (talk) 22:38, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I have had them in both Dundee and Edinburgh. From chinese takeaways. Some give them, some don't. 86.151.166.7 (talk) 11:39, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

New article in NYT on origin of the fortune cookie

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/dining/16fort.html Jayavarman1 (talk) 13:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

More than enough text has probably been added about Japanese origins now. (Please improve this material.) But the info box now needs improving, by someone who knows Japanese. The proper Japanese terms should be added.-69.87.203.187 (talk) 16:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

2004 research in Japan

Yasuko Nakamachi, a researcher in Japan, has devoted years to studying historic roots there, published in 2004 as part of a Kanagawa University report.[1]

If someone is able to track down this 2004 publication, it would be good to have it properly listed as a full official reference. -69.87.203.122 (talk) 20:23, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Japanese Roots

Yasuko Nakamachi, a researcher in Japan, has devoted years to studying historic roots there, published in 2004 as part of a Kanagawa University report.[2] She traced them to centuries-old small family bakeries making obscure fortune cookie-shaped crackers by hand near a temple outside Kyoto. She has turned up many references in Japanese literature and history. In an illustration from a 1878 book of stories, “Moshiogusa Kinsei Kidan”, the apprentice appears to be grilling wafers in black irons over coals, the same way they are made in Hogyokudo and other present-day bakeries. A sign above him reads “tsujiura senbei” and next to him are tubs filled with little round shapes — the tsujiura senbei themselves. The grills contain round molds into which batter is poured, something like a small waffle iron. Little pieces of paper were folded into the cookies before they cooled. The cookies are called: tsujiura senbei (“fortune crackers”), omikuji senbei (“written fortune crackers”), and suzu senbei (“bell crackers”). In an earlier work of fiction by Tamenaga Shunsui (1790 - 1843), a woman tries to placate two other women with tsujiura senbei that contain fortunes.

The families of Japanese or Chinese immigrants in California that claim to have invented or popularized fortune cookies all date the cookie’s appearance between 1907 and 1914. A number of immigrant families in California, mostly Japanese, have laid claim to introducing or popularizing the fortune cookie. Makoto Hagiwara was a Japanese immigrant who oversaw the Japanese Tea Garden built in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park in the 1890s. Visitors to the garden there were served fortune cookies made by a San Francisco bakery, Benkyodo. Fugetsudo and Benkyodo both have discovered their original “kata” black iron grills, almost identical to the ones that are used today in the Kyoto bakery. During the 1920s and 1930s, many Japanese immigrants in California owned chop suey restaurants, which served Americanized Chinese cuisine.[3] -69.87.199.46 (talk) 02:19, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

This being the case, should not the origin be changed from Japanese and American, as it is currently, to Japanese only? Jeszjesz (talk) 13:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Europe's largest fortune cookie manufacturer Fortune Cookie Co. Ltd claims that "the origins of the Fortune Cookie as we know it today were laid down by the Chinese '49ers who worked on the building of the great American railways through the Sierra Nevada into California. Work was very hard and pleasures were few in isolated camps, those hard workers had only biscuits with happy messages inside, to exchange at the Moon Festival instead of traditional cakes with happy messages, thus the FORTUNE COOKIE was born. This became something of a cottage industry and as the Chinese settled in San Francisco after the railway and the Gold Boom the custom continued." Source: http://www.fortunecookie.demon.co.uk/fhistory.html Retrieved 28/05/08 NB Several American contributors claim that Fortune Cookies are only produced in the US, but I've had Chinese meals all over Western Europe (including the UK) and I never left those restaurants without them. Cheers everybody & have a cookie on me. And remember: "Always be kind to pigeons - a statue may one day be made of you". Frank Landsman (talk) 07:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Regional variations on recipe

The ingredients given in the article do not match the normal recipe for fortune cookies in the UK, which are usually dairy free. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.91.191.29 (talk) 08:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Western World

The article says: "Throughout the western world, it is usually served with Chinese food in Chinese restaurants as a dessert."

I've never seen them in France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Holland, Czech republic... Even, in the French article it is said its only from USA and Canada, and in the German one: "Fortune cookies are not particularly available in Chinese restaurants or Asian grocer's shops in Europe", according to Yahoo's babelfish translation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.150.126.120 (talk) 20:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Likewise I cannot recall ever having seen one in a 'Chinese' restaurant in Australia. Not surprising, considering their heritage. —DIV (120.19.1.177 (talk) 13:35, 22 September 2016 (UTC))

Having now reviewed the text under "Around the world", I found the phrase

"Fortune cookies [...] have been served"

to be singularly unhelpful. Yes, it happened once, in one restaurant, so we can include it in the list!?

Nobody cares if it has 'ever happened'. Readers want to know if it (almost) always happens, or sometimes happens, or infrequently happens. For this context rare occurrences are pretty uninteresting, and actually should probably not be included in the article. This includes Australia!

—DIV (120.19.1.177 (talk) 13:44, 22 September 2016 (UTC))

How do they make it?

Anyone have any idea how they make a fortune cookie? --Airplaneman (talk) 02:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Fortune-Cookie might help. Eseentially, a small pancake that is then twisted into shape and baked until hardened. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 18:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Dessert?

This article states: "usually served with Chinese food in Chinese restaurants as a dessert." Not really, they're more like the chinese restaurant equivalent of an after dinner mint - you certainly wouldn't call one of those a dessert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.61.141 (talk) 17:58, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

You would if you were basing the term dessert anywhere outside of the obese American empire.A dessert doesn't have to be large and covered in chocolate67.172.84.166 (talk) 14:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Connection with fox statues

Complete speculation, but seeing the traditional Japanese fortune cookies outside Fushimi Inari-taisha (with the fortunes pinched into the mouth) and then seeing the statues of foxes clutching various objects (including a scroll) in their mouths (see image) makes one wonder if there’s any connection – i.e., if a fortune pinched into the “mouth” of the cookie evokes foxes holding something in their mouth.

I don’t think there is – as the NY Times article indicates, “many confectioneries and candies came with little fortunes inside”, and traditionally the fortunes were inside, not outside – so I think it’s just a fortune tradition.

Still, too tempting to not point out. (^.-)v

—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 04:47, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Stereotype

The multiply sourced text on fortune cookies sometimes being used to stereotype Asians was removed as "two isolated events". Here is another source related to a Mulan promotion. The Asian American Journalists Association has said that there is no reason to associate an Asian with a fortune cookie in the media. While the individual incidents do not need to be detailed, it should be mentioned that this is viewed by some as offensive in certain contexts. —Bagumba (talk) 02:17, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Assuming a consensus to keep. I'll restore, while paring down details on specific incidents.—Bagumba (talk) 23:17, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

IHT article in external links

It may be worth noting in the article body that the prophecy fortunes usually always foretell something positive, but this is not always the case, as indicated by the International Herald Tribune article linked in the external links section. Apparently, the authors of those fortunes would like to balance things with some darker sayings, but consumer complaints prevent them from doing so, but every once in a while something slips out.

For example, I got a "bad" fortune yesterday, which prompted me to read this Wikipedia article. The little slip of paper told me: "You will inherit an unexpected sum of money within the year." I am sure the writer of that fortune meant it in a positive way, but to me the message was "your loving parents will die" and I didn't like it at all. ~Amatulić (talk) 18:36, 6 August 2012 (UTC) now,2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.128.35.14 (talk) 23:28, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Other uses

You might want to keep your eyes open for other niches that the cookies fill. As a Literacy Volunteer, I went through a training course where we were given suggestions on assembling a bag of tricks to help keep the interest of the students. One suggestion was to bring fortune cookies to our sessions and using the student's fortune as a reading tool. Unfortunately, I can't find this tip on the 'Net tonight, but the it worked well and provided a tasty little snack, too. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 07:36, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Connection to mooncakes

The connection to mooncakes needs to be either supported with one or more credible citations, or else removed. If there are so "many" people who believe in the stated connection, it should be easy to find references; if they are not easy to find, it is a clear indication the statement is false (and must therefore be deleted). —DIV (120.19.1.177 (talk) 13:32, 22 September 2016 (UTC))

Asian Stereotype section

I do not believe the use of the term "stereotype" is appropriate as its not true as it is to say not Chinese. A stereotype for example would be Asian people eat nothing but rice. most lawyers are Jewish. a over generalization those are. i am not sure how it should be rephrased. thoughts? ... also not my goal to offend anyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elstevo1234 (talk • contribs) 07:09, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Cyril_M._Kornbluth - "MS. Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie" (1957)

"MS. Found in a Chinese Fortune Cookie" (1957) is supposedly written by Kornbluth using notes by "Cecil Corwin", who has been declared insane and incarcerated, and who smuggles out in fortune cookies the ultimate secret of life.

--79.153.133.130 (talk) 21:43, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Fortune cookies in Peru

Hi

Thanks for pulling me up. I was lazily thinking that would do as a citation because it would refer to an article that would probably have several. Having looked to take one of the citations I assumed would be there directly into the Fortune Cookie article - I find there aren't any.

I have looked for a RS for this and although the statement "In Peru, they are served in the chifas, Chinese-Peruvian fusion food restaurants" is often motioned in blogs (travel and culinary) and I can't find anything that could be said to be peer reviewed.

Would something like This be adequate?

I ask for future reference as this will probably come up again.

Thanks in anticipation.

LWB Lukewarmbeer (talk) 11:45, 18 November 2023 (UTC) TEDickey (talk) 15:28, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

The indicated article "Asian-Latino Identity and Cultural Exploration through Travel…and Food" mentions a source "The Fortune Cookie Chronicles: Adventures in the World of Chinese Food" – Jennifer 8. Lee (link) which may be useful here. The article itself does not seem to help TEDickey (talk) 15:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply.

I saw that when searching and It may do. I could buy or borrow it (I can't access the book itself in the Wiki library) and read it to find out... but that doesn't seem like much of a citation? Lukewarmbeer (talk) 16:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)