Talk:Florida State Seminoles football

suggested additions

Perhaps we could spell represents correctly? (As in, "The Florida State Seminoles football team representz..." from the first line of the Wiki article.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chirpbird (talk • contribs) 18:52, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Obviously, as a stub, there's a lot to be added; as a start, I suggest a section on FSU's many rivalries, their trophies, and histories. --216.9.250.6 22:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

First African American player

Please do not remove the historical information about the first African American player for the FSU Seminoles. Although many of the finest players are today of African American descent, prior to 1968 players of African American heritage were not permitted to join the team. Thus, this historical information is of great significance to presenting the full history of the team. Badagnani (talk) 04:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Loaded with original research.

especially the section on Miami rivalry. author needs to find references or self-edit to reduce NPOV and original research issues. BeBopnJazz (talk) 14:45, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:FloridaStateSeminoles.png

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Uniform Combinations

Regarding the image here [1]: of the 9 combinations shown, only the first through fifth combinations have ever been worn. Combinations 6-9 have not, and will not ever be used, as the black uniforms are only to be worn as a whole (as shown in the 3rd combination). Further, a version with white jersey and white pants, and a version with a garnet jersey and white pants, should both be shown (as both have been worn in the past). It should be changed AriGold (talk)

• I created this http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8862/fsuunis.jpg if someone can use it to replace the old image. This shows all of the uniforms used by the team. AriGold (talk)
  • I made the changes.AriGold (talk)
    • I reverted your changes. The point of the image isn't to show only the combinations that are worn. It's to show possible combinations. The main image in the template at the top of the page is for the real combinations, which is why it needs to include the Unconquered jersey. Also, uploading them as jpegs ruins the quality. --Kevin W. 19:02, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
      • It is possible that the Empire State Building will one day be converted into a rocketship and blast off to Mars, but as it stands that is not the case. Those uniform combinations with the black jerseys and pants used seperately have never been worn, and there is no plan to ever do so. Reverted back to actual uniform combinations that have been used.AriGold (talk)

I have been informed by Kevin W that his goal is to achieve "uniformity" with other colllege footabll pages. "Uniformity" over accuracy makes no sense to me. Showing uniforms that have NEVER BEEN WORN and that HAVE NO PLANS TO EVER BE WORN is silly. AriGold (talk) 12:55, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with AriGold. I understand the point Kevin W. makes that the infobox image is for uniforms worn, and the section within the article itself is for possible combinations, but I don't get why possible combinations need to be included in this or any article in the first place. This is the file (here) of Bucs' 1976-1996 uniform combinations, and there only two, neither of which are all orange. They almost wore them for one game in 1995, but they didn't, so should someone add an all orange combination to that file anyway? And since they're bringing back one of the throwback combinations for this coming season, that would make it possible that they could wear an orange jersey with pewter pants, but obviously (I would hope) they wouldn't ever do that. I thought the purpose of adding images to wikipedia of teams' uniform combinations was to show what combinations are worn, or have been worn in the past, not what could be worn. I wouldn't expect FSU to wear black jerseys with anything other than black pants since those are only worn for the "blackout" games. Tampabay721 (talk) 16:20, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Ari, one person does not mean that "other people" agree with you. And please, go ahead and remove all of the work JohnnySeoul and I have put into all of the college football articles. Please do so. I'm sure it will make the articles so much better.--Kevin W. 19:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually that's exactly what it means. Another contributor agreeing with me is another person. I don't care what you've done with all of your articles. I care about the accuracy of this one. AriGold (talk) 20:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, I've got people who'll probably back me up as well, so don't get your hopes up. In the meantime, can you please at least use PNG images and the proper nomenclature? Your jpegs are very distorted and there's a proper nomenclature for the uniform images that extends across all of them, college or otherwise. --Kevin W. 20:22, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I've also asked a mod to come in and help.AriGold (talk) 20:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

As I said, can you at least fix the images in the interim? --Kevin W. 20:29, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't know how. Why is the helmet at the top of the article a .gif if only .png files are the norm? Honest question, dont understand the difference between all of them. AriGold (talk) 20:31, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

PS Sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. I just don't understand using something that is "possible" when it is not going to occur. I will not revert any changes made from here on, hopefully a consensus will be reached and the mod will be able to help. Any changes from here on can be at your chosing. I do understand the hard work you've put into all of this.AriGold (talk) 20:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

• Adult solution: 2 pictures, 1 designated as "uniforms currently in use" and 1 designated "unused but possible uniform combinations."? AriGold (talk) 20:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

• That's what the current system I'm advocating for is. The "uniforms currently in use" go at the top of the page and the "unused but possible" image goes at the bottom. Also, it's that all of the images have to be pngs, it's just the uniform images. --Kevin W. 20:55, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Let me please be the voice of reason. The uniform in the main template should be the current uniforms worn (uniform pant combination are not "alternates"). The Uniforms and Logos section's uniform combination should be the jersey/pant combos that will or have been worn in an actual game. On a side note, lets please try to keep the images as .png files. When they are switched to .jpg, they look really bad. I hope this helps clear things up in this discussion and thank you for all of those that are helping with the college uniforms. Johnny "Seoul" Factor (talk) 22:31, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree. There is no reason to put on display all possible color permutations of uniforms -- especially those that have never been used. TrbleClef ♮ (talk) 23:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand; why are imaginary uniforms being shown? It seems to me that WP:NOTCRYSTAL also applies. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:08, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

• I think only the actually used uniforms should be displayed. The rest is a guess, even to the point of original research, and cannot be properly referenced. --Sirberus (talk) 20:43, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Current/Former NFL players

Is it really necessary to have such a long list like that? Tampabay721 (talk) 18:08, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Suggest we remove or retitle the Clemson "rivalry"

Truthfully the only rivalry FSU ever had with Clemson was when both Bowdens were coaching against each other. Virginia Tech or even Virginia (Jefferson-Eppes Trophy, first ACC loss) are more notable "rivals" against Florida State. I think it should be moved/retitled Bowden Bowl, because it will not be a rivalry again, not with Bobby retired and Tommy fired. I think if you asked a Florida State fan on the street who the FSU rivals are, they'd say UF and Miami. I'm an FSU fan, and I think it's pretty ridiculous to consider Clemson a rival when the only rivalry was media hype over a father-son coaching matchup. There is relatively little history of real competition between these two teams, especially with FSU holding a 14-2 record over the first 16 games out of a 25-game series. I'm not positive, but I don't think Clemson fans feel they have a rivalry with Florida State, either. 68.59.126.206 (talk) 09:58, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

History of Helmets

Do we really need the history of the helmets section on this page? It is very interesting and would be good to have the text and a few pictures on the page but I don't think all of them are needed. If someone thinks we should leave it, the section needs a definite cleanup as right now it looks awful and should be made to look more clean and not so spaced out. Libalaustin1990 (talk) 05:01, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I think it is a cool section but really does need a serious clean-up. Perhaps we could use a table with the year, description, and then a smaller thumbnail of the helmet which can be clicked on for a bigger image. It would be a lot nicer looking. I'll try and work on it in a sandbox but I'm not sure I have the wiki skills for tables yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ayzmo (talk • contribs) 17:19, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I've been working on it a bit and I hope you guys like it. I put everything into a table. I can't seem to get the 1962 helmets to sit next to each other though. If anyone knows how to fix that it would be awesome. Comments, fixes, suggestions, etc all appreciated. Ayzmo (talk) 21:25, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

That looks a lot better great job! I'm not sure how you can fix the '62 section either though but I think it would be ok to go ahead and post it and then perhaps someone will see what you have done and add onto it/make some modifications to benefit the subsection. I'll try to play with it some too in the next couple of days to see if it's possible to improve at all but I like what you've done so far! Libalaustin1990 (talk) 06:07, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Another thing we could possibly do to make it look better is put some color in it like some of the other tables on the page. Just a suggestion lemme know what ya think. Libalaustin1990 (talk) 04:15, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

That sounds great to me. My knowledge of wikitables is incredibly limited but I'll look into it. If you, or anyone else, wants to go for it feel free :) Ayzmo (talk) 04:38, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone know what we can do about the helmet picture being deleted? Where could we get a replacement? Anyone good with rendering? Ayzmo (talk) 20:10, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

See this. The problem is being worked on. Nolelover ^{Talk·Contribs} 21:04, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Nav box standardization

The rigid standardization of football team nav box templates is being discussed at College football Wikiproject. Editors pursuing this standardization have already significantly altered the FSU football navbox, and you may wish to review these changes and add your input. CrazyPaco (talk) 08:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Florida St OLD16.gif Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Lists of former players

Is it just me, or do some of these lists consisting of former players make the article excessively long? Tampabay721 (talk) 04:17, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Not only is this article massively long (trimming it is on my far-off to-do list) but that list already exists at List_of_Florida_State_University_people#Football. I've reverted the addition. Nolelover ^{Talk·Contribs} 14:17, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Bob Crenshaw Award Listing

Do we really need to list every player who has won since there is an article that is already linked with a list of all of the winners. I'm only asking and not just deleting since that section has been on the page for quite some time. Libalaustin1990 (talk) 01:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Too much useless information.

This page has gotten out of control with the amount of useless information about FSU football there is on it. It needs some major trimming down and section either completely removed or make another separate page for the topics covered.

Unclaimed national titles

According to [[2]], FSU has 5 unclaimed national titles by major selectors (1980, 1987, 1992, 1994, 1996). I'm going to remove 1988, 1989, 1990, 1997, 1998 until someone comes up with good sources that Florida State was selected as national champions those years. Johnsmithgeneric (talk) 00:18, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

"Controversies" section problems

The length and detail of the Jameis Winston "scandal" text is disproportionate to the relative length and detail of the article as a whole per WP:WEIGHT/WP:UNDUE. This is an article about the Florida State Seminoles football team, not Jameis Winston as an individual, nor his on-going indiscretions and legal problems. In its present form, the Winston scandal text threatens to subsume the article, which is not appropriate. Major scandals such as the FSU academic cheating problem deserve mention in the text, but not to the extent they are clearly intended to swamp the article as a whole with over-emphasis of negative coverage of the program. One of the problems with "controversies" sections within team and player articles is that they are used by partisan-fan editors to intentionally swamp the team article with negative trivia about player suspensions and/or arrests for typical undergraduate stupidity like term paper plagiarism, traffic and parking tickets, suspended licenses, bar fights, marijuana use, etc. Most of this kind of negative trivia belongs in the player bio articles, or should not be included at all. Much of what is now included in the FSU football "controversies" section needs to be critically reviewed, significantly reduced or removed completely. I urge the edit-warring parties to discuss these issues here on this talk page, issue by issue, detail by detail -- article talk page consensus should determine what is included, what level of detail is appropriate, and whether some "controversies" should be removed and/or transferred to player bio articles. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:36, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• Looks like the makings of an edit war. Let's not have that. Dirtlawyer is correct that the section is too long and disproportionate to the article. If that much detail is necessary and warranted (key word is "if") then a new article is in line. Please discuss before making any more edits.--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:56, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• I believe all those controversies should be removed from the team's page. Certain editors are using this opportunity to swamp the page with negativity out of their own personal agenda against the Seminoles. These scandals apply not to Florida State University or the Florida State Seminoles as a whole but to those specific players. Each scandal should go the specific person's page.--SeminoleNation (talk) 21:41, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• I'm glad it's Dirtlawyer and not someone with a username like my own bringing this up</joke> but I certainly agree. There's a massive difference between scandals that are concerned with the program as a whole, versus players. None of the stuff about Winston, Cook or Johnson really belong, although I actually think the material removed from the Academic cheating scandal could be reinserted. Nolelover ^{Talk·Contribs} 23:34, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Dirtlawyer1, first of all I'd like to apologize for editing the Gators page. I was frustrated with the user that kept on adding minor items to the controversy area of the page, even going so far as to add the "bar ban" to the section. I looked at a lot of the other major programs pages that have had issues and noticed no mention of minor arrests/accusations and felt it was unfair for the Seminoles page to include such material.I edited the Gators page because I was looking for a reason why arrests/accusations need not be included and you provided that with the WP:WEIGHT reasoning. Thank you for your help. Nolelover, regarding the cheating scandal I shortened it because I felt the mention of it alone was enough. For example, the OSU football page has very little information of the sanctions that they faced, let alone an entire "controversy section".Gata098765432345 (talk) 23:54, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

No reason to apologize, Gata. If recounting every individual player screw-up is overkill for the Gators team article, it's overkill for the Seminoles team article, too. You don't know me, but ask Nolelover: I play it down the middle, and I don't play silly fan games with the articles of the Gators' rivals, either. I did a little back-tracking in the last 24 hours and found this. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:22, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

• If y'all will accept some unsolicited advice on how to deal with major scandals in the Seminoles team article, deal with them in a factual, straightforward manner that is proportionate to the entire team article. It does not have to recite every detail, but should deal with the major consequences for the team. In the case of the FSU tutor/cheating scandal, that resulted in forfeited games for the team. You can't ignore that in the history of the program. If you want a sample of how I dealt with the two major scandals in the history of the Gators football team, read the history subsection titled "Pell–Hall era (1979–89)". Don't try to ignore major scandals, but keep them in proportion, which is a lot easier to do if you treat them in the context of the seasons in which they occurred, not in a separate "controversies" section that becomes a magnet for every negative news story.

I'll be watching this discussion. Let me know what I can do to help, including mediating if necessary. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:15, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

• I think the controversies section should be eliminated and incorporated into the rest of the page. The mascot issue if kept could go under the area talking about Osceola and Renegade. The Free Shoes issue could either be put under the Bowden era or the Florida rivalry area. And the academic cheating scandal and its consequences to the team could go under the Bowden era.Gata098765432345 (talk) 03:01, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

• I think those are excellent ideas, Gata. Remember to footnote the new text with the best available news sources, and get the input of your fellow editors. I will be happy to review the changes as a non-FSU editor.

Also, regarding the "controversies" over the Osceola and Renegade mascots and the Seminoles nickname, I think some mention should be incorporated in the relevant article sections, either of the football team article or the parent FSU athletics program article, but I don't see them as negatives in any way. FSU has a long cooperative and mutually supportive history with the Florida Seminoles tribe, with sponsored scholarships for members of the tribe, an increased emphasis on accuracy in its representations of the Seminoles in its mascot and other university imagery. The Seminole tribe rallied to the defense of FSU when the NCAA was on its politically correct crusade to purge all native American mascots several years ago, and endorsed FSU's continued use of the Seminoles nickname. It should be treated as a positive. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:10, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

SeminoleNation, Nolelover Alright guys I went ahead and made the changes I had suggested and eliminated the controversies section which should deter people from adding individual player arrests/accusations. Look over it and make changes you'd like. The Free Shoes U incident was put under the Florida rivalry. Thanks for all your help Dirtlawyer1. Gata098765432345 (talk) 22:00, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

New information about the Jameis Winston's scandal has been published, so I think Wikipedia must reconsider reinstate that part of the Controversies section. And why the Controversies section was deleted and Miami Hurricanes football's is still there? Leo Bonilla (talk) 23:34, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Changing the "alternate logo" with the official primary Seminole head logo

How can we change the logo currently used in this article with the actual Seminoles logo? I see that both the University of Florida and University of Miami athletics articles all use their primary logo. This isn't consistent at all since the Football team doesn't even use this logo on anything.--SeminoleNation (talk) 06:52, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Please see this for the discussion: Wikipedia:Non-free content review/Archive 65#File:FSU Seminoles logo.png. It violates WP:NFCC#8, WP:NFC#UUI §14 and WP:NFC#UUI §17 according to the discussion. Please do not revert again. Corkythehornetfan 19:18, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

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FSU Bowl game Streak.

Florida State has played in 35 straight bowl games. However, with the Academic cheating scandal in 2007, The Ncaa does not recognize the win against UCLA claiming the win does not count and the longest bowl game streak goes to Virgina Tech. Other outlets and FSU both still claim the streak and it's factual that FSU has played in the most consecutive bowl games. I see the other side of the argument that since it is not recognized by the Ncaa it should be removed. I argue this from multiple points; first being that the Ncaa does not reflective what has happened and can not change history that has occurred, the same being with Reggie Bush winning the Heisman or the USC national title year or even schools claiming national titles the Ncaa does not recognize. Second is media outlets still claims it as the longest streak which can be ref. The third is when other issues have occurred in this type of situation where two sources go against each other is still posted but noted. My recommended action is for it to be posted but noted as well. It stays true to what is accurate and current with factual history while posting out that it is challenged by a governing body. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KillerFrosty (talk • contribs) 00:25, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

This was already decided on the Bowl game page. Your Reggie Bush/USC and national title claim examples are moot since the NCAA has control over bowl game records (unlike awards and national title claims). What media outlets claim on this subject is irrelevant. The NCAA most certainly can change history when it comes to certain things and they've vacated not only wins but appearances as well (such as USC's loss to Texas in the 2006 Rose Bowl). As I said before, this was already decided on the Bowl game page under History and there's nothing about "official/unofficial" or "NCAA recognized" for Virginia Tech. You have an obvious bias being an FSU student or alum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.53.212 (talk) 02:23, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Your own comments and one other does not dictate the outcome because it suits your own narrative and gain. I am a Historian, I have no issue with it being denoted or challenged. The history should be reported the same, Florida State has played in 35 straight bowl games and the streak is still ongoing. The Ncaa can not remove what has happened and what is ongoing, only put a * next to it. To sweep something under a rug because it does not fit something and try to erase history is a sad notion. Do we erase Joe Paterno, or University of Marshall plane crash because of a sense of morality or one's judgment? That is something for individuals to make on their own will, not something to be hidden or swept away. The Ncaa, a governing body, or other outlets should not dictate what has happened. That should be up to oneself to judge with facts that people are able to bring to the table. What you or I, or anything else agrees with or not agree with should not be able to manipulate and try to change history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KillerFrosty (talk • contribs) 03:58, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

What you or I think doesn't matter. The bottom line is the NCAA has control over certain things and that includes bowl records. It was already decided on the Bowl game page (History section, fourth paragraph, last sentence). You only have a problem with it because it involves your school. FSU's football program has plenty of real history to be proud of, why keep claiming something that's factually not true per the governing body of the sport? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.248.239.227 (talk) 18:15, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

I SUPPORT the posting of this but being noted. Like KillerFrosty says, it stays true to what is accurate and current with factual history while posting out that it is challenged by a governing body. Also, the NCAA can't rewrite history no matter what some of you guys think. There is no bias here. This is an encyclopedia which should contain factual information. If you go back and look up one of the IP addresses of one these guys that have been vandalizing this page it's clear they have a huge bias towards Virginia Tech so I don't understand why you're calling KillerFrosty out. You can't hide your contributions on wikipedia. I vote to keep the fact that FSU still indeed has longest bowl game streak(fact) but make a note about what was revoked.--SeminoleNation (talk) 18:44, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

It's NOT a fact though. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Bowl_game#History I'm shocked that a user named SeminoleNation wants to disregard the consequences of FSU getting caught cheating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.53.212 (talk) 19:28, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

It is a fact that FSU has played in 35 straight bowl games. The Ncaa is trying to claim it did not happen from the Academic cheating scandal, the only argument that has been brought up is oh in BOWL game history wiki and the Ncaa does not claim it so it should be removed. The bowl game wiki it was talked about by very few users that few people knew about. I believe Seminolenation is agreement with me we that the truth should be posted and don't mind a note or a * and such claiming the Ncaa does not recognize it. You are trying To change history instead of noting what has happened. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KillerFrosty (talk • contribs) 21:20, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Another FSU student or alum is agreeing with you? I'm SHOCKED. Again, take it up with governing body of the sport that you agreed to be part of. Other schools like Florida and USC don't claim stuff that was taken away because of cheating. It would do you some good to read the NCAA bylaws instead of Jim Bob's personal CFB site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.53.212 (talk) 03:01, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't see why it can't be included along with mentioning that the NCAA doesn't recognize the 2007 bowl game. As for the "factual" argument, Wikipedia operates on verifiability, not truth. Whether or not something actually happened is irrelevant. If independent sources recognize the streak, it's worth mentioning. But it would be impossible to ignore the NCAA, the ultimate governing body in college athletics. Therefore that asterisk should always be there, be it literally or in the form of a "However, the NCAA..." Lizard (talk) 15:57, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

It's disregarding the punishment for cheating, plain and simple. Governing body of the sport > "independent" sources that are wrong. They have NOT played in 35 consecutive bowl games, that's a fact. Other schools don't try and claim stuff that's blatantly not true. You choose to be a member of the NCAA, you play by their rules and agreements. "In compliance with the intention of the Committee On Infractions penalties, all team and coaches’ streaks (such as wins, postseason appearances, team statistical streaks, and so on) are terminated by the vacancy of a contest." This was already decided by another admin on the Bowl game page under the History section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.53.212 (talk) 16:27, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Again there's no such thing as "right" and "wrong" on Wikipedia; there is only verifiability. If independent, reliable sources say Florida State has played in 35 consecutive bowl games, then they have. If the NCAA says they didn't play in a bowl in 2006, then that also needs to be mentioned. From what I gather the NCAA vacated Florida State's win in the 2006 Emerald Bowl, not their appearance. If Florida State had lost that game there would have been nothing to vacate. The game still happened. Lizard (talk) 18:57, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Except it already says that Virginia Tech has the longest active streak on both the Bowl game page and the Virginia Tech Hokies football page. You're wrong too, their appearance was also vacated (see USC vacating their appearance in the 2006 Rose Bowl despite losing). See page 153 of the latest records book (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/2016/Bowls.pdf). Even the school itself stopped claiming the streak and ESPN stopped recognizing it years ago too. Saying that an outside source is "independent" or "reliable" is completely subjective (especially the latter). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.53.212 (talk) 19:24, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I recommend the solution to this argument is what I recommend above. Posting the factional information and then noting that the Ncaa does not recognize it. It leaves the information for both parties, wich is up for the individual to decide if it is relevant or not. I would also recommend this to be in the bowl game wiki as well since this was hardly talked about in the discussion talk page in the bowl game wiki. KillerFrosty (talk) 19:36, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

What the governing body of the sport (on top of ESPN since you're so big on media sources) IS relevant though, whether you like it or not. Notice how on the Florida Gators football page that it doesn't say anything about being 1984 SEC champion because it was vacated despite other "independent and reliable sources" still crediting them as 1984 SEC champion. Notice how it doesn't say 35 bowl wins on the USC Trojans football page despite other "independent and reliable" sources saying they have 35. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.53.212 (talk) 19:48, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

For the example you gave http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_Southeastern_Conference_champions#Football It is there and clear states vacated for the Florida Gators for the 1984 title. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_Heisman_Trophy_winners Regie Bush says vacated. I agree with this setup, you state the information and clearly note it. As well on the http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_USC_Trojans_bowl_games Shows the game won and clearly states vacated KillerFrosty (talk) 20:07, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I agree with KillerFrosty on his recommendation to keep it and put a note. He has made very valid points. Both of those teams still have their history showing up on Wikipedia and rightfully so. Florida State should as well.--SeminoleNation (talk) 21:28, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

That's because the NCAA doesn't have control over those things. They DO with bowl records. Why do y'all keep ignoring that fact? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.53.212 (talk) 22:32, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Fine, why don't y'all go edit the Florida Gators football page to showing 9 SEC titles instead of 8 on the sidebar? http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Florida_Gators_football Put your money where you mouth is and walk the walk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.53.212 (talk) 22:58, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

First off go to the Florida football wiki page and read under conf championships. It clearly states for you Florida won in 1984 and it got taken away. It might not be in the info box but it is shown and noted that they did indeed win the sec title in 1984. KillerFrosty (talk) 06:50, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

If we were creating a list of the longest consecutive bowl streaks, I would say to exclude Florida State's streak. But all we're doing is mentioning (fairly far down in the article, might I add) that some sources still count their streak despite it not being recognized by the NCAA. This wouldn't be giving Florida State any undue credit. It's stating the facts, which are that Florida State has physically played in 35 straight bowl games but the NCAA doesn't recognize this streak because one game was vacated. I consider myself a relatively hardcore college football fan and I wasn't aware of this sanction, and I'd imagine there are many others who aren't. So it makes no sense to wipe out all mention of it. Lizard (talk) 16:38, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

I agree with KillerFrosty in that their streak should be posted as 35 straight appearances but with the circumstances noted. Kobra98 (talk) 05:19, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Multiple WP:RS support FSU's 35 game streak. Report as such, but reflect the NCAA's view based on the vacation without turning this minor issue into a new WP:UNDUE issue.

Double dagger symbol in schedules

I've seen the double dagger (‡) being used throughout Florida State football article schedules without explanation. I'm struggling to figure out what the marked games would represent, maybe some sort of homecoming type game? If it is to be used, it should be explained in the key. Ostealthy (talk) 14:08, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Material removed from this article

I put quite a bit of time in assembling documentation and writing the following 18,800 characters and it bugs me that the War Chant, Hymns, and the like are worthy of being included, but all of the following, in one vanished person’s opinion, is unimportant and deletable.

There may be some work of others in this, and I apologize if I’m not giving proper credit. My imperfect memory is that it is primarily my own work.

The Talk Page is where improvements to an article can be discussed, and I think the article would be improved if this were included. So I’ve put it here. It needs updating.

Since you’re curious, @Seminolenation, my connection with FSU is that I was Distinguished Research Professor before my retirement. I was today honored with the Wikipedia Editor of the Week award. deisenbe (talk) 22:11, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

______________________________________

On January 5, 2010 the NCAA Infractions Appeals Committee denied FSU's appeal and ruled that all penalties, including vacating up to fourteen wins during the 2006–2007 seasons, would remain in effect. FSU officials responded that they were surprised and disappointed by the NCAA decision and felt that their own investigation and self-imposed penalties were sufficient. The NCAA Infractions Appeals Committee responded that "the cooperative efforts of the university in the academic cheating scandal involving 61 Florida State athletes failed to outweigh the aggravating factors in the case." The games to be vacated will be determined by certifying in which of the 14 games any of the 25 ineligible players competed.

A total of 12 wins were eventually vacated in all.

Sexual assault allegation

Winston was the subject of criticism and controversy during his time at the university.

On November 14, 2013, it was announced that the Florida State Attorney’s Office would re-open an investigation involving freshman quarterback Jameis Winston with regard to an alleged sexual assault that was originally filed on December 7, 2012. The incident involving Winston was originally investigated by the Tallahassee Police Department and closed in February 2013 with no charges being filed. The Tallahassee Police Department has posted its report, containing the alleged victim's initial statement, online. The local prosecutor, William N. Meggs, was highly critical of the Tallahassee police, and stated that the police "just missed all the basic fundamental stuff you are supposed to do", although he added that a better investigation might have yielded the same result. According to the New York Times, there was virtually no investigation at all, either by the police or the university. Important evidence was lost. On December 5, 2013, it was announced that the State Attorney's Office had completed its investigation and would not be filing charges. In April 2014, the New York Times published a lengthy article on what it called "a flawed rape investigation". According to that article, Georgia Cappleman, the chief assistant state attorney, said "I have personal concerns about what happened in that room that night, but that’s completely separate from whether I’m able to prove a crime occurred." On October 11, 2014, FSU made a public statement in the case, in the form of an open letter sent to "members of the Florida State University community" and the media. According to CBS Sports, Winston's relationship with the FSU administration (except the Athletic Department) has become "adversarial", and head coach Jimbo Fisher has resisted pressure from above to suspend Winston. Fox Sports reported that FSU gave documents concerning the alleged sexual assault to Winston's attorney before giving them to the local prosecutor's office, and stated that FSU is under investigation by the U.S. Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights, concerning whether the university’s administrators complied with the requirements of the federal gender-equity law known as Title IX, which requires schools to immediately investigate allegations of sexual assault and domestic violence. The Office for Civil Rights confirmed that Florida State is one of 91 schools under Title IX investigation but declined to comment further.

FSU held a disciplinary hearing on December 2-3, 2014 to determine whether Winston was guilty of four charges of violating the FSU Student Conduct Code, two for sexual misconduct and two for endangerment. FSU employed former state Supreme Court justice Major B. Harding, who had no link to Florida State, to conduct the hearing. He reviewed over 1,000 pages of testimony and evidence. According to the victim's opening statement, she clearly pleaded with him to stop. She said she has faced death threats, her parents' home and work addresses have been made public, purportedly by angry Seminoles fans, and that she felt she had to withdraw from Florida State; she has since enrolled at another college. Winston and his Seminole player roommates Chris Casher and Ronald Darby, who were eyewitnesses to the alleged assault, refused to answer questions at the hearing; under the FSU Student Conduct Code they were not required to. Winston made a five-page written statement, in which he stated that the victim had "demanded" $7,000,000 from him, and answered two brief questions by Harding, stating that "moaning" showed the alleged victim's consent.

On December 22, 2014, the results of the hearing were announced. Harding found that the evidence presented by both sides was "irreconcilable", that accuser and Winston's versions of events had equal credibility, and that, therefore, the burden of proof was not met. He cleared Winston of all charges of violating the FSU Student Conduct Code. Harding's concluding statement has been posted online by Fox Sports.

Law enforcement accusation

On October 10, 2014, an in-depth article in the New York Times stated that what happened with Winston was "far from an aberration" at FSU, because "the police on numerous occasions have soft-pedaled allegations of wrongdoing by Seminole football players". The Tallahassee Police have opened an Internal Affairs investigation.

Domestic violence allegation

On October 25, 2014, the Tallahassee Police Department received an email from Florida State general counsel Carolyn Egan about social media posts that accused running back Karlos Williams of physically assaulting his pregnant ex-girlfriend or on about October 22. On October 27, 2014, Tallahassee police announced that Williams was under investigation, and according to the police report, the alleged victim stated on Facebook:

Domestic violence is NEVER okay. And I have learned why women keep secrets and scared [sic] to come forward, I'm ashamed to say I did the same thing. But I am ready to speak up for women in situations life [sic] myself. I pray one day everyone see [sic] your true colors and for what you really are. This was done to me 2 nights ago by a man I have lived with for two years and bared [sic] two children by. Hopefully therapy will help you one day fix this and your sons never even work their hands to hurt a women [sic], mind you a pregnant woman, to this extent.

Three pictures which appeared to show bruising on someone's arm were posted with this comment.

Head football coach Jimbo Fisher canceled his previously scheduled news conference that day, and called this "another false report" and said that "that is about as far from the truth as there is". The alleged victim, who had taken down the Facebook posting "because of all the feedback", refused to give a statement to police and requested that no charges be filed, although under Florida law, the alleged victim's position does not preclude domestic violence charges. On October 27, the alleged victim announced that she was withdrawing as a student at FSU. On November 11, the Tallahassee Police Department annnounced that it was no longer investigating the allegations, and that unless "new information comes forward", it considered the matter "open/inactive at this time".

Indefinite suspension of Dalvin Cook

In July 2015, Florida State indefinitely suspended leading running back Dalvin Cook after he was charged with punching a woman in the face repeatedly at a Tallahassee bar on June 23, 2015.

Suspension, then dismissal of De'Andre Johnson

Quarterback De'Andre Johnson was indefinitely suspended from the team in June, 2015, following a charge of misdemeanor battery for punching a 21-year-old woman in the face during an argument in a Tallahassee bar on June 24. After a video of the altercation was posted on a Tallahassee Democrat Web site and was then released by the state attorney's office, coach Jimbo Fisher dismissed him from the team in July.

According to FOX Sports, the Tallahassee Police Department has been criticized for allegedly showing partiality to Johnson.

Bars made "off limits" to Seminole football players

In a meeting on July 11, 2015, Coach Fisher told the players that bars were now off limits.

References

"Stephen Gabbard" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Stephen Gabbard. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Eagles 24/7 (C) 14:30, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

2023 National Championship

96.18.224.137, has any publication declared Florida State as national champions for 2023? I get being upset that FSU didn't get into the playoffs, but I cannot find ANY source for this. Nor would I expect someone declare a national champion before the bowls. Esb5415 (talk) 19:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

No absolutely not, and any editor adding that needs to be reverted until after the bowl season (at minimum). Alyo (chat·edits) 23:35, 3 December 2023 (UTC)