Talk:Flipp Dinero

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 13 March 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Blasianmanda. Peer reviewers: Kelleyschiedler, Sihern Han.

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Initial work

Hi I have made many edits in order to improve this article's quality, I have moved edits from my sandbox User:Blasianmanda/Flipp Dinero onto original article.Blasianmanda (talk) 09:20, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hipal: I’ve gone through and carefully edited the page to try to address your concerns. Benjamin Mako Hill (my instructor in the course that I am working on this article for) has done a quick pass as well. I think I have addressed issues with the promotional tone. I have also removed almost all of the links to primary sources and things like Soundcloud etc. I included these because I was modeling this article off of others (like the One Direction and G Herbo article) that include them. There are some Youtube that I’ve left which are to interviews which help provide references for factual content that I think are appropriate for an encyclopedia article and that are mentioned in the interview video. I’ve tried to make my edits and bring them over in a series of smaller chunks (paragraph by paragraph). If you have additional concerns, please let me know on this page and I will attempt to address those other issues. Blasianmanda (talk) 03:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop the edit-warring.

Famousbirthsdeaths.com is not a reliable source. Do not use it yet again.

Primary sources, such as interviews, without support from independent sources, should be used with care if at all. Wikipedia is not a soapbox, echoing what people have to say about themselves. --Hipal/Ronz (talk) 01:04, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Blasianmanda: Hipal is right about famousbirthdeaths.com and and is also right that you shouldn't add material that has been reverted without discussing it here first.

Hipal: First, I think it's totally appropriate (and in line with WP:INTERVIEW) to include information about how Flipp Dinero got involved in music supported with references from interviews from major industry sources (HOT 97 counts). Of course, other secondary sources are better but information on how he got started in music singing gospel seem encyclopedic, non-promotional, and harmless. For sure, the text should be rephrased they are less statements of fact and more descriptions of what the subject has seen but these are minor changes and those should be made without just reverting the whole paragraph.

Also, Blasianmanda asked you to discuss changes here and you responding by reverting her contributions with curt edit summaries and messages. She made it clear that she's a WP:NEWBIE and she's obviously still learning her way around but she is absolutely working in good faith and trying to improve the article and learn how to contribute. She has told me off-wiki that she feels bitten by you and it's easy for me to see why. Her contributions are far from perfect but we should work with her to fix them. —mako ๛ 07:19, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do remember that Wikipedia is not a lab. As I already pointed out, I don't think anyone not very familiar with Wikipedia's content policies should be making major changes to BLPs, and certainly not new editors working on a schedule for a grade.

Further WP:CHOICE says, Wikipedia is a volunteer community and does not require the Wikipedians to give any more time and effort than they wish. Focus on improving the encyclopedia itself, rather than demanding more from other Wikipedians.

I've gone ahead and added this article to my watchlist. Prior, I was simply finding the article due to the use of the unreliable source.

You should be telling your students, especially if they work on BLPs or topics under sanctions, to work in small edits with descriptive edit summaries.

As for working from interviews and the like, we should follow WP:ABOUTSELF and avoid acting as a soapbox. --Hipal/Ronz (talk) 16:49, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not using Wikipedia as a lab. I'm using my role as a long-time Wikipedian and a Professor at the University of Washington as an opportunity to bring more editors into Wikipedia. Today, more than 20% of Wikipedia editors accounts active a month after creation come from the Wiki Ed engagement programs in classroom settings like mine. This isn't an experiment. It's an attempt to improve Wikipedia by bringing in new editors and its one of the very few things that is working.

I pointed all students in my class toward information on editing BLPs [1] and advised them to move things over in small chunks with descriptive edit summaries [2]. I also recognize that students have done literally hours of training and sometimes newbies don't get it right the first time. That's why we have policies like WP:BITE. I understand that it can be frustrating to deal with the mess created by good faith newcomers still learning the ropes but I think that keeping them engaged is at least important to Wikipedia's future as the other tasks we do to keep the encyclopedia in good shape today.

WP:CHOICE suggests you get to make your own decisions about when and where to engage but a raft of other policies strongly suggests that repeatedly removing content that contains that, at a minimum, some partially valuable information after a good faith newbies has made an attempt to address your feedback and explicitly asked to discuss things on the talk page is out of line (WP:BRD and WP:BITE to start).

Your welcome to your opinion that newbies shouldn't edit WP:BLPs. I see your point but I disagree. Editing activity on English Wikipedia has been in decline since 2007 and best research on the topic suggests that the reason is increased rates of newcomer rejection leading to low rates of newcomers rejection. I don't know if Blasianmanda is going to stick around but if she does not, it will be in large part because of this experience. —mako ๛ 19:45, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to your opinions as well.

Let's WP:FOC.

I'll repeat: We need to follow WP:ABOUTSELF and avoid acting as a soapbox. Small edits with clear edit-summaries allow others to work more easily together. --Hipal/Ronz (talk) 00:55, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]