Talk:Excel Saga/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Excel Saga. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Corrections

Does Hyatt actually die? I kind of got the impression that she just fainted a lot. -- Darac 18:08, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

My mistake. In Episode 5, Excel wonders about Hyatt's habit of dying. -- Darac 08:27, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Somebody else has already corrected it, but for the record: Quack Experimental Anime Excel Saga really is the series' actual title, not a value judgement by the author/s of this article. --Paul A 04:35, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

On a related note, no one had any comments so I went ahead and added some information about Weird Anime Excel Saga. It's not clear where the other name came from (I think it was from fan translations but I couldn't verify this), but it is definately widely accepted as an alternate title for the series and many people know it exclusively by that name. Jared Grainger 17:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

ACROSS vs Across

Does anyone know if the organization's name is ACROSS (i.e. an acronym of something) or simply Across (the word)? If it's an acronym, an ideas on what it stands for? --Darac Marjal 09:30, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It isn't an acronym, but it is properly ACROSS. According to the footnotes in Viz's english release of Excel Saga Volume 1 (manga), it is a pun on a organization called ACROS (if memory serves). MardukZero 03:38, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Correct. From TFA: ACROSS itself is named after the ACROS (Asian CrossRoads Over the Sea) Jongpil Yun 07:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Gundam?

In the episode guide, it says that Episode 22 is of the same vein as Gundam. Admittedly, I haven't seen Gundam, but to me Episode 22 seems extremely inspired by Captain Harlock. Can someone who has seen Gundam comment on this?

I see that the page notes it is in the vein of Gundam and Leiji Matsumoto (at least now, it does). While the Matsumoto parodies were more obvious and common, there were numerous Gundam references and parodies as well (such as the Puuchu Gundam Excel pilots and a handful of character/event references). Also, it's the same general tone. MardukZero 03:38, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

As far as I can tell (I haven't seen any of these), they just grabbed a buncha different references and clummed 'em together with Excel and Hyatt running around beneath it. Kinda like Spaceballs, or just about anything by Mel Brooks for that matter, except more ... direct. --Yar Kramer 05:28, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there are many Gundam references in this episode. Lines from Char, Amuro and other scenes from Gundam are parodied. These are quite direct and obvious references for anyone who has watched Gundam in the original japanese. Gundam is also parodied in the Excel Saga manga. --Schopenhauer7

But don't forget the masks! --maru (talk) contribs 19:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I was under the influence this episode was parodying Star Wars :p (X-Wings, Death Stars), like when Excel is leaving on the fighter you see the white haired puuchu saying good luck. That scene is reminiscent of Star Wars when luke first flies the fighter plane. Although I am not disagreeing with the blatant Gundam references --Genjix

Actually that very scene (the one with the white haired puchu saying good luck) is also a Gundam reference. Excel gets in the puchu gundam and after jumping around a bit looks up, gets this melancholy look on her face and says the following:

でもこうやって戦いに慣れていくのね。

demo kouyatte tatakai ni nareteikunone.　

As I have never seen the translation I am not sure how AD Vision did this but it should have read something like "but this is how we get used to battle"

This is parodying a line spoken by Sayla Mass in Gundam (I don't have the ep number off hand)

Right after that Excel says what must seem like nonsense to someone who hasn’t seen Gundam but makes perfect sense if you have:

わたしはあの人に勝ちたい

watashi ha ano hito ni kachitai

ADV should have went something like "I want to beat/win against him"

This is parodying one of Amuro's famous lines (I believe Amuro actually said "ぼくはあの人に勝ちたい"). Amuro was actually talking about Ramba Ral but Excel is probably just whipping out famous Gundam lines for comedic effect. Although it is also likely that they chose this particular line on purpose because of the Pedro side story. The person who Pedro ends up fighting against is referred to as "ano hito" (once again not sure what ADV did here "him" "that person" something like that)

Now we are at the "good luck" scene. The white puchu comes on the screen and says:

あなたならできるわ。頑張って。

anatanara dekiruwa. ganbatte.

ADV prob went something like "you can do it. good luck"

This is actually a parody of (once again) Sayla Mass who says the very same thing to Amuro (Amuro liked being told that about as much as Excel)

OK after that scene the puchu fighters are launched and then we switch to Excel once again. She is sitting in the cockpit and says:

エクセル、行きます！

EKUSERU, ikimasu!

(Really not sure what ADV did here as this line just doesn't work in English but maybe they said something like "Here I go" or "Excel is going" or "Excel launch" or something (you just can't do this justice in English))

Now this is THE Gundam reference. It is what Amuro says when he launches out of White Base in Gundam (although not every time)

Next: Excel is launched into space and after telling the other fighters that they will have to invade the base she flies off to the side and suddenly gets this very serious look on her face. Then all of a suddon we see this kind of "lightning" flash of light. This is a parody of Amuro when he gets his special intuition from being a Newtype. This intuition really comes in handy when Amuro is fighting his rival Char Aznable. Which brings us to the next parody. Suddenly Excel is faced with a giant puchu version of the very last mecha that Char rides in the original Gundam. Char is one of the most popular characters in Gundam and his most recognizable feature was his mask/helmet that he insisted on wearing everywhere. So we then find ourselves looking at a puchu version of Char who says:

認めたくないものだな、若さゆえの過ちというものを

mitometakunai monodana, wakasa yue no ayamachi to iu mono wo

something like "we don't want to admit mistakes due to our youth" (once again awkward in English, wonderful in Japanese (also awkward because I am just rushing out the translation on the fly here))

This is also a one of THE Gundam references and it is one of Char's first and most memorable lines. Now Excel responds with a line that must once again have seemed to those who don't know Gundam like the laws of causality had disappeared. She says:

なぜあの人を巻き込んだんですかって誰だよ！

naze anohito wo makikondandesuka tte dare da yo!

(maybe "Why did you involve her/that person in this. ... Who are you?)

This is a line from Amuro turned into a little joke. Now the who are you is simply a joke from the fact that Excel really shouldn't know who she is talking to but the rest is what Amuro said to Char in the battle after Amuro

(*******SPOILER ALERT*********)

killed fellow newtype (and Char's girlfriend) Lalah Sune accidentally when they were fighting. Although Lalah was fighting for Zeon and not the Federation Amuro was deeply wounded by her death and held Char responsible for allowing her on to the battlefield.

Now once again this line may have been chosen because of the use of "ano hito".

OK all that being said there are still even MORE Gundam references in the episode but I don't have the time right now to get to the rest.

--Schopenhauer7

While I don't doubt that there are Gundam references, I've been told by Japanese natives that the "Star Wars" episode draws heavily from Space Battleship Yamato, which is one of the oldest and most influential sci-fi animes of all time. Someone did mention Leiji Matsumoto but they neglected to say that he created Yamato. Jared Grainger 17:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Not a major issue, but Matsumoto Leiji did not create the Yamato: the project was already well underway before he joined it. He was unquestionably a heavy influence on what eventually came out, but it was not entirely his original creation. Elric of Grans 21:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah, don't take my post as trying to say that that episode was mainly a Gundam parody, it is most definitely Leiji Matsumoto's work which is being parodied with Gundam and others on the side. That much is made very apparent when Excel takes out her copy of "宇宙戦艦なんとか" --Schopenhauer7

Episode 5 (Interesting Giant Tower) question

An older revision said that episode 5 had references to Resident Evil in it; I've never played RE and the plot summary on its Wikipedia page doesn't ring any bells, so I took that part out. Can someone with more experience with the game help me out here? -lee 16:35, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'd say it's the fact that an unusual substance (in this case, the drinks Hyatt was handing out) is turning people into zombies, but this is tenuous at best, which is probably why it's only in an older revision. Yar Kramer

Well, actually, the video culutural notes say that the RE reference is in that the clues are written on the bathroom stall walls, similar to how, in RE (I'm only assuming, I haven't played the games), clues are written in bizarre, out-of-the-ordinary places. I believe that's what the original author of that excerpt had in mind. Kakashi-sensei 5 July 2005 23:28 (UTC)

Ilpalazzo vs. Il Palazzo

Now I'm not sure, but last time I checked Il Palazzo was spelled as Ilpalazzo in the DVD subtitles. Am I just imagining things, or should we be correcting something?

I dunno... compared to Hyatt, he's merely Slightly-Under-The-Weather Palazzo. ;) --Yar Kramer 05:24, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've always seen it as "Ilpalazzo." I've never seen it spelled as two different words. You might as well write that his name is spelled "Iruparatso" as long as you're on the train of thought that it's two words. Kakashi-sensei 5 July 2005 23:29 (UTC)

Alright, I've looked into the matter and have come to this conclusion: His name is Il Palazzo in the manga (since it's meant to be the name of a hotel), but is Ilpalazzo in the anime (since the hotel pun is absent from the animated form). I'm sure this conclusion is completely wrong, but it will have to suffice to explain the difference in spelling. Kakashi-sensei 5 July 2005 23:40 (UTC)

Removing Shioji

12.76.171.15, why are you removing Gojou Shioji from the list of characters? I think he's significant enough to warrant mention. Certainly a more significant character than Cosette, whom I note you did not remove. At least put comments on your edits as to why. --Yar Kramer 02:50, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

They removed it from the other characters list as it was already included in more detail further up. I have removed it again but included a comment this time. Garglebutt / (talk) 05:48, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Upset Audience

I think that the phrase "This was the first episode that actually upset audiences." at the end of the description of episode 22 is a little odd, is there some kind of refrence to a protest or pulling from air in japan or some other kind of outrage to back this up? Certainally there may be issues of controvertial content or parody to the point of plaugarism, but this could easily be said of many other episodes before this point. I'm just getting the feeling really that these "audiences" may just refer to the poster themselves, ie. non neutral point of view, but I didn't want to delete it incase it was something I wasn't aware of. - Mancubus

... Y'know, now that you mention it, I'm wondering that, too. It certainly doesn't say how or why they were upset. --Yar Kramer 15:16, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and delete it since there's no apparent source, nothing I've found on google, and it just seems out of place. Jongpil Yun 07:03, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Significant Revision Desired

Hello, all! I'd like to significantly revise this article for style (and also some for structure). I've already prepared a revised Overview, but I wanted to see if there were any objections. I can post an example of what I'd like to see, if it's desired. --Monocrat 22:13, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

... Yeah, that sounds like a good idea, actually. Why doncha go ahead and post it. --Yar Kramer 04:17, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Here's the meat of what I propose for the Overview:

Both the manga and the anime follow the trials and tribulations of the secret, ideological organization ACROSS in its quest to conquer the world and rid it of corruption, starting with just one city, "F City, F Prefecture" in the anime; this is short for Fukuoka City, Fukuoka Prefecture. ACROSS is lead by the Lord Ilpalazzo, who justifies his one-city-at-a-time strategy by saying that "[c]onquering one city is a reasonable plan that allows some leeway for setbacks." However, ACROSS consists merely initially of only the Lord Ilpalazzo himself and Excel ("First name 'Excel,' last name 'Excel'"), a quick-but-dim witted blonde, whose main virtues are loyalty, energy and determination. Excel is joined in the second episode by Hyatt, who is much smarter than her sempai, but who has an unfortunate tendency of suddenly dying and reviving for no medically known reason. Excel and Hyatt are often accompanied on missions by their pet and emergency food supply, Menchi (known in the manga as Mince). In the manga, ACROSS is further augmented by Elgâla, whose lack of internal monologue is often a source of tension with her coworkers. Although there is very little continuity between episodes for the first and second thirds of the series - each episode being an "experiment" in parodying various genres of anime and other media - elements from the experiements build slowly into the main story, which culminates over episodes 22 through 25 in the battle for F City.

All of this would go under a sub-heading "Plot," and the rest of Overview would go under "Nature of Excel Saga." Additionally, there's some material in the Overview referring to Rikdo-sensei that mostly repeats what's in his character description below, material which could be deleted or removed. And since the consensus seems to be that "Ilpalazzo" is prefered in referring to the anime, I'd like to change instances of "Il Palazzo" and make a note of the discrepancy. I'm so enamored of Excel Saga that I'd love to see its page be of a quality similar to Eva or Blackadder.--Monocrat 14:50, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Hakusa - Wiki addict: 00:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC) I think a revision that needs to take place is, many of the characters aren't in the manga, or are substantialy different in either version, but are listed as practicly the same person. The best example is the Dr. who is described in this article as a horrible docter, but not distinguished from the anime, inwhich he never exercised malpractice.

I was thinking of revising some of the article, but wanted to run my suggestions here first.

For charactors only in one version, to have (manga only) or (anime only) next to their name to help differenciate.
1. For charaters in both, but with substancialy different characteristics, to have two seperate paragraphs.
  1. Either get rid of the episode guide, or add a Manga guide.
    1. Anything else that needs further fixing.

In what I'm drafting, I'm trying to make the distinction between the manga and anime characters more distinct. And the Episode Guide could easily go in a separate article.

Also, I removed the "anime-only" note, since the creation of the episode guide obviated it. (Forgot to sign comment above.) --Monocrat 02:24, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Apologies, for some reason the computer wasn't logged-in when I did the re-write this afternoon (26 September 2005). --Monocrat 00:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Menchi

Do we ever learn Menchi's breed? The article states that she's a Chow Chow, but I don't remember the anime ever mentioning that. Also, doesn't the manga imply that she's actually not a dog, but a highly intelligent and highly valuable mammal akin to dogs? (Understanding that Excel often calls her a dog or mutt or some such - and I remember the Dog -> Animal -> Food text in Ep. 1 - but I never took Excel-kun to be much of a zoologist.)--Monocrat 15:19, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah ... my dad and his girlfriend have both said that Menchi's pretty fricking small for a chow-chow. --Yar Kramer 15:28, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Not only is he much too small; he doesn't look anything like a chow-chow. Unless this is explicitly stated somewhere, methinks it should be dropped. 82.166.54.68 23:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I seem to recall now that in episode 18's preview for Menchi's second adventure (episode 19), Excel's subtitles say "I don't speak pomeranian!" I don't know what that's worth, but there it is.

--Monocrat 18:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I am not entirely sure if I am helping things out much here either but if indeed that was the subtitle for the preview in ep 18 I believe that this was a contribution by ADV themselves. All Excel says in Japanese at the end after Menchi barks a little is "犬語わかんない" (inugo wakannai) or "I don't speak dog"--Schopenhauer7

I noticed that about a week ago. I've cut most of Menchi from this article, anyway, but I'll keep this in mind at Characters of Excel Saga. And even ADV's subtitle is better than wild speculation! :)--Monocrat 14:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Episode Guide

Is there any objection to moving the episode guide to its own article? As it is, it takes up quite a bit of space on the main entry. --Monocrat 17:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I just moved the episode guide to this page.

Minor Characters Page

In addition to kicking the episode guide to its own page, I'd like to consign some of the minor characters to a page dedicated to them: consider that if Cossette Sara and Tetsuko are included on the main Excel Saga entry, then certainly Red Beard, Zed, Antonio, and Key should be as well. These characters do not need to be on the main page, but they deserve mention. Those last two could conceivably go on the main page, since Antonio is based on one of Rikudo-sensei's assistants, and Key represents a major plot development. In order to eliminate confusion, I'd like to propose the following rules for characters' inclusion on the main Excel Saga page:

They must represent major plot or sub-plot elements or developments, and
They must have appeared in at least three episodes.

The first eliminates characters like Dr. Iwata and Pad, while the second eliminates one-off characters like Key, the Puchuu overlord, and Nabeshin's pals. Essentially, this is a way to keep the main page reserved for the prinicpals of the ACROSS-Daitenzin and Nabeshin-Ano Hito-Pedro stories.

Yes, there is an obvious bias towards the anime in the second rule, but the first criterion I think rises in importance - Dr. Iwata and Nurse Fukuya appear more often in the manga, but they're still relatively unimportant. It's a little subjective, but better than nothing. --Monocrat 15:36, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Is Excel Saga bizarre enough to...

...be included in the category Category:Absurdist_fiction? If so, could you please add? Certain elements of Excel Saga remind me of FLCL by the way, especially the parodies of Lupin III in both series. --Geopgeop 08:03, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd say if Terry Pratchett makes the list (his works are mostly parodies of other fantasy books), then Excel Saga probably qualifies. However, Excel Saga is pretty non-notable in that the number of people who have seen Excel Saga compared to the number of people who've read Pratchett or Douglas Adams, or even seen FLCL, is pretty small. Jongpil Yun 07:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Really? Okay, in the English-speaking world, I can understand Pratchett and Adams, but, uh, where are the numbers comparing Excel Saga and FLCL? --Yar Kramer 17:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Dr Iwata in Excel Saga Anime

"He is a more important character in the manga than the anime."

Which episode is Dr Iwata actually in Excel Saga? Genjix

I need to rewatch it for the episode number, but when Excel and Hyatt are working on Christmass, and Hyatt dies and it taken to hospital, the doctor who declares her dead is Dr Iwata. He makes another appearance or two later on, but that is all. He does appear more often in the manga.Elric of Grans 01:23, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

F県F市 - "F City, F Prefecture"

This may seem like a minor gripe but the Wikipedia entry states:

"F City, F Prefecture" in the anime; this is short for Fukuoka, Fukuoka.

While F City F Prefecture is most definitely Fukuoka City, Fukuoka Prefecture I think it is slightly misleading to say that it is "short" for this. This is more like a kind of nudge nudge wink wink Rikudo Koshi is doing with his readers and not some sort of abbreviation for Fukuoka.

--Schopenhauer7

Manga/Anime Separation?

As I continue to read the manga as it is released in the US, it seems that the plots of the anime and manga are becoming further and further separated, I am wondering how people would feel about having separate plot sections or maybe a full separation into Excel Saga (Anime) and Excel Saga (Manga); we could use the character separations previously suggested if so. I am not skilled enough to do so myself, and at any rate I hope there is some consensus first. In the meantime, I will add info from the manga where applicable.

--Idleeccentric

I don't think a full separation is really needed, at least not at the moment. However, I think your concern is valid. It could, methinks, be mostly addressed by moving the Characters section to its own page (as I note below). But the Plot section would require some work to try not just to disentangle the two, but to speak more about the manga. A formal separation in the Plot section might be useful, but I fear they would be too small. --Monocrat 20:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Great Will

Since in the anime it is a plot point does anyone know who voices pederos wife and IZ chan in the japanese and english versions? Ive searched up and down but cant find it.--82.42.191.189 13:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the voice of the Daiuchuu no Ooinaru Ishi (大宇宙の大いなる意思) was Yuko Mizutani (水谷優子) who btw was also the voice of Mihoshi in Tenchi Muyo. --Schopenhauer7

Further Proposed Changes

My ultimate objective is to make Excel worthy of being a featured article, but it's not quite there yet. To that end, I propose the following:

That the "Characters" section be moved to its own page, leaving brief synopses for Excel, Hyatt, Elgala, Ilpalazzo, Menchi, Kabapu, and Nabeshin;
That the "Overview" section be reogranized and moved into the article's lead;
That the TV series infobox be replaed by an animanga infobox, and
That the prose be cleaned up a bit.

These are fairly major changes, and the article has been stable for a while, so I think seeking consensus is the way to go.--Monocrat 20:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

No. 2 done. No. 4 partly done. Understanding that it goes against Wikipedia preferences, I deleted many of the shows that the introduction previously mentioned as being lampooned in the anime. There were just too many, and not all of great importance to the plot. --Monocrat 17:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Pedro's surname

Where do we learn that Pedro's family name is "Dominigo"? The Japanese Wikipedia for Excel Saga simply lists him as ペドロ.

I have found he's mentioned by surname in his review episode.--Monocrat 05:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

GA

Excel Saga is now a Good Article, congratulations. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 22:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes congrats. Looks much better than the other day too I might add.--SeizureDog 23:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

A quack editorial experiment?

I've attempted to make the article more consistent and logical by merging the plot and character sections, consolidating and deleting overlap whenever possible. Major plot developments have been moved to the end of the new section under "Storylines." I don't know if this will work, but I figured it's worth a shot. One can always revert!

Minor notes

which aired on TV Tokyo at 1:45 a.m.: Needs a time zone.
Replace use of hyphens, "-", with true dashes,"—", where appropriate.

I told you they were minor. Well, it's going through the FA process so I'm allowed to be anal ;) --SeizureDog 03:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Minor changes are always welcome. The ACROSS–Daitenzin instance was the only one I thought really warranted a dash, but let me know if you have other thoughts. I changed hyphens in the External Links to colons, just to cut the knot of which dash to use.--Monocrat 04:26, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Citation Spot Check

Here are the results of a citation spot check on this article.

Footnote 4 (a): "The English-language reception of Excel Saga, the anime, was generally positive, likening the humor in nature and quality to the works of Tex Avery and Monty Python."
- Checks out. From site: "Featuring an engaging cast of oddball characters in an anything-goes action/adventure/comedy/sci-fi/romance/tragedy/horror tale, Excel Saga will be treasured by anime fans who also appreciate Monty Python, National Lampoon, and Tex Avery. Much like their works, Excel Saga is the sort of thing you will be showing to your friends repeatedly at get-togethers for years to come."
Footnote 21: "The first fourteen volumes of the manga have been translated into English and published in North America by VIZ Media, who have announced a December 2006 release for the translation of the fifteenth volume."

Checks out. From site: "Release date: 2006-12-12"

Footnote 24: "A contrary opinion is expressed by Pearce from DVD Verdict, who says the series is "occasionally clever and funny," but that "much of it is gratingly obnoxious.""
- Checks out. Both quotations appear on site.
Footnote 5 (e): "Regarding the English vocal track, reviewers note that Calvello and Wolcott were each able to capture Mitsuishi's Excel."
- Checks out. "From site: Speaking of the voices, this volume marks Larissa Wolcott's debut as the English dubbed voice of Excel. Jessica Calvello, Excel's original American voice, threw herself so wholeheartedly into recreating Mitsuishi's screechy chatter that she promptly damaged her vocal chords and had to retire mid-production. Wolcott is as good a replacement as can be, but somehow manages to makes the character even more grating than she already was. There's something of Project A-ko's C-ko in this new Excel. Still, the voice is supposed to be annoying, and Wolcott and the other new cast members are worthy additions to an already stellar ensemble."

My major concern with this is the heavy reliance on citing episodes of the show. It appears that this has been fairly heavily documented and reviewed; could secondary sources be found for the statements cited to episodes? --Robth^Talk 15:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, most of the content attributed to the show itself (i.e. the plot) needn't be cited in the first place, at least not with footnotes. -- grm_wnr Esc 15:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

It's been several days since any material actually cited or even quoted the primary sources. All references to them were directed to the commentary/notes provided by ADV and VIZ. I had a note to this effect at the beginning of the references section, but people seem not to have seen it. I have clarified this matter by making the attributions in the citations themselves. And how is "December 2006" misleading? The full date is fairly unimportant in this article, but is given in List of Excel Saga media.--Monocrat 17:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Ahh, my fault about the December thing; when I was writing this up I originally had a comment about how I expected to find a note explaining the translation of the other fifteen there; then I thought better of it and realized that there wasn't any way to make it clearer what the footnote was referring to without altering the text, so I pulled the comment, but left that bit. And I did indeed miss the disclaimer at the top of the notes; thanks for clarifying that. --Robth^Talk 18:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Layout suggestions.

I have a couple of layout suggestions which I haven't made myself as I think they may be unimportant in getting the article to FA status. The Other characters and Going too far sections wrap at higher resolutions against the pictures. Perhaps <br style="clear: left;"/> could be used. Also should the Excel Saga template be in the external links section? They are internal links and could be moved higher in the article, perhaps just before external links. --Squilibob 03:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your concern about wrapping, and I thought nav-templates went at the bottom of the article. But please make any changes you think would improve the article. :) --Monocrat 04:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Featured article!

Well done on the featured article folks! Has anyone thought of nominating it for the front page here? - Phorque 17:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! It's something I hope to do. Right now, work is sucking up more time than it has lately.--Monocrat 02:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

of all things to be featured, i did not expect this. honestly i didn't see it coming. not that im complaining though as i love excel saga Omlp 19:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

This is one of the LAST topics I had expected to see featured on the front page. Jesin 21:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Going too far

"The episode itself, in addition to much more violence, blood, and gore, features graphic sexual situations involving nudity, lesbianism, soaplands, and a love hotel—and instances of all of these involve minors."

Do they all involve minors? It's been a while since I watched it, but I can only remember lesbianism between Excel and Hyatt (which actually had a bit of voyeurism by Menchi). I'd rather not have to download the episode to be certain when I'm sure plenty people here would be. Sorry to be so nitpicky.--Capibara 23:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The short answer is "yes." A long answer is "Yes, depending on what you view as lesbianism." In light of her earlier actions towards Excel and her statement about her and Misaki dying as lovers in ep 18, I count the brief moment where Ropponmatsu 2 tries to shower with Misaki.--Monocrat 00:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hm, as far as "minors" go, I'm uncertain. Ropponmatsu 2 is less than a year old, yet she's an android, so as far as that goes, you can have Ropponmatsu (1) depicted in that instance, who looks like a mature women and is still less than a year old and be considered a minor(?); still the case goes that they're androids. I'm of mixed opinions. As for the pink-haired girl (who, for the life of my I can't remember her name), she's supposedly older than she appears due to the scene with her and Shioshi. Again, I'm of mixed opinions, but to say that the content involves minors may be a bit of an overstatement.--NWalterstorf 17:34, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, Cosette was simply "advanced" for her age. The text might overstate its case, but it's hard to strike the right balance. Edits welcome. :) --Monocrat 17:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

That's true, Cosettte was advanced for her age. Then again, what was the line she said before... eposing herself to Shioshi? Wasn't it that she's not a just a little girl? Something like that... I need to look into it. I won't edit anything for right now until I get more information. By the way, did you make most of the article of Excel Saga? Great work.--NWalterstorf 17:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

In episode 26, when she introduces herself (about 4 min 35 seconds into the anime), Cosette explicitly says that she'll be "turning nine soon".

Excel Saga alternate manga

On the subject of the Excel Saga manga, this entire article does not mention the Hentai version of Excel Saga which was created by Koshi Rikdo and his crew. Just thought it was surprising that it was not mentioned. Then again, perhaps for the best.--NWalterstorf 22:50, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's indirectly addressed in footnote four. Those would be the doujinishi he did, right? Please add a bit if not, preferably to the footnote, but I don't think it warrants too much discussion.--Monocrat 01:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Correct. It's part of the doujinshi he drew before he gained mainline popularity with what became the Excel Saga we've seen. I'm going to add a bit in the footnotes. The doujinshi was titled Excel Saga, and featured most all characters from the Excel Saga universe in... sexual situations. I won't go into detail about it for some of the younger viewers, and like you said, it doesn't warrant too much discussion. If you wish, you can feel free to look it over and edit any of the footnotes. I'll add it in a few minutes from my timestamp.--NWalterstorf 17:25, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Uncited, weasly South Park comparison

If someone desires to have the following material included in the article, please find a credible citation for it. As of now, it runs afoul of WP:WTA and WP:CITE. I have been very careful to have every claim and comparison in "Reception" (and there are plenty now) backed with a citation. As long as it uses the weasly language and lacks a citation, I will continue to remove this bit of text: "Some fans have also compared the show's bizarre, satirical and frequently over-the-top sense of humor to that of South Park."--Monocrat 05:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Il Palazzo

Yesterday i made a change to this page, i corrected the name of the character from Ilpalazzo to Il Palazzo, I thought that as i was correcting an error it was unnecessary to talk here before... now someone doesn't agree and think that the matter has to be discussed before: so I'm asking if someone thinks that the character is named Ilpalazzo, and doesn't agree to correct the name in the page...--Tin6789 14:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Tin, I understand your perspective on the transliteration, but I have to disagree. I'm aware of the original name of the hotel, and the way the name is "properly" romanized. VIZ, the English-language manga publisher even uses "Il Palazzo." But ADV uses "Ilpalazzo," so we can't simply defer to the holder of the English-language rights, as they disagrree. In these cases, anime and manga wikiproject seems to prefer that the most commonly used form be employed. The anime is far more widely known among anglophones (in the United States at least), and I personally prefer the ADV transliterations, so I've stuck with "Ilpalazzo" in the three main articles. The reason I haven't changed the article Il Palazzo is because I deferred to the previous editor who had used that transliteration. In fact I'm planning to convert all of the independent character articles to redirects to Characters of Excel Saga, so that won't be an issue.--Monocrat 16:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not a prospective on the translitteration.... Ilpalazzo means nothing, Il Palazzo means "The Palace", people at ADV probably didn't know italian, and didn't understand the meaning of the name before translitterating it... In Jap the words "Il" "Palazzo" are translitterated in ideograms, when we come back to the latin alphabet it's a nonsense changing it to Ilpalazzo... It reminds me a thing happened here in italy, someone called a shop "Top One" but wrote it "Topone" that in italian means "big rat"...--Tin6789 18:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

About the name of the hotel i have made a screenshot fou you Hotel in Fukuoka--Tin6789 18:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid that the link doesn't work. I get redirected to Altavista's main page. Anyway, ADV was aware of the hotel but chose to transliterate it differently. I'm unsure, but I think the ADV video-commentary also gives the Italian meaning. In any case, adoption of "Il Palazzo" would necessitate a complete switch to the transliteration and translations adopted by VIZ, which I think would harm the article and flout existing guidelines. Since we're dealing with a fictional work in another language, I don't think matters are as simple as right-and-wrong, especially since we're talking about a codename that still is very evocative of the hotel's name. Finally, "Ilpalazzo" is better known that "Il Palazzo," so I think we should defer to it. If you want to pursue the matter, I'd be happy to discuss this with the broader anime wikiproject.--Monocrat 19:45, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter... As you like it--Tin6789 20:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Let's lock this page due to the frequent vandalism shall we. Seppukukaishaku 05:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

No, articles on the Main Page are not semi-protected. ShadowHalo 07:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

They can be actually. See Wikipedia:Main Page featured article protection. If you disagree with, or wish to see the guideline amended, please note your opinion here. DrKiernan 11:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

They can be but, in practice, rarely are. ShadowHalo 15:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Under Development, someone vandalised it to "Huge Balls", I think a semi-protection is in order. 142.239.254.20 15:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC) It's been dramatically vandalized. Could someone revert it please? I would like to read it.

Congratulations!

Special applause for getting this on the front page. I've been waiting for this day for a LOOONG, LONG time. (It's about time Wikiproject Anime and Manga gets some recognition.) Although the picture there is kind of odd... Brutannica 19:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd specifically like to applaud the "Reception" section. Why can't we get more of these? They're very helpful. Brutannica 20:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

List of references?

One possible area that (as far as I can tell) doesn't seem to be covered anywhere is a list of references that are made in the Excel Saga anime series. What prompted this was I was just watching the first disk (ep 1-5) after having watched Space Battleship Yamato seasons one and two. And I noticed that the Puchuu's ship has a bow that is very simmilar to that of the Yamato as well as the 3rd bridge underneath. That and the ending of the dream sequence where Excel apears to be hit by the White Comet from the second season of Yamato. (The Space Battleship Yamato has a cultural influences page that points out that one of the later episodes of Excel Saga is parodying Space Battleship Yamato but doesn't mention episode two of Excel Saga). Figured I'd share the idea and see if anyone else had noticed the similarities or if it was just because I had just finished watching yamato and was thusly biased towards it.Dr Denim 18:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, episode 21 is pretty blatant in referencing Yamato in both its plot and designs, whereas the the referencing in episode 2 seems to me mostly cosmetic. Anyway, I'm not sure I favor such an approach: Beyond the technical concerns of notability and original-research (which are superable due to the ADV vid-notes in the original DVD release and the Viz "Oubliette," I'm not sure that it's worthwhile: there's a lot that we could list, but how much value is there to be had from such a list?--Monocrat 16:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

RhynCheck Clear

This article has been RhynChecked for Deadlinks and found to be clear! :D Rhynri 02:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Insanity

The International versions section violates very gravely the policy of the WP:MOS-AM in that non-English/non-Japanese versions are not allowed to be spoken of in the English Wikipedia. I want badly to destroy that information, but because it's so big, I want to consult with all of you as you can decide what to do in this case.--Twicemost (talk) 02:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The issue about non-English/non-Japanese info is being discussed here. Kazu-kun (talk) 03:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The section can hold its place. The only one who was wrong was me. --Twicemost (talk) 23:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Article Issues

This article really needs a work over to bring it inline with the MOS and with WP:LEAD. It was promoted to FA almost 2 years ago, but if it were back up for FA, it would fail miserably. Anyone willing to tackle the needed MOS and lead fixes? AnmaFinotera (talk) 07:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I missed this comment, sorry. How would the article fail? It has accreted a few things over the past two years that need some work, but the lede at least seems fine to me. Some concrete examples would be useful. :)--Monocrat (talk) 16:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

It needs to be brought in line with the anime and manga MoS, which it completely fails to meet at this point. It has excessive non-free images. It has far too many unreferenced statements, and uses several non-reliable sources - big FA no-no. I actually meant to send this to FAR at the end of April for delisting at the end of April as there was no response. If you plan to attempt to fix it, I'll hold of a little longer. I was going to attempt to at least bring it inline with the MoS, but the article is such a mess I can't easily bring it inline. It needs a lot of work. AnmaFinotera (talk) 16:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I apologize again for the lack of a response; the post completely skipped my attention. :-) The "non-reliable sources" matter was addressed in FAC—see the nomination and the relevant precedent.

I think I was careful to cite putatively contestable statements, but if there's something you'd like cited, please note it as such.
MOS violation is a pretty broad category: is it style of the prose, the structure of the article, or something else? I myself substantially rewrote the article-structure part of MOS-AM, so I don't think that's a problem. (The melding of plot and character sections is unusual, but I've always detested discrete character lists/sections, and the combination of the two allowed me to economize not just on prose but unreferenced statements.)
I can see how the images might be problematic. I personally think that the images are tied closely enough to the text that they're safe, but I could be wrong. You're welcome to remove the offenders. Be bold!

Standards change, and I accept that. Perhaps FAR would be useful.--Monocrat (talk) 17:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

The FAC criteria regarding referencing are stricter now, from what I've heard in other FARs on 06 FAs. It does not comply with the current MOS-AM at all, structurally and in several places prose wise. Its missing a lot of the basic information about the series, while having a wealth (maybe even an excess) of production info (LOL, never thought I'd say that about a series). I've also posted to the project for additional help, and my post there might say things better. AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:11, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

What should be the name of the article?

Excel Saga or Heppoko jikken animation Excel Saga? (thats how it appears in iMDB) Jim88Argentina (talk) 19:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"Excel Saga" is the recognized English trade name for both the manga and the anime, which is what should be used according to the Manual of Style. Also, "Heppoko jikken animation" (Quack Experimental Animation) is specific to the anime, so shouldn't be used as the title of an article which also deals with the manga. Omnisentry (talk) 02:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I get it--Jim88Argentina (talk) 03:01, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Images

Which image are you concerned with? There's one for characters, one to show the extreme violence in the last episode, and a manga cover. Of these the only one I think it may be out of place is the cover, because there's already a manga cover in the lead. The other ones have a clear purpose to be in the article. So I'll ask you again, which image are you concerned with?

In any case, a mass removal without a clear rationale it's nothing more than vandalism. Not all the images are there for the same reason, so you should be specific about your concerns. Saying "violates WP:NONFREE" without explaining how means nothing, and doesn't help at all. Kazu-kun (talk) 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, removing images that violates WP:NONFREE is not vandalism, its enforcing policy. I'll let the removing editor explained why he removed them. From my own point of view (and my reason for tagging), the first image is purely decorative and adds nothing to the article. The second image is a manga cover. There is already one in the infobox, so that's redundant. The final image, of the violate, actually seems fine, as it is actually discussed in the section. I'm not sure the image of Watanabe is necessary, but its free so that's another discussion. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Speaking of the manga cover, I think a scan of volume 1 would be preferable to volume 13 (the current choice seems a bit arbitrary to me). —Dino guy 1000 19:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Preferably volume 1 of the original Japanese, unless Viz made a major change to the cover image. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:05, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The manga cover is redundant, yes, but the first image is a character group image, which is perfectly fine and is not at odds with the guidelines. Although a better one could be added; one from the manga and depicting more characters. I don't know, but there's no violation there. Kazu-kun (talk) 19:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The main characters are shown in the main image, except from Illpalazzo (or however its written^^). Other characters can be shown in their respective character list.--Tintor2 (talk) 19:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I made the choice of Volume 13 over Volume 1 due to my personal aesthetics: of all the covers, I felt it's the best-drawn one with Excel and Hyatt prominently displayed. Volume 1 is okay, just kind of dull for my tastes. I hadn't seen any policy that preferred first-volume covers. If one retains the shot of the Across-characters, I'd prefer that the Daitenzin be left in to have some representation of their characters and the depiction of the sentai genre. I suppose the Volume 9 cover can be removed without loss. I'd like to see the Menchi image restored: it's drawn from the closing sequence, which, with Menchi's place in it, are, I believe, discussed in the text. The Daitenzin and Menchi images do I think aid in describing major components of the franchise and in describing its humor.--Monocrat (talk) 23:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Our MoS does give heavy preference to either volume 1 or the last volume, not just choosing the one you like best. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:38, June 9, 2008 (UTC)

Citation to the relevant MoS? I can't find it after a cursory look through WP:MOS, WP:MOS-AM, WP:IBX or the animanga infobox. But I stress that it was a cursory look. Even with a proper citation to guidelines, I somehow doubt that using vol. 13 instead of vol. 1 is worth all this fuss--after all, guidelines are not hard and fast rules. Do you have any response to my other points?--Monocrat (talk) 03:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, see Template talk:Infobox animanga#Infobox image. It was discussed, but not put in the MoS itself. As for why 1 or the last over 13, its because its a more neutral way of selecting the image. First volume is first volume. Editors picking their favorite rather than a standard image is injecting too much personal preference into the article.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 03:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

No problem. :) Thanks for the link. I can understand your stance on the cover, and, on a higher level of abstraction, I agree with it. But I read the discussion as giving preference to images that identify and fairly represent the franchise, or at least major components of it. I think vol. 13 fits the bill. Since the article has to be written with a slight tilt towards the original medium, the choice of infobox image fell to the manga. So, the specific choice of vol. 13 is consistent with major guidelines and follows the spirit of the discussion you pointed out.--Monocrat (talk) 03:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, images about certain characters can be added in their respective lists.--Tintor2 (talk) 16:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

We're not talking about just any characters here. Excel Saga is about Excel, and to a lesser extent Hyatt and (later) Elgala. The number of panels in the manga and frames in the anime with those three characters, dwarfs all other characters' combined. The cited discussion simply does not support a requirement that the chosen image be of the first volume. Farix's comments in that thread nicely dovetail with my own. Also, I plan to restore the image of Menchi if there are no objections.--Monocrat (talk) 00:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Manga/Anime

I think this article has a problem by introducing Excel Saga as a manga yet exhausting so much time talking about its anime version. These two mediums really need separate pages because, in truth, by about volume eight of the manga and onward the two have very little in common. In the manga we start to see a more serious and complex plot forming (not to mention we learn a lot more about the characters) that far outgrows the frankly absurd antics that dominated the anime from front to back. Meshing the two together on one page is misleading especially when so much more text seems to be focused on the anime than otherwise. I would work on this page myself but have no Wiki experience whatsoever, therefore all I can do is leave a comment.

Requesting a split of manga/anime Excel Saga. Over and out. 4.161.115.5 (talk) 19:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Out of all the issues with the article, talking about the anime more isn't the biggest issue. For a start, it's simply what most people will be familiar with, and theres much more information out there. A split to seperate anime and manga articles won't be happening, it's highly frowned on, and frankly unnecessary. Dandy Sephy (talk) 19:37, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I would do a little work towards that end at some point, except that the manga isn't available to me whereas the anime is (which is a complete 180 from the usual state of affairs for me =P ). 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 18:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I think the biggest improvements would be gained through MOS-AM and some clearing out of dead wood (such as dodgy sources). I may have the bulk of the manga incoming soon, but im spreading myself over too many projects as it is - I've got the rest of Love Hina i'm missing on the way, so I'll be getting back to work on that too. Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:34, 13 July 2009 (UTC)