Talk:Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show

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Proposed merge with Great American Outdoor Show

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to merge . Flapjacktastic (talk) 15:57, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is the same show, renamed and with a new sponsor. Its new content should be merged to the original article, which should then be moved to its new name, with a redirect for readers looking for its old name. Flapjacktastic (talk) 06:29, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No objections made so far, nearly two weeks on. @Mrh787: any objections to me merging the new contents from Great American Outdoor Show here, then asking an admin to move this page to the new name of the show? Thanks, Flapjacktastic (talk) 09:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That’ll work @Flapjacktastic:. Mrh787 10:29, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thanks. Flapjacktastic (talk) 15:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Flapjacktastic (talk) 15:57, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 22 February 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) B dash (talk) 13:43, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show → Great American Outdoor Show – Content from the newer article Great American Outdoor Show has now been merged to the older article here. It's about the same show, which was renamed by its new sponsor in 2014. With a redirect in place, readers looking for the show will have no trouble finding it under its new name. Flapjacktastic (talk) 16:02, 22 February 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 19:16, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - the sources do not bear out the contention that this is a renamed show. This announcement from the NRA describes the ESOS being cancelled. This seems more like a new show in the same venue and covering roughly the same sports, so the merger seems ill-advised because of this. --Netoholic @ 12:45, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Added: After reading news coverage after the initial announcement of the new show, I'm even more convinced that these topics should not be merged. Certainly, the intent of the new organizer, the venue, and the regional chamber/tourism board is to carry on a tradition, but this isn't a case of someone taking ownership over the show or simply renaming - this is two different shows and we really can't merge them into one topic. -- Netoholic @ 00:35, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: From Outdoor Show Reopens Under New Management: The NRA: "[...] the Eastern Sports and Outdoor show was eventually canceled. This year, it's back and bigger than ever. Now called the Great American Outdoor Show [...]". From NRA to produce largest outdoors show in North America "Great American Outdoor Show" in 2014: "Under a long-term agreement with the PA Farm Show Complex & Expo Center (FSC), the NRA will produce the largest outdoor show in North America, which has taken place in Harrisburg under several names and producers for 65 years." This suggests that the NRA would like people to think it's the same event. Danielklein (talk) 02:57, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This seems like a Ship of Theseus problem. If you have a show, but change the management and the name, is it still the same show? Honestly, this isn't even the first change in name/management related to this. In newspaper archives, I can find it being called "Pennsylvania Recreation and Sportsmen's Show" from 1955-1961, "Pennsylvania Sports and Outdoor Show" from 1962-1966, "Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show" from 1967-1971, "Eastern Sports, Camping, and Outdoor Show" from 1972-1973, "Eastern Sports, Boat, Camping, and Outdoor Show" from 1974-1975, "Eastern Sports, Boat, Camping, Travel, and Outdoor Show" from 1976-2003, and then officially back to "Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show" from 2004-2013 (though through some of the longer titles it was colloquially still just called "Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show"). Management has also changed over time, sometimes coinciding with a name change, sometimes not: John Altland (1955-1972), Robert Leidigh/Robert Rockwell (1973), Sherman Exposition Management (1974-1978), Reed Exhibitions (1993-2013). Coverage of the Great American Outdoor Show lately (everything after the first year, so 2015-now) almost never mentions the old show or it being a tradition since 1955. Its a new start. Overall, though, there seems to be a very distinct break in the succession starting with the Great American Outdoor Show taking over, enough that there should be two articles. -- Netoholic @ 03:07, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.