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This is just a note that Margono's nationality does not change from American to Indonesian simply because he has both citizenships. He was born in the United States, and so his nationality in the lede, according to both WP:FOOTY and WP:MOSETHNICITY, should remain "American" until he actually plays for the Indonesian national team. After that, the lede will become ambiguous. Anwegmann (talk) 01:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Anwegmann If you don't know, Indonesia do not recognize dual nationality/citizenship (I will use interchangibly because there are no difference in Indonesia), as written in the Indonesian nationality law. Indonesia only recognize limited dual citizenship for children of Indonesian parent and non-Indonesian parent. The definition of children is unmarried person under the age of 18, though usually there is a grace period of 3 years. After which they have to declare which nationality they want to hold.[1] Cyrus Margono was a dual national, he chose Indonesian citizenship, which meant he lost his US citizenship.
On the other hand, if a person undergo naturalization ('naturalization for exceptional merit' process) to play for Indonesia national team, they will lose their other citizenship to obtain Indonesian citizenship. They are not dual nationals, because their parents do not have Indonesian citizenship to confer to them. Envapid (talk) 05:06, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that, but the United States does. This has been an issue with Liberian nationality law as well, as Liberia does not allow dual-citizenship, but many Liberians maintain both American and Liberian citizenships. The act of denouncing one citizenship to accept another does not cancel out other citizenships. It only cancels the original citizenship in the eyes of the nation granting the second citizenship. So in this case, Margono is still very much an American citizen, fully eligible to hold and use an American passport. He simply can't use an American passport to get into Indonesia. Because American citizenship is jus sanguinis, it can only be lost if a citizen officially denounces if with the United States government, which there is no evidence Margono has done, or stripped by the Federal government. Anwegmann (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AnwegmannFrom this usa.gov page, Cyrus would fit the Apply for citizenship in a foreign country with the intention of giving up U.S. citizenship criteria for losing US citizenship.
I'm pretty sure there is coordination with US embassy in Indonesia, and this notification is one of the requirement for Indonesian citizenship oath that he did, to ensure he (and other participants) did not became stateless. The process have been going on for months, why should you assume he did not do the requirements with US Government.
I'm not doubting that he is an Indonesian citizen. He is, however, still an American citizen. American citizenship is not stripped that easily. One county disallowing dual citizenship does not inhibit the maintenance of American citizenship. George Weah is an excellent example of someone who has dual citizenship including a country (Liberia) that does not allow dual citizenship. In any case, all of this doesn't change Margono's nationality in the lede according to WP:FOOTY. Anwegmann (talk) 15:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From what I see from George Weah page he is listed as Liberian. George Weah is Liberian citizen only, unless you believed his political rival Joseph Boakai that claimed he was foreigner, so inelegible to be president, and I thought wikipedia should follow WP:NPOV. Envapid (talk) 03:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His French citizenship is mentioned and sourced in the George Weah article. It's a well-known fact. Yet, Liberia does not allow dual-citizenship. France, however, does, bringing up the exact situation we're in with Margono. Weah was a Liberian citizen at birth but became a French citizen later. Anwegmann (talk) 05:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He has played for KF Dukagjini 3 times. Twice in the league and once in their FA Cup. How dare you delete KF Dukagjini paragraph in Club Career section? It's just facts 118.136.103.209 (talk) 04:26, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Cyrus Margono is officially Indonesian. I know that US government might not revoke his US citizenship even though it its strictly illegal under Indonesian law to have dual citizenship. But, it is better to describe him as Indonesian player. Why? Because last year he just got his Indonesian citizenship again. It is more recent and 100% his own effort, choice and decision. The second argument is because he is more likely to represent Indonesian national team rather than American national team. Thus, it's much more accurate to describe him as Indonesian player. Anandya24 (talk) 05:06, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:FOOTY and WP:MOSETHNICITY standards, his nationality in the lede will become ambiguous once he represents a nation other than his original, and still current, citizenship. His Indonesian citizenship does not cancel or overshadow his born citizenship and nationality. This is standard practice across WP:FOOTY. Anwegmann (talk) 05:10, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Unlike other Indonesian heritage naturalized footballer, the fact is that Indonesia is also Cyrus Margono's original citizenship. Although he's born in USA, but he also had Indonesian citizenship since he was born as his father is still Indonesian citizen. However, he was late to to declare before the age of 21. But, he obtained an affidavit from the Indonesian Ministry of Law and Human Rights and Ministry of the State Secretariat to re-declare his Indonesian citizenship. So, to describe his original citizenship is solely US is so misleading. He was, he is and he will always be Indonesian. By blood, by choice, by his own decision. Not to mention, he's much more likely to represent Indonesian national team. He has more family in Indonesian rather in USA. So, the best way to describe him is Indonesian. Anandya24 (talk) 05:32, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is all clear in the article. And it’s immaterial to WP:FOOTY standards. His nationality in the lede will change when he represents Indonesia. Until then, we follow the player’s place of birth. You might not agree with that, but you need to take it to WP:FOOTY rather than here to change long-established consensus. Anwegmann (talk) 05:38, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
When you said that it will changes when he represent Indonesia, do you mean getting officially called-up by Indonesian National Team in FIFA Matchday or he must actually play the game first? What if he sits on the bench? 118.136.103.209 (talk) 15:16, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It’s just so funny the way you monopolize truth. Although Cyrus himself consider himself more as an Indonesian rather than American, as well as the fact that FIFA will let him sit on the Indonesian National Team bench because he is in fact an Indonesian, not American. But, you still insist he’s an American 🤣🤣🤣🤣 118.136.103.209 (talk) 15:50, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Now, what if he play with Indonesian National Team but not on FIFA matchday? For example a tournament like SEA Games or AFF. Would you still consider him as American? 118.136.103.209 (talk) 15:53, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
These aren't my arguments. This long-established WP:FOOTY consensus. Stop taking this so personally—and making this personal from my end. Try to see this as universally implementable. Individual circumstances don't affect the overarching consensus. It's not about what Margono specifically identifies as—even though there is no proof or evidence of that either way. It's about consistency across the WP:FOOTY realm of Wikipedia. We cannot psychologize and assume something based on perceived motive, and we cannot act on individual feelings of national pride. WP:FOOTY consensus holds that an appearance for a national team is the threshold by which the nationality of a player born elsewhere changes in his club's article and becomes ambiguous in the lede of the player's article. It's not about what you want to be the practice; it's not about Indonesian pride; and it's not about American pride. Personally, I don't care one way or another about Margono's nationality. But I do care about consistency in upholding long-established consensus across the WP:FOOTY realm of Wikipedia, and so should you. Anwegmann (talk) 16:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As for the case of playing for Indonesia in the SEA Games, for example, that would count as an appearance. It is an official regional tournament, so it counts. If he were to make an appearance in a game for Indonesia in any tournament like that, the nationality in the lede of his article would become ambiguous and read as follows: "Cyrus Margono is a professional footballer who plays as a goalkeeper for Football Superleague of Kosovo club KF Dukagjini. Born in the United States, he represents the Indonesia national team." Anwegmann (talk) 16:23, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the 