Talk:Costelloe

The myth of Hostilo as root of MacCostilo

Need to confirm, settle and remove once and for all the erroneous myth of Gilbert De Angulo having a son named Hostilo, and that name being the source of the name Costello. After 40 plus years of research of the Incredible De Angulo Clan and all their subsets , Absolutely none of the annals , legal docs, or registers mention this name at all. Earliest annals do not mention anyone but Jocelyn, his sons Gilbert De Angulo, William, Phillip, Richard, Jordan and Walter.

Jocelyns’ father was also named Gilbert, of the Angle, from Pembrokeshire, in Wales, on the south shore of Milford Sound, where the invasion of Ireland, by Strongbow, aka Gilbert de Clare, was staged from, 1169. These are the Sons of Gausslyn, ie Jocelyn, thus MacGoisdelbh. Actually this term was popularized in the Annals of the Four masters , and this was the last Annals compiled in the early 1600’s, and finished in Belgium after the closing of the Catholic Abbeys. All records available have no mention of Hostilo, ie Ormond Deeds, Sweetmans Calender of Ireland, Tower of London legal rolls from Henry 2, Lord John of Mortain future King John,s tour of Ireland 1185-88, King Johns Magna Carta rolls, King Henry 3 Rolls, Registers of St Mary’s Dublin and Dunbrody, Register of St Thomas also in Dublin, all available on line, or for purchase now. I have many of these sources.

In Fact, these De Angulo men, all fighting Knights, are witnesses of many land deeds beside John De Courcy and William Marshal, the greatest Knights and men of their Age, the De Angulo, especially Gilbert Mor MacGoisdealbh, first Norman settler in Connacht, who died KIA 1212 in Cael Uisce ( Running Water) Castle, and was listed right after John De Courcy many times, implying a very very high rank in the battle order and fighting skill of contemporary Knights. Hugh De Lacy, Walter de Lacy, Meyler Fitzhenry, Hugh Tyrell, de Nugent, de Cogan, Raymond le Gross, all famous Conquerer of Ireland. the De Angulo were the first Norman family to use the Mac Prefix for their Irish name, and were called Hibernis ipso Hibernii ie. More Irish than the Irish, adopting Gaelic names, language, dress and laws by the 1360’s.

All of these records  mention the above DeAngulo then MacGoisdealbh Men , but no Hostilo.

Hostilo first recorded appearance was when Carew was recording Irish history of his Geraldine extended family, and he introduces Hostilo I believe to separate the Nangles, Barons Navan, who were contemporaries and friends of Carew, away from the very genesis of the Irish family of MacCostelloe, to imply separate lines from their first arriving in Ireland. The MacCostelloes were always Irish speaking and Rebels, and never became Protestant, ever. This erroneous pedigree was copied in the Cottonian Annals, MacFirsbeg pedigrees, O Donavan pedigrees, and into the Burke lists of pedigrees, all since proven to be manipulated by the leading Anglo Irish Aristocracy , for various land holdings reasons , and to imply Royal relationships.

This redoing of family pedigrees , all done of course to suit the politics of the 1650’s penal laws to late 1800’s land league era, and especially the Penal laws period where anything at all done by Catholic Irish, speaking Gaelic, having irish last names , owning land, attending a mass or having a local priest, practicing your faith, etc etc, was illegal , punished by death or instant deportation to the Indies , North America, or Australia . Slaves in their own country, the only indigenous race to have suffered this fate in Europe. Think about that for a moment in our supposed white privileged world, that possibly the whitest people EVER, were slaves for 400 years, and in their own country at first, and then in the new world. When that did not destroy the Irish, the British tried to genocide the Irish with an engineered famine. Only the potato did not grow in 1842 to 1848 period, all other abundant crops grew but were shipped off the Island of Ireland. 2 million starved to death, 2 million left, never to return to their ancient ancestral land.

Where as the real pedigrees are that the lines split at Mile MacGoisdealbhaig, circa 1265, grandson of Gilbert Mor MacGoisdealbh, was also when the De Angulo or future Nangles kept that name and became Barons Navan , this line extent until 1748, with the pname changing from De Angulo to Naungle 8th Baron Barnaby, then to Nangle with 10th Baron William. Also when Nagles in Moinamany were firmly established, with an amazing history also for a continuous 800 years , in the Mallow Cork area , Nagle Mountains and the Blackwater Valley, where Edmund Spenser wrote his greatest works, and his son married a Nagle. Also Nano Nagle, famous Nun and founder of her order, a possible future Saint. This line established by Richard De Angulo son of Gilbert Mor, named after Gilberts brother Richard, who is the MacGoisdealbh killed in a skirmish along with ODonovan in 1200 , assisting De Cogan in his Munster Cork City conquest.

More to follow, books and rolls mentioned above are my source records, thank you. MacOisdealbh (talk) 17:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Its still MacOisdealbh, on a roll so thought I would drop a few references.

This is Ormond Deed #2, from the Butler family records.

“Earl Richard, son of Earl Gilbert, grants to William De Angulo, Son of Gocelyn and his heirs, Tilach and AChetdued(Tullow in Carlow) and Motdicon;also the fee of four knights extending to the water of Mescordin(Iniscordin) on the one side, of the water so that, within the appearances of the said lands, he shall have the fee of forty Knights. to be held in fee and heritage by the free service of eight Knights.

Witness: Raymond the constable, Meiler, Son of Henry, Robert de Brumingham, William Son of Henry, John de Clohalle, William Son of Maurice, AlexNder his brother, Gerald his brotherWalter de Riddlesford, Walter de Anglo, Jordan brother of William de Anglo, Gisilbert William de Megref, Adam Son of Morgan, Gisilbert who wrote it.”

This is remarkable for the timeframe is stated as before 1176, and for the size of the grant,the Knights providing fees, and the witness list. Raymond is Raymond le Gross, founder of the Grace family and a son of the famous Nesta, who is the Matriarch of the Geraldine clan, and considered the Welsh Helen of Troy.

Meiler Fitzhenry, bastard son of King Henry 2 with Nesta , De Birmingham, sire of that famous Clan, William Fitzhenry, William Fitzmaurice, sire of that clan of the Geraldine’s, Alexander Fitzmaurice, Gerald Fitzmaurice sire of the Fitzgerald clan, then three of the De Angulo brothers, and the fact that Gilbert De Clare wrote it.

8 Knights fees is important when you consider that John De Courcy conquered all of a Ulster with 7 Knights, Gilbert de Angulo one of them and De Courcys castle and military engineer. In fact , that is what the de Angulo clan were, Condotieries, or Military Engineers and seige engine and castle ie mote and Bailey designers.also called by one historian “aristocratic mercenaries.”

Ormond Deed #8 as follows:

” John Lord of Ireland and Count of Mortain, ( Future King John) grants to Res son of Philip, the donation which Robert de Riddlesford made to him,the land of Omael, (Imaal) which the Othertules ( OTooles) had held.To hold to him and his heirs by the service of a knight.

witness: Stephen Ridell, Chancellor of Ireland for Lord John, Robert de Mortain, Ralph de Hameuz, Ralph de Trublevill, Meiler Son of Henry, Gilbert De Angulo, William his brother, Gerald Son of Maurice.

Circa 1185.”

Once again the most important of the early Knights who were dividing up the country amongst themselves as they made agreements with local chieftains or in some cases defeated them in the battles from 1169 to approx 1175 to start with, and then on and on as the Cambro Norman from Wales under Strongbow, and then Lord John and his Anglo Normans who came with him in 1185, carried on the same process.

Also, keep in mind this Norman conquest started in 1066 at the Battle of Hastings when William the Conquerer of Normandy defeated the English King Harold Goodwinson, and subsequently took over England and started conquering the rest of that Island , and then they went west by sea to Ireland , almost exactly 100 years later. These Normans also conquered Sicily and the first and Second Crusades were their adventure as well.

More to follow MacOisdealbh (talk) 18:55, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

MacOisdealbh once again, in 1207 King John Pardoned Gilbert Philip and William de Angulo for transgressions 1194-1195 which were in reality honoring their fealty to King Richard the Lionheart who was on Crusade. king John then Lord John of Ireland and Mortain in France , hadtried a palace coup in Richards absence. After the 1207 release Philip, recently mentioned as “ my dear and faithful Knight,” by K John, was ordered to collect the surety from Cathal Crovderg O’Conor, King of Connacht and last high king of Ireland. Gilbert had been in service to Crovderg( Redhand) since 1194, and was busy during his banishment developing the area of Maenmagh, around modern day Athenry and Loughrea, in East Galway. This was the land granted to Gilbert for services rendered, and for Gilbert and a John De Courcy assisting Crovderg in pushing back the OBriens and their Norman allies back south of the ancient Munster Connacht border, basically south of the Shannon estuary etc, including Limerick.

in 1192 Gilbert had built Rathgorgin mote and Bailey, and then a castle, on the western frontier of Connacht and is considered the first Norman settler of Connacht, in the same scale as De Courcy was in Ulster. There are contradictory stories of Gilbert from 1192 apoearenc3 in a raid into East Galway, and his death in 1212 or 1213 in a castle he built for Crovderg on the Ulster Connacht border at Cael Uisce near Assaroe. Some annals say he was apprehended by de Courcy in 1195, others say he entered full time service for Crovderg in 1195. Subsequent records and legal documents prove the former, and also state that Philip inherited his fathers land in 1215, which would be Gilberts son Phillip, not his brother. As activ3 fighting Knights And as witnesses in 1176, Gilberts death in 1212 makes him at least 65 years old, very old for his occupation, so no mention at all of Hostilo throughout this whole period hopefully puts this myth to rest. ( see Orpen : Normans in Connacht , Register of St Thomas edited by Gilbert, Calender of the Documents of Ireland, edited by Sweetman 653: Historical and Municipal Docs of Ireland: Edited by Curtis) MacOisdealbh (talk) 16:17, 2 April 2023 (UTC)