Talk:Chetnik war crimes in World War II

No proves about Chetnik persecution of Jews

I never found a proof of Chetniks persecuting Jews. I have been investigating chetniks for a decade now and I have never seen a proof that chetniks were antisemites. They were anticommunist and that meant that they would kill anyone who was connected with communists, including Jews. But antisemitism among Chetniks is not proven. Using claims found in books that were written in 21st century is not a proof. Mr Hoare did not put proofs for his claims and he also tends to make up stories to prove his pseudoscientific theories. No individual case has been found in which chetniks persecuted Jews. I would like to see proofs. Their collaboration with Nazis included handing over prisoners, including Jews but that is not a proof of antisemitism. Article even claims correctly that Chetniks had Jews among their ranks so I am not sure how could anyone claim that Chetniks were anti-Semitic. This way this article is just a continuation of communist and nazi propaganda about chetniks. 188.120.100.74 (talk) 00:17, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Your comment makes no reference to reliable sources, except to dismiss one that is clearly reliable (Hoare). There is of course also Lowenthal and Kovac (already cited in this article), The Holocaust Encyclopaedia, and the numerous well-documented anti-Semitic references in Chetnik propaganda at various stages. You have also mentioned a classic Nazi trope, which is the connection of communists with Jews, which is not based on the facts, but was a convenient scapegoating approach taken by Hitler, the Nazis and their collaborators (such as the Chetniks). Wikipedia is completely uninterested in your research unless you are a published academic (in which case what is written in your published works is what we would be discussing here), what you need here is reliable sources. If you have identified reliable sources that state that the Chetniks were not anti-Semitic and did not hand over Jews to the Germans, or issue anti-Semitic propaganda, then we could discuss how that alternative view might be incorporated into the various articles on the Chetniks. Short of that, I don't think there is much to discuss further. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Please, do not connect me with nazis and impose nazi tropes on my ideas. That is an insult to me. It proves that you are not here to use arguments but to insult and impose wrong ideas just as you imposed antisemitism on chetniks. Probable cause is your anti serbian sentiment which prevails on english wikipedia. I stated that instances of chetniks killing jews had nothing to do with alleged antisemitism in chetniks but with anticommunist activities in which jews were also part as they were significant part of serbian population. Jews hided from holocaust in chetnik controlled territories. Jews were accepted in chetnik ranks. That sole fact proves there was no antisemitism among chetniks. There was no change in chetnik ideology regarding Jews in 1942. There are no proofs. Modern Academia is corrupted which is proven numerous times including antiserbian hysteria in english language publications about serbs. That gives me right to make my research as an individual. Mr Hoare made no proofs that chetniks were antisemites. His statement can not be taken as a proof. Mr Hoare has proved with making up facts, that his academic research is infected with his antiserbian sentiment that probably stems from his personal views about serbs or ongoing geopolitical and scientific battle between serbs and croats in which he obviously participates as he is personally connected with region. Without proofs that chetniks were antisemites and explanation why would antisemites hide jews, wikipedia articles about chetniks are just a continuation of propaganda wars. Probable purpose of antichetnik propaganda is relativisation of what nazis and communists did to Serbs as Chetnik crimes are stated as justification for antiserbian sentiment. Alleged antisemitism tries to prove nazi nature of chetniks, so imposing antisemitism on chetniks is just a bad effort to justify years of communist and Croat propaganda about chetniks. 89.216.31.148 (talk) 11:54, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah right. Read WP:NOTAFORUM. If you don’t have reliable sources for your contentions no-one is going to take you seriously here. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:04, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Still no proves of Chetnik persecution of Jews

Not a single event stated about Chetnik persecution of Jews. 50000 Jews lived in areas where Chetniks were active, but not a single act of Chetnik persecution of Jews. Just an article from communist era Yugoslavia which was heavily anti-chetnik and Israeli article which actually claims that Jews were hiding in Chetnik dominated areas, but some Chetniks did something wrong, without names, events or numbers. Which probably means that events were individual and scarce. Not a single commander under Draza Mihailovic named as perpetrator of anti-Jewish persecutions but article baldly claims that it happened. Also, the Yad Vashem article has no author and no sources, so it is most probably wishful thinking or stereotypes. Nothing changed in 1942 regarding Chetniks and Jews, just some Chetniks accepting Nedic's propaganda about communists being foreign force. Jews were already annihilated by Nazis. Also, number of Croat and Muslim victims is pulled out of a source that actually claims different numbers. Source also claims that 50000-65000 victims is actually "guestimate". It states also various different numbers that are significantly lower. I am sure that numbers picked for the article are inflated.

"After all this, in 2012 Dizdar stated that Chetnik crimes were generally suppressed (sic!) after 1945 and that most victims were not registered, so that the exact number of casualties caused during World War II by the Chetniks/ JVuO is unknown, and further claimed that up to the present over 50,000 slain Croats and Bosniaks, mostly civilians, have been documented, researched and registered. However, this figure of casualties caused by the Chetniks/JVuO of “over 50,000” is obviously a “guesstimate”, for he does not indicate the victim lists and similar publications in which such figures were registered, how many casualties are registered in individual lists and whether and how a verification and audit of these data were done."

Isn't this way of using sources wrong on Wikipedia? Thank you. 185.37.27.168 (talk) 01:00, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Read my last comment on the previous thread. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 13:28, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

I read it. No valid arguments there plus one "Yeah right" which is actually how you try to end this discussion. I have bunch of reliable sources that have no claims that Chetniks were anti-Semitic because there was no need to prove it as there was no accusations of Chetnik anti-Semitism before 21st century and anti-Serbian hysteria in English speaking countries and western world. Even sources used here, claim that Chetniks had Jews in their ranks and Jews were hiding from Nazis in Chetnik held territories. Some Jews being taken away by some Chetniks does not prove anti-Semitism as a general ideology of Chetniks. Also, article claims that Chetniks were ideologically influenced mainly by Stevan Moljevic who was half-Jew and active member of his mothers Jewish community. That sole fact shows how the theory of Chetnik anti-Semitic persecutions is weak, let alone lack of events that prove it.

Number of civilians killed in Chetnik massacres is taken from a source that actually claims that number is "Guestimate". Hiding behind a name Peacemaker and then creating conflicts with lies is hypocrisy and is condemned in both science and encyclopedic activities. Source linked to the claim does not claim the number stated in the article. Thank you. 109.245.35.170 (talk) 15:13, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

One last time. What are your sources, titles of book, author, page numbers? Thanks. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:16, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

There is no page number if something is not written. I do not have a book or page in which Chetniks are accused of persecuting Tibetans. That does not mean that someone can write that Chetniks persecuted Tibetans. Sources which are used here to prove Chetnik persecution state not a single case of Chetniks persecuting Jews. Just general claim, without facts, numbers, names and events. Mr Hoare makes up stories, one of those fabrications is this one. Yad Vashem article has no author, no source, no numbers, no names. But I will put sources here which prove that Chetniks accepted Jews in their ranks and were not interested in persecuting Jews. Also, not a single act of persecution is remembered anywhere in which Chetniks as a group, fueled by their ideology, attacked Jews. That is what word persecution suggests.

1. Article that claims that Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic persecuted Jews but has not a single case of Chetniks persecuting Jews. It actually states different groups actively persecuted Jews. It names groups that fought Chetniks as those who persecuted Jews and it names concentration camps that had more Chetniks then Jews as inmates. It has a number of 455 Jews handed over to Germans by Serbs during the 4 years of WW2 in Serbia , but names 4 different groups as those who handed Jews to Germans. It puts Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic at 4th place without stating how many of those 455 are actually handed over by Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic. First two groups named here (Ljoticevci and Nedicevci) were not Chetniks. 3rd group was a Chethik group whose leaders were executed by Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic for collaborating with Germans. It still does not state how many of Jews were handed over by that group (Chetniks of Kosta Pecanac). That group was active in south Serbia, while most of Jews lived in north of Serbia.

https://www.instituteforgenocide.ca/serbian-crimes-against-jews-and-others-in-world-war-ii/#more-2657

2. Mr Hoare wrote an article, but stated not a single act of Chetnniks of Draza Mihajlovic or any Chetniks persecuting Jews. He just repeats sentence from Yad Vashem article, without an author, without a source and without a single event in which Chetniks persecuted Jews.

https://www.instituteforgenocide.ca/the-chetniks-and-the-jews/#more-2118

3. Articles that scientifically prove Jewish existence in Chetniks ranks throughout the war.

https://www.pogledi.rs/jevreji-u-cetnicima.html#

https://standard.rs/2015/08/16/jevreji-u-cetnicima/

https://www.koreni.rs/jevreji-u-cetnickim-jedinicama-generala-dragoljuba-mihailovica/

Articles even have proofs that Jews thanked Chetniks for saving them. It should be stated on this Wikipedia article that Chetniks saved Jews and got praises for that and that Chetniks published it as they were proud of saving people in need.

4. Photos from Yad Vashem museum.

https://www.koreni.rs/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/152D6E38-703B-4363-980D-72D2160F5666.jpeg

5. Wikipedia article with multiple sources that claims that Stevan Moljevic is main Chetnik ideologist.

Mr Moljevic is half-Jew and was proud to state that. If he was proud of his Jewish mother, how was he able to have a leading role in anti-Semitic movement that persecuted Jews according to these theories?

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Stevan_Moljevi%C4%87#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMihailovi%C4%87194613-1

If more is needed to prove that anti-Semitism was not a general ideology of Chetniks and that not a single act of persecution happened by Chetniks as a group targeting individuals or groups solely for their Jewish heritage, I will find them. Also, I have proven that Jews were in Chetnik forces. Number goes up to 1000 Jews in Chetniks ranks, but I doubt that anyone has that proven.

So what was the persecution that happened?

There is whole part of the article that states that Chetniks persecuted Jews, it has even a date (1942) when the persecution started but it has not a single event, not a single name or unit that was involved.

What was the event in 1942 that marked the change?

And article lacks to emphasize Jewish presence in Chetnik movement or longer history of Chetnik movement and their total disinterest toward Jews. 109.245.35.170 (talk) 17:04, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

I see some of your scientific sources (read tabloid magazine articles) point to Yad Vashem as evidence of Jews being in the Chetniks, let see what Yad Vashem actually says on the matter. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 21:18, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Yad Vashem does not state a single event in which Chetnik persecuted the Jews. Article on Yad Vashem ignores proofs existing even in Vad Yashem that Jews were part of Chetniks. Article you linked has no author, nor source and provides no numbers or events when claiming that chetniks persecuted Jews. Surviving Jews claimed that some Jews were handed over to Germans by Chetniks and that many Jews were murdered by Chetniks. Can we have any of those events stated here in article? It does not provide place, time and perpetrators. It does not prove that Chetniks targeted those Jews solely on their origin, which is necessity to label it as anti-Semitic activity. It does not distinct various groups of Chetniks. This Wiki page clearly states that Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic persecuted Jews. Where is that claim in Yad Vashem article? Did they make distinction between Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic and other Chetniks?

Article you linked claims that there was no major battle between Chetniks and occupying forces after 1941 but there actually were multiple battles. So it seems that author does not know the history of Chetniks. He states ideas that prove his theory without handling the facts. Does that make it unreliable source?

Some of the battles after 1941 that are proven with reliable sources.

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Operation_Kopaonik

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Operation_Trio

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Battle_of_Vi%C5%A1egrad

http://sr.wiki.x.io/sr-el/%D0%9E%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%92%D0%B5%D1%9A%D0%B5_%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%83%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%86%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0_1944.

There were more.

So called tabloid magazine articles are backed with references in the article. You clearly continue to misjudge links I am sending. You actually chase me from article to article with your false claims. You previously did not read sources but claimed that you read them. No need for arguments. My intentions are not to hide something, I am just pointing out that there was no act of persecution of Jews by Chetniks. I am not here to claim that something did not happen contrary to the proofs. I would be happy to see a reliable source that describes and event in which Chetniks targeted Jews. Sources for these articles are same sources that are used to write articles about Chetniks war crimes. Only difference is that pro-chetnik articles ignore sources about war crimes and chetnik collaboration and anti-chetnik articles ignore sources about Chetnik anti-Nazi struggle, pro-allied views and cases of tolerance towards minorities

Also, this thread is also dealing with number of Chetnik massacres of Croats and Muslims. All of you ignore it. Article claims one number and links it to source that claims that that number is "guestimate" and unreliable due to lack of evidence. You failed to prove me wrong on different discussion. Can you please let someone else to try to explain me how we got those numbers. Source linked clearly is not the source for those numbers. Thank you. 109.245.35.170 (talk) 22:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

You may want to re-read the Yad Vashem piece. Your argumentation based on poor sources, based on poor readings of sources, and failing to understand the process of history, is unlikely to convince anyone to implement the changes you want in such high contentious topics. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 22:19, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Haha, you blocked me. Nice argument. 77.243.31.56 (talk) 00:32, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

@77.243.31.56 I understand you don't know how Wikipedia works, so to clarify, I don't have the power to block anyone. Have fun convincing others to make the changes you want. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 09:07, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

So I have read the Yad Vashem piece and it does not provide a single event in which Chetniks persecuted Jews. It clearly has false claims which suggests that author was not an expert. Author managed to miss multiple huge events which are mentioned in sources Also, one of my sources that proves Jewish presence in Chetnik forces is the very same Yad Vashem. My sources are not poor, my reading of sources is not poor and my high understanding of process of history is undeniable. I did not hear anyone else claiming not to be convinced. You are the only one, and you tend to lie how you read the sources and to deny very same sources that you use to make claims.

Can someone else address the issue, Mr Cdjp1 has his methods and reasoning influenced by some agenda. 77.243.31.56 (talk) 00:40, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Yad Vashem says

At the initial stage, there were some Jews among the Chetniks, but when it turned out that the Chetniks were not fighting the invaders and their collaborators, and in fact were inclined to cooperate with them, the Jews switched to the ranks of the partisans. As the Chetniks increased their cooperation with the Germans, their attitude toward the Jews in the areas under their control deteriorated, and they identified the Jews with the hated Communists. There were many instances of Chetniks murdering Jews or handing them over to the Germans.

Hoare (the blog article is actually an extract from his 2006 book) quotes quite a few anti-Semitic propaganda pieces issued by various Chetnik leaders, including DM, Todorovic, Jevdjevic, Bacovic, Mihic, Djujic, and Ivanisevic and the Bosnian Chetnik newspaper Vidovdan. These pieces were issued right through to March 1943. He footnotes the primary and secondary sources from which these documents were quoted.Tomasevich 1976 p. 92 also cites pieces of anti-Semitic Chetnik propaganda.

Zdenko Lowenthal et al (1957) state that some Jews who hid in the countryside of occupied Serbia were killed and robbed by Chetniks. Prusin p. 226 provides more details on similar (perhaps the same) events, stating that in October and November 1941 and again in March 1942, the "legal" Chetniks (these were legalised groups of DM Chetniks such as Predrag Raković's group and others - Tomasevich 1975 p. 200 - as well as the Pecanac Chetniks) captured several Jews, robbed them, and delivered them to the Crveni Krst concentration camp in Niš. This is cited by Prusin to several sources including the USHMM. Prusin states that "according to Serbian emigre sources" several Jews served with the Chetniks, and mentions impressing Jewish specialists such as doctors into service.

Voices of Yugoslav Jewry by Paul Gordiejew has testimony from Yugoslav Jews that the Chetniks killed many Jews (for example see p. 335)

There is sufficient material here, and that is without looking at the Serbian press sources mentioned above. BTW, koreni.rs isn't reliable, and it is not desirable to use modern day news outlets in Serbia - where little actual research is done by journalists and there are often serious biases - for matters that have been examined in detail and in context by academics like Hoare, Tomasevich and Prusin. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the response.

This (Chetnik war crimes in WW2) article on Wikipedia clearly states that Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic were anti-Semites from starting from 1942 and changed their view in 1942 and persecuted Jews afterwards. It ignores the fact that Chetniks had Jews in their ranks throughout the war, that hundreds of surviving Jews hided in rural areas which were controlled by Chetniks throughout the Nazi-occupation and that Stevan Moljevic (accused as the main Chetnik ideologist of ethnic cleansing) was Jewish by his mother and proud of it and Chetnik leadership and all of Bosnia's Chetniks were aware of it. Any article that discusses Chetnik views on Jews should have this mentioned. These 3 proven facts contradict sentence that Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic were anti-Semitic starting from 1942.

This article lists Jews as victims of Chetnik war crimes together with tens of thousands of Croats and Muslims (which numbers are taken from a source that claims that those numbers are "guestimate" and unproven and unreliable, which I also brought up here but which is ignored in this discussion and which is unrelated to Jews but needs to be discussed). Sources that claim Chetniks persecuted Jews state few incidents without numbers, the only number is 455 Jews handed by Serbs (not all of whom were Chetniks) and a group of Jews handed over by legalized Chetniks (So not killed by them). If we add numbers and Jews as victims of Chetnik war crimes, we should add that number of Jewish victims of Chetnik persecution is few tens, which contradicts the claim that Chetniks were generally anti-Semites as they had more Jews and partly Jewish people in their ranks. Number of victims, nature of events and sources themselves suggest that incidents were scarce, perpetuators were mostly unlinked to Draza Mihajlovic (who is accused in this article as a leader of these anti-Semitic persecutions and Crveni Krst camp was in area where Chetniks of Kosta Pecanac operated). Only proven claim that can be put in the article that minority of Chetniks persecuted Jews, while majority was disinterested or helped them hide as sources claim Jews hided in Chetnik controlled areas. Also, probable number of victims from the sources you claim prove general Chetnik anti-Semitic persecutions show that Chetniks killed more German or Bulgarian civilians then Jews. If this scarce and sporadic Chetnik persecution suggests anti-Semitism among Chetniks, then more numerous Chetnik attacks on many other groups like Germans or Bulgarians should be added. Article should mention Chetnik anti-Germanism or Anti-Bulgarianism together with listing Germans and Bulgarians as victims of Chetnik war crimes. That anti-Germanism and anti-Bulgarianism is shown in same manner as anti-Semitism in documents which you, me and your and mine sources have. Again, with those few tens as number of victims (which would prove that there was no general persecution, but numbers are always added to victims list so I insist we add it here) we would pioneer a method on Wikipedia.

So my claim is that some Chetniks (few dozens) were anti-Semitic in their literal work, that some Chetniks (few dozens among them leadership) saw communism as foreign import and attribute it to foreigners like Croats, Muslims, Germans, Bulgarians, Jews, Hungarians and ignorant Serbs...,that some Chetniks (few dozens) collaborated with Nazis in their bestial holocaust, which made them accomplice and that some Chetniks (few hundreds) were Jews, that some Chetniks were helping Jews (probably more then those who persecuted Jews as the number of Jews who survived in Serbian rural areas is few thousands and number of Jews who were persecuted by Chetniks is in tens), that some Chetniks (leader of the movement Draza Mihajlovic among others) were emphatic towards Jews and most of the Chetniks (up to 100000) did not care about Jews and did not think about them and ignored them and would walked bypass them or tolerate them in their units or communities as they actually did. Both my and your sources prove this. Comparing these numbers we see that most most of Chetniks were disinterested in Jews, contrary to the claim stated in this Wikipedia article that they were anti-Semitic. More Chetniks were tolerating Jews then persecuting them, more Chetniks were empathic toward Jews... All of these claims, attested in your and mine sources deny anyone ability to claim that Chetniks as a whole, persecuted Jews starting from 1942 and were anti-Semitic as this article claims without hesitation. But if we leave that notion of general Chetnik persecution of Jews, we need to state a number (few tens) which would ignite any researcher to question claim of general persecution considering that number of Jews in Yugoslavia was 75000 before the war at least and that many more had Jewish heritage.

100-1000 Jews in Chetniks (all of whom undeniably Jews) throughout the war

1 main ideologists undeniably half-Jew throughout the war (Stevan Moljevic)

10-100 Jews killed and handed over to Nazis (some of whom were part of Communist movement, thus not targeted on basis of their Jewish heritage. Also some Chetniks were not under Draza Mihajlovic as stated in article, and nobody knows who survived the camps and who did not but we can easily assume that they did not)

10-100 anticommunist propaganda pieces which show signs of anti-Semitism in Chetnik hate against communists, not Jews. If talking about Jews, they talked mostly about Jews in Communist movement.

10-100 pieces of Chetnik propaganda that urge Chetniks not to believe in Nazi propaganda against among others, Jews.

These numbers prove no general anti-Semitic persecution. They prove no general anti-Semitism among Chetniks. From sources, we can only claim that some Chetniks persecuted Jews, without proving that those Chetniks were under command of Draza Mihajlovic or that they were influenced by anti-Semitism or by anti-communist ativities. Only one known incident, mentioned in Prusin claims Jews as victims and Chetniks as those who handed them over to Germans or Serbian Quislings. So they were only indirectly killed by Chetniks, if they were killed at all but we can easily assume that they were killed in Crveni Krst. So those many Jews killed by Chetniks is in what range? 10-100 or 100-1000 or 1000-10000? It should be easy, we have sources, we have number of Jews before the war and number of Jews after the war. We have lists of Jews who were killed or who survived the war. I assume in 10-100 by reading the sources but please prove me wrong. You have more sources then me and Paul Benjamin Gordiejew must have put some number. How many of those 10-100 were actually killed by Chetniks and how many were arrested and handed over to Nazis? How many of those who were handed over to Nazis survived the war and thus can not be added to number of killed? How many of 10-100 were targeted in an ongoing civil war as Communists so no anti-Semitism was involved? With this sources, we clearly talk about 10-50 Jews targeted by Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic due to their Jewish heritage or communism and 10-50 targeted by Kosta Pecanac. This should be stated in the article among 65000 of Croat and Muslim victims. If there are proofs that number of Jews is 100-1000 we should add this number, but I do not see any source that claims these numbers of Jews killed by Chetniks. Also, we need clear proofs that all of them were targeted in Chetnik anti-Semitic activities.

My sources are referencing same sources that claim that Chetniks were anti-Semites. Yad Vashem article clearly missed facts and available sources, even their own, by claiming that Jews were part of Chetnik forces only during initial stages. It falsely claims that Chetniks did not have major battles with axis forces after the 1941 but they clearly did. It claims that Chetniks killed and handed over the Jews, without differencing incidents in which Chetniks were involved in anti-partisan activities or whether these Jews were part of communist groups which was in that case causation for killing or arresting and which can not be attributed to anti-Semitism. Sources do not claim that Chetniks differed nationalities when massacring Communists. Yad Vashem article states interviews with surviving Jews. Those interviews should be found somewhere written. Did Jews distinguish Chetniks and other quisling forces who wore the same uniforms and were collaborating with Chetniks but were but were not Chetniks? Even this source suggests number of victims of persecutions to be in tens.

Mr Hoare, beside making up stories to justify his anti-Serbian rhetoric and ignoring sources that prove opposite ideas (in this case he ignores Jewish Chetniks, and Chetnik documents that view positively Jews and are emphatic to their suffering) , ignores the fact that Chetnik documents he perceives as anti-Semitic propaganda is actually anti-communist propaganda and part of anti-communist activities. Not part of anti-Semitic activities which this Wiki article indicates. None of the individuals he claims had anti-Semitic rhetoric in their work were part in any of anti-Semitic persecution which contradicts that they were ideologically anti-Semites as they certainly had Jews in their areas and units. Most of the documents were internal, not public so they could not ignite wider anti-Semitism.

Regarding Voices of Yugoslav Jewry by Paul Gordiejew, I do not have access to it. How many Jews were killed by Chetniks? Can we have a number? So we can add it here in the article if it is more reliable then my 10-100 or 100-1000 ranges?

Pogledi might be pro-Chetnik, but their article about Jews in Chetniks is referenced with sources. Very same that are used by Mr Hoare, Mr Tomasevic and others. Sources which are stated in Serbian news outlets are accessible and readable. Mr Hoare ignores them which puts doubt on his reliability. He actually picks and chooses sources and ues those he likes and avoids those he does not. That is a big failure of credibility in scientific community.

Your statement about Serbian press and research indicates that you are distrusting of Serbs and that you do not look at facts but who brings those facts. These press articles have references to original documents. If you ignore Serbian journalists, you cant ignore original documents. Events we are talking about are mostly considering Serbs and Corats, Muslims and Jews. Ignoring Serbian sources is not contributing to finding the answer.

Hoare obviously did not make a considerable effort to check all of the sources, he jumped to the conclusion that Chetniks were generally anti-Semitic, much inline with his other work that diminishes Serb victims and inflates casualties killed by Serbs. He is personally involved in region. Tomasevich also ignored many original documents that were not in line with his theories. Prusin states one single incident, without claiming that Chetniks involved were under the command of Draza Mihajlovic.

So at the end, my claim is that there was no change in Chetnik politics regarding Jews in 1942, that Chetnik persecution of Jews was low-level. That number of victims is in range from 10-100 or at most 100-1000 (but not claimed by sources) and that not all of the victims of persecution were killed, rather arrested. Not all arrests were due to victims Jewish heritage and not all perpetuators were Chetniks of Draza Mihajlovic, rather some were Chetniks of Kosta Pecanac. 109.245.35.26 (talk) 16:03, 16 January 2025 (UTC)