Talk:Carpathian Sich

Illegal executions?

"prisoners were illegally executed by the Hungarians afterward" Why illegal? The Hungarians regarded them as unlawful belligerents, hence it was perfectly legal under the Hague Convention to execute them. Unless any counter-arguments are proposed, I will eventually remove the word. (talk) 22:15, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you, Creuzbourg. I will remove the word "illegally" from that sentence.--FeralOink (talk) 03:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Resistance against fascism

Cooperation with Abwehr was also anti-fascist? --Xx236 (talk) 13:09, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

An excellent question. Can anyone provide a source that could elaborate/clarify this apparent contradiction?

--Pechmerle (talk) 02:43, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

It's white washing because Ukrainian Nazis named a unit after this nazi unit and everyone is supposed to pretend they aren't nazis. 2A02:AA1:1626:AC48:F92B:855:CC7E:DC06 (talk) 19:07, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Done. IP editor provides an excellent insight.--FeralOink (talk) 12:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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Carpathian Sich a fascist organization

We cite the Encyclopedia of Rusyn history and culture's entry on the Carpathian Sich (Ivan Ivanovich Pop, editor Paul R. Magocsi, 2002, University of Toronto Press: pp. 55) four times, and unfortunately misquote its excellent description of this paramilitary unit's relationship with fascism and the Nazis.

Here's what the source says. Please note that I only quote text describing the unit's relationship with Nazi politics or political actors:

Although commanded by local pro-Ukrainian activists from Subcarpathian Rus, most Carpathian Sich members were radical Ukrainian nationalists who crossed over the mountains from neighboring Galicia embued with a desire to build a Ukrainian state. Following the example of Nazi German stormtroopers, and in opposition to the Carpatho-Ukrainian government headed by Voloshyn it was supposed to defend, the Carpathian Sich terrorized that portion of the Subcarpathian population it considered politically unreliable, in particular Russophiles and Jews... As the political crisis of March 1939 drew near, the Carpathian Sich became ever more radical and was encouraged by the Nazi German secret service, whose own goal was the final liquidation of what remained of Czechoslovakia. On the night of March 14, 1939, a certain number of Carpathian Sich officers began preparations for a long-planned coup/putsch against the Voloshyn government... Pro-Ukrainian émigré authors in the West as well as nationalist sympathizers in post-Communist Ukraine have published numerous accounts of the Carpathian Sich. Despite its controversial role in Carpatho-Ukrainian political life, they have also organized celebrations in praise of the military unit as a symbol of bravery and Ukrainian national pride in the face of fascism which was supposedly epitomized by Horthy-ruled Hungary.

(Emphasis addded)

Our article cites the Pop source but doesn't mention that the Carpathian Sich took inspiration from Nazi stormtroopers, or attacked Jews. The article doesn't mention that the Carpathian Sich was in contact with and inspired by the Nazi secret service. Instead, it says this:

The Carpathian Sich is celebrated as a symbol of bravery and resistance against fascism in Ukraine.

However, as the Encyclopedia entry shows, the Carpathian Sich was inspired by and even collaborated with the Nazis. It is viewed as a symbol of bravery and resistance against fascism not in general, but specifically by "Pro-Ukrainian émigré authors in the West as well as nationalist sympathizers in post-Communist Ukraine." Thus our text misquotes the source almost perfectly to reproduce the view of "Pro-Ukrainian émigré authors in the West as well as nationalist sympathizers in post-Communist Ukraine," and doesn't attribute the view to those political factions, as the encyclopedia does.

I'll do my best to correct this error but please let's be more careful using this sources. -Darouet (talk) 18:34, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Ping Darouet! Thank you! I provided additional details in the article, in order to be consistent with the source as cited. You were very helpful in providing the full passages here, for important context.--FeralOink (talk) 12:50, 14 January 2024 (UTC)