Talk:Blossom Park

Proposed page move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was - move to Blossom Park.

As per WP:CANSTYLE#Neighbourhoods, this article should be moved to Blossom Park, Ottawa. In accordance with the guideline, however, the move is first being raised on the talk page. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:14, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Not for this particular location, since it's more than a neighbourhood. -- Earl Andrew - talk 04:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

That's really just a matter of opinion, and your own personal thoughts on what constitutes a neighbourhood. But in any event, the naming convention is not restricted to neighbourhoods, so I am not sure what the issue is. Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:19, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Blossom Park, like Orleans, Bells Corners, etc, are different. If someone lives in those communities they're likely to put those communities as their addresses, which is covered in CANSTYLE#Neighbourhoods sort of. It certainly is recognized by StatsCan (probably a better definitive source) as a distinct community. -- Earl Andrew - talk 14:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Again, that's just personal and anecdotal opinion about why one bedroom community is perceived to be "different" than another bedroom community. I could claim the opposite (except for Orleans, which is, in fact, a recognized postal address). The guideline was drafted to avoid such determinations based on WP:OR feelings and opinions. And Statscan recognizes all type of communities (including my very urban Toronto neighbourhood) -- it doesn't speak whatsoever to community types or distinctiveness, or whether something is thought of as place, province versus place, municipality. Skeezix1000 (talk) 16:52, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly, there are no other Blossom Parks in Wikipedia (Blossom Park isn't even a redirect). A Google search indicates that the Ottawa neighbourhood is the overwhelmingly most common use of the name (of the first 50 hits, 47 related to the neighbourhood, the other three to roads and a park with that name). This article should probably be at Blossom Park.Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be opposed to moving it to Blossom Park, but Blossom Park, Ottawa is out of the question. I'm not sure what you're talking about vis-a-vis neighbourhoods being in StatsCan's database, because I know mine isn't. We could probably use official provincial maps to settle this dispute. All maps that I've checked show a dot for Blossom Park. -- Earl Andrew - talk 17:59, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

The existence of a dot on the map does not define whether a place is considered a city neighbourhood or a distinct community, and neither is being listed in the Statistics Canada census database — every named neighbourhood in existence is going to meet one or both of those criteria. The primary question is whether the place is officially recognized as a mailing address by Canada Post or not. Blossom Park isn't — while some mail might be lucky enough to get through based on the postal code, an envelope addressed to "Blossom Park, Ontario" is officially undeliverable mail. It's not up to an individual person to make their own choices about how to identify their mailing address — Canada Post decides what your mailing address is, not you. Oh, and I do hope you realize that your reliance on map dots as the final authority has occasionally led you to write articles about railway sidings that made it sound as if people actually lived there. Bearcat (talk) 16:19, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

It's not up to you to declare anything is "out of the question". My neighbourhood, Riverdale, is in the database, as are others. Maps would be even less relevant than Statscan. The question is whether or not the move conforms to the guideline. Having said that, a non-disambiguated name would be the preferred solution under the guideline, so that would seem to be the solution to this discussion. Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:49, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

How so? When every map I've checked (MapArt, Rand McNally, official government maps, etc) show it as a distinct community, I don't see where the argument is. -- Earl Andrew - talk 19:15, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Did it exist (as a village maybe) before? I can also find it on my maps, but some other neighbourhoods also appear as dots there. --Qyd (talk) 23:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Which neighbourhoods? Blossom Park was never incorporated, but I don't see why that matters, it's existed since well before the adjacent Hunt Club area did, meaning it is historically separate, and therefore not a neighbourhood. -- Earl Andrew - talk 23:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Nepean, Carleton Heights, Pineglen, Victory Hill,Parkwood Hills, Ottawa South, etc also show up on the same level. As far as I understand, Blossom Park was part of Gloucester before it was amalgamated into Ottawa. It is, however, somehow isolated from Gloucester proper (that's why I asked if it was a separate community at some point), and closer to suburban developments in Ottawa proper. --Qyd (talk) 14:39, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm just repeating myself at this point. Being shown on a map doesn't mean it is deemed somehow to be a "distinct community" -- in fact, any established neighbourhood is a distinct community. All the map shows is where Blossom Park is located. And your claim that it's "not a neighbourhood", besides being irrelevant (the guideline doesn't treat communities any differently, whether they are neighbourhoods or not) is just an OR determination that you have come up with yourself. And it doesn't matter whether it was historically separate or not, again "historically separate" being an opinion. It has no relevance. Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

My maps of Ottawa also show all kinds of communities, everything from the Glebe to Sandy Hill. Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I was referring to my map of Ontario, not Ottawa. There's a difference. If it's indicated with a dot on a provincial map, it has provincial significance, and having "Ottawa" after it would be silly. -- Earl Andrew - talk 21:56, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm looking at a map of Ontario as well, which again shows a whole whack of communities. In any event, you are attributing way too much to maps, esp. this notion that maps confer provincial significance. Skeezix1000 (talk) 11:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

What's wrong with that? Maps are a great tool, especially when more than one of them agree on it. -- Earl Andrew - talk 11:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Maps show location, not provincial significance. And different maps show different things. Skeezix1000 (talk) 12:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Are you suggesting what maps show is not significant? And, I'm referring to different maps showing the same thing. -- Earl Andrew - talk 15:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

He's suggesting that what maps show doesn't, in and of itself, define whether Blossom Park is considered a neighbourhood of Ottawa or a distinct settlement of the province. A map is obviously a valid reference for a place's location or for what highways or city roads serve it, but it isn't a valid tool for referencing what the article's title should be. Bearcat (talk) 15:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Why not? It's common knowledge provincial maps don't show neighbourhoods. -- Earl Andrew - talk 17:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

That's debatable. And, in any event, you have your own unique definition of neighbourhood, and simply because you edited this article a few days ago to remove the word "neighbourhood" does not mean that your own assessment is widely accepted. Finally, as I have mentioned numerous times above, it doesn't matter whether it is a neighbourhood or not - the guideline is not limited to neighbourhoods. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Why wouldn't it be? -- Earl Andrew - talk 18:00, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

This discussion is going in circles. Since you appear to have raised the same concerns with respect to a number of other articles, there is now a general discussion at WP:CANTALK#Requested moves - Ottawa neighbourhoods. Skeezix1000 (talk) 11:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.