Talk:Bhutan–Pakistan relations

Bhutan Low‑importance

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Pakistan Low‑importance

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International relations Low‑importance

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This article was nominated for deletion on 6 August 2013. The result of the discussion was keep (nomination withdrawn).

Bhutan early recognition of East Pakistan->Bangladesh

There is a disagreement about whether a sentence should be included about Bhutan's early recognition of Bangladesh as it was breaking away from being a State of Pakistan. I still think this is relevant to this article because at the time Pakistan had not surrendered the territory, and the Simla Agreement was not yet in place. Any comments? --99of9 (talk) 00:40, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, why doesn't every other Pakistan foreign relations article cover the recognition of Bangladesh? Much of the world recognized Bangladeshi independence by early 1972, long before the Simla Agreement in '73. This sentence is not only irrelevant (for example, Morocco being the first recognizer of American independence is not covered in UK-Morocco relations), but it is also factually incorrect. Bhutan was in fact the first country to recognize Bangladesh, followed by India.--Bazaan (talk) 02:15, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Because a country which is (first or) second is often going out on a diplomatic limb, and this is what makes it specially notable. Do you have a source for your "first country to recognize"? This source reads: India was the first nation to recognize Bangladesh, followed by one of its junior partners in the Himalayas, Bhutan. But obviously it would be even more important if you are right. Your UK example is interesting - it doesn't seem quite as relevant because Morocco was geopolitically quite separate from both the UK and the USA, so it really was just a recognition (but I don't know the history of why Morocco recognized so fast, so perhaps it *is* relevant). In this case they are almost neighbours (both ways), and it was certain to be a strong political signal - from Bhutan to: Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, ...? Thus I still think it should be included. Please stop reverting. I think it is time to call for third party opinions, so I will notify the IR wikiproject. --99of9 (talk) 10:22, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why on earth are Bhutan's relations with Bangladesh geopolitically significant to Pakistan? Bangladesh and Bhutan are in fact part of a geopolitical complex vis-a-vis India, China, Nepal and Burma. Pakistan doesn't fit here at all. And regarding the matter of recognition, as opposed to your source from Oklahoma, here are references from the President, Prime Minister and a former diplomat of Bangladesh.[1] [2], [3]--Bazaan (talk) 12:21, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When a country goes out on a limb to support an independence movement, it is often because they are opposed to the country they are gaining their independence from. So it suggests negative relations with Pakistan, which is consistent with the close relations with India etc. Thanks for your sources. One says Bhutan was the first country to recognise Bangladesh on 7th December, 1971 after India’s recognition on 6th December 1971. (my emphasis), so that one says Bhutan was second. The other two quote individuals who speak of it being first, so evidently there's some confusion or dispute, but the articles do not actually claim it's true - just what the person said. The reason I trust the other one more is that it was from the time, so not clouded by memory, and also isn't from either Bhutan or India, so doesn't have any possible conflict of interests regarding how it goes down in history. I think we should look for more sources to see what the reliable balance is. --99of9 (talk) 12:41, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be included if appropriately sourced. I am amazed by the suggestion that a nearby country's early recognition of the biggest change in the history of Pakistan is irrelevant to an article about the relationship between those two countries. bobrayner (talk) 13:59, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I also have a another issue with your "first recognizer" sources. Both are dated after Wikipedia made the claim, so it is possible that these diplomats actually got incorrect information *from* Wikipedia! --99of9 (talk) 14:13, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

bobrayner, this sentence was initially worded as if Bangladesh is somehow still linked as East Pakistan. That would be obviously very confusing to a Bangladeshi. I have since reworded the sentence. Of course, Bhutan being the first recognizer of East Pakistan's secession is worth noting in Pakistan-Bhutan relations. --Bazaan (talk) 15:54, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I recognise that major changes to countries can be very controversial on-wiki, and leads to a lot of contention on talkpages and a lot of reverts. We should try to improve our content rather than avoiding the problem! :-) bobrayner (talk) 17:01, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As for 99of9, don't kid yourself. Can't you do a simple google search? The issue of who recognized Bangladesh first is extensively covered in Bangladeshi media and academia.--Bazaan (talk) 15:54, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have done a brief search, and the most reliable articles I found (dating from before Wikipedia got involved) say second. If you have good reliable sources for first, please add them and state that there is controversy. We can't have a source that says second and simply state the opposite. --99of9 (talk) 09:19, 17 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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