Talk:Beyoncé

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Logs and discussions:

Move logs: Beyoncé Knowles
Beyoncé

Discussions:

Beyoncé Knowles → Beyoncé, No consensus, 21 September 2007, discussion
Beyoncé Knowles → Beyoncé, No consensus, 20 March 2010, discussion
Beyoncé Knowles → Beyoncé, No consensus, 11 July 2010, discussion
Beyoncé Knowles → Beyoncé, No consensus, 7 August 2011, discussion
Beyoncé Knowles → Beyoncé, Not moved, 23 February 2012, discussion
Beyoncé Knowles → Beyoncé, Not moved, 3 February 2013, discussion
Beyoncé Knowles → Beyoncé, Not moved (speedily closed), 20 March 2013, discussion
Beyoncé Knowles → Beyoncé, Moved, 16 January 2014, discussion

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Taylor Alexis Heady (February 1, 2023). "TikTok User Claims He Uploads the Worst Photos Ever Taken of Celebrities to Their Wikipedias". Popcrush. Retrieved February 2, 2023. Some people even made requests, such as asking for specific images for Beyoncé's Wiki page.

Beyoncé's three-act project was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 19 March 2024 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Beyoncé. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

"Greatest album of all time"

Many artists with entries in these listicles naming the greatest albums of all time usually do not have it mentioned in the lead. I personally feel that the text regarding critics naming her albums as some of the best would fit more on Beyoncé albums discography, as that page is specifically catered to albums.

Generally, the intro paragraph already implies that Beyonce is very acclaimed for her work, and her albums acclaim is already mentioned in the 3rd paragraph. I feel that "critics calling her work the best of all time" is a redundant sentence that may be better off being moved to an Impact or Achievements section. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 13:43, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi sorry I missed this! The sources for that sentence state that her music videos and songs are also listed amongst the greatest of all time, so it is not just relevant to albums, as I previously stated in my edit summary. And the fact that "many" articles don't have a similar sentence is not relevant to the notability here (WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS).

Additionally, your claim that "Rolling Stone named her as the greatest entertainer of the past decade" is slightly misleading. The source says: "For at least the past decade, Beyoncé Giselle Knowles-Carter has been the world’s greatest living entertainer." That means currently, as with every year over the past decade, she is the greatest living entertainer. I had added the year of the article (2024) to clarify this.

Also, if Billboard achievements of Beyonce as part of group projects cannot be mentioned for her because Billboard doesn't combine solo and group achievement, then I don't believe we need to qualify other Billboard achievements as "solo".

For your edits not mentioned in the edit summary: the cited sources use "monocultural events" not just for Beyonce and Lemonade, so that edit is misleading. I would also remove "womanism" as it is a form of feminism and we don't need to be so specific/duplicative in the lead :) Bgkc4444 (talk) 17:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PHShanghai: forgot to @ you :) Bgkc4444 (talk) 09:43, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PHShanghai: I also just had a quick look at the contemporary artists who have multiple works that are also widely acclaimed (Kendrick Lamar and Kanye West) and both articles have these facts in the lead. Bgkc4444 (talk) 16:42, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just read the leads of both of those articles and they are far more specific and less vague than Beyonce's when it comes to that album facts.

Three of his works were included in Rolling Stone's greatest albums of all time
West's first six solo albums were included on Rolling Stone's greatest albums of all time

While Bey's sentence is more vague "her works have been ranked amongst some of the best albums". I think the prose should be more specific if you want to use "greatest albums of all time" specifically.

I would also suggest, now that the Billboard source is out, to replace the "greatest entertainer of the past decade" with the "greatest pop star of the 21st century", but keep the "greatest vocalist" prose. "Greatest pop star of the 21st century" is less vague and more blunt than "greatest living entertainer for at least the past decade."

Lastly, I do think that womanism is a very core part of Lemonade's themes; yes it is a form of feminism but Lemonade as a work tackles black womanhood and black female struggle in the context of slavery and racism in the US. It is not just general feminism, it is the topic of black female feminism. Bey cites Malcolm X in the Lemonade visuals; "no one is more disrespected in America than a black woman." @Bgkc4444: PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 04:49, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PHShanghai: Thanks - do you think it’s better to quote one source? I feel like if many publications say the same thing, that is what should be noted in the lead, rather than picking out one publication.

Regarding womanism, I agree it’s a core theme of the album, but I don’t think we need to be so specific in the lead of the Beyoncé article, especially when we’ve mentioned feminism and racial inequality, and especially if we’re grouping Beyoncé and Lemonade in this sentence. Bgkc4444 (talk) 22:47, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead look like a fanpage

The lead should stick to facts that known worldwide not regarded by magazines even if the sources are legit. This should be an ad page with too much peacooking. 2402:800:6105:5D0D:646C:39B4:C98C:FF12 (talk) 22:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"... she has transformed the sound of popular music with her vocal ability, live performances and artistic innovations." This article is a muster of peacocks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.134.6.233 (talk) 20:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most RIAA certified female in history

Perhaps we can include this in the lede, maybe in the last paragraph?

https://x.com/ColumbiaRecords/status/1869084747663823167

Beyonce Has the Most RIAA Certified Titles of Any Female Artist

Thanks

Koppite1 (talk) 10:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beyoncé has certainly become the female artist with the most RIAA-certified titles. However, Billboard incorrectly reported that she had 103 titles certified by the RIAA. According to the RIAA's official data, Beyoncé actually has 92 titles certified at a minimum of Gold. This discrepancy likely originated from a post by her record label, Columbia TheWikiholic (talk) 15:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please fix when she started her career in 1997. 148.76.130.29 (talk) 18:10, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 18:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Beyoncé (given name)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Beyoncé (given name) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 19 § Beyoncé (given name) until a consensus is reached. User:Someone-123-321 (I contribute, Talk page so SineBot will shut up) 07:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead should be changed

As good as Beyoncé is, the lead should be changed to sound less glowing and more in line with other contemporary figures. Taylor Swift’s lead is ideal for a benchmark 51.9.221.65 (talk) 14:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

copy/edit leads

I toned down the lead sentence to be less puffy and more objective: she is an influential cultural figure who's influenced pop music through her work, etc.
What is exactly the source for Cowboy Carter being an epic? As I understand it, pretty much all of her albums post-2013 have been conceptual music with overarching narratives. For example, Lemonade was a concept album with all tracks connecting together. The specific usage of the word "epic" is confusing to me as that can describe many of her old albums..

PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 08:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We really need to WP:STICKTOSOURCE - if several reliable sources describe her as "one of the most", it is not our jobs as editors to erase that.

Many publications describe Cowboy Carter as an epic, specifically because of its Americana and Western aspects. See here: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

Also: the change to "influenced" is too repetitive with "influential", and why was the information that makes the "all 8 studio albums debuting at #1" point notable (that she is the only female artist to do so) erased? Bgkc4444 (talk) 12:53, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So? all of other singers who have gotten much more praise than Beyonce don't have these over-hyping lead sentences. Lead should stick to hardcore facts NOT REGARDED BY SOME WELL-KNOWN MAGAZINES. You turned this page into a Beyonce fanpage instead of Wikipedia 171.237.208.170 (talk) 11:15, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This in particular: "she has transformed the sound of popular music with her vocal ability, live performances and artistic innovations" seems like a bit much. I'm sure there's a better way to convey a similar sentiment without being over the top; even using "influenced" is better regardless of repetition. Breaktheicees (talk) 05:42, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I invite you to check WP:OCON, which says that "you cannot make a convincing argument based solely on whether similar content exists on another page". But still, your claim is evidently false:

"Regarded as one of the most influential hip-hop artists of his generation, and one of the greatest rappers of all time" Kendrick Lamar
"He is credited with popularizing hip-hop in Middle America and is regarded as one of the greatest rappers of all time" Eminem
"Regarded as the "Queen of Rap" and one of the most influential rappers of all time, she is credited as a driving force in the mainstream resurgence of female rap" Nicki Minaj
"One of the most prominent figures in hip-hop" Kanye West
"he is regarded as one of history's greatest musicians" Prince (musician)
"he is regarded as one of the most significant cultural figures of the 20th century" Elvis Presley
"he is regarded as one of the most significant cultural figures of the 20th century" Michael Jackson
"Dubbed the "Prince of Pop", Billboard honored him as the best performing solo act on Pop Airplay and one of the greatest pop stars of the 21st century" Justin Timberlake
"One of the most acclaimed and influential musicians of the 20th century, he is credited as a pioneer and influence by musicians across a range of genres" Stevie Wonder
"Acclaimed by critics and musicians, particularly for his work during the 1970s, his music and showmanship have had a significant, lasting impact on the music industry" Elton John

Ultimately, we really need to stick to source (again, please read up on WP:STICKTOSOURCE), and the continuous removal of content despite its encyclopedic material and the use of many reliable sources, seemingly because of all the "other singers" who have received "much more praise than Beyonce", is not appropriate. Bgkc4444 (talk) 09:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Are there multiple sources out there that say Beyonce "has influenced (or transformed) popular music with her vocal ability, live performances and artistic innovations" whatever that is supposed to mean? ~~ Jessintime (talk) 15:43, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Side point and no need for the snarky comment - I didn't add that but just tried to improve it Bgkc4444 (talk) 17:18, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

edit needed

Since you guys have this article protected, I can't edit this sentence, but it needs to be edited. It's under "Career beginnings." "The move reduced the family's income by half, and Beyoncé's parents were forced to sell their house and cars and move into separated apartments."

It should say separate apartments, which is what the source article says, not separated apartments. 76.202.192.102 (talk) 21:35, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]