Talk:Bayt Daras

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picture

Does anyone know what this structure is? [1]. According to the co-ord on the picture, it is just NE of Bayt Daras, towards Be'er Tuvia. On the 1942-map it says "Landing Ground"...was it some sort of military air field? Cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The popup at amudanan says it was a Tegart fort used as a British police station. On the 1942 map it is to the right of the landing ground (1225/1274), marked "P.S." for "Police Station". It is 3km from Bayt Daras so its relevance is unclear. Zero^talk 21:52, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I see it. I would say it is not extremely relevant for this village, then. (Not exactly "typical village architecture" ;) ) Cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:06, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, if I understand the map [2] "Plan of partition" and this correctly, then Bayt Daras was supposed to be in the Arab state, at the very border with the Jewish state. So that above Tegart fort was to have been just at the border. Huldra (talk) 22:58, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bardagha (Kh.)

Bardagha (Kh.), place #22 in Petersen, 2001, is located 120.128 31.45N/34.41E (Palmer 1881, 269; SWP, II, 423 ). This place is located about 2 km NNE of Bayt Daras, Huldra (talk) 23:28, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Massacre

This article has been linked to at Template:Massacres against Palestinians. If you have an opinion about it, please participate in the discussion.“WarKosign ” 06:03, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

tell the truth the whole story not one sided

the prior attacks from beyt jaras were missing so i added it u make it look like this village was only defended --109.64.142.156 (talk) 13:16, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any reliable sources for the claims? If so, feel free to restore this information. --Al Ameer (talk) 17:32, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. here are some documentions from those who have been there. atleast 300 arabs attacked the kibbutz nitzanim. probaly from beit daras http://adhalom.blogspot.co.il/2006/04/2.html#daras1 But it's in hebrew ,so i dont know what is the site's policy about forgein languages..you can see the pictures and all other things in the link. --79.177.37.189 (talk) 18:31, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have anything else besides a Hebrew blog? If these attacks happened, surely there are scholarly or news sources that documented it. --Al Ameer (talk) 18:47, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

unfortunatly just like the attack on bus 2094,there are no exports of this information in english. http://he.wiki.x.io/wiki/%D7%94%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%A4%D7%94_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%98%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A1_2094 here is more information in hebrew from people who have probaly been there : http://www.orianit.edu-negev.gov.il/regavimbt/sites/homepage/rachel/amazatar.htm

it's of the ministry of eduction south district

--79.177.37.189 (talk) 18:51, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't there be even one Israeli scholarly source out there mentioning any such large-scale attack from Bayt Daras' residents? I did a quick search on google books and found nothing. You might have better luck. If a reliable source can't be provided, the chances of this information being included in the article is slim to none. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:02, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In the hebrew article here is what is written : [the memories of givati's soldiers,and benny morris book http://elibrary.kiu.ac.ug:8080/jspui/bitstream/1/102/1/1948_-_The_first_Arab-Israeli_War_-_Benny_Morris.pdf] "Beit Daras offered serious resistance, and some twenty villagers were killed (along with four Israelis) and forty wounded before the village was conquered. Givgati’s official history notes that “the attackers took care not to harm noncombatants, old people, women, and children [even though Beit Daras was considered] a village of murderers, the hands of its inhabitants covered in blood.”268" page 179 in the online book,162 in the book ...

the first battle : april 1948 . In 20 of april 1948 hunders of the arabs of beit daras under the command of al afriki attacked kibbutz nitzanim. brigade 53 that was active in the area was called for help and attacked in 21 of april the village in order to force the attackers to return to their village. i can describe more of the article ,but it's really not my fault that it is not written in english ... --79.177.211.4 (talk) 00:01, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Source questioned

The text as I found it doesn't in any way square with several accounts in Palestinian sources. Out of the blue, we read:

In response to hundreds of fighters from Bayt Daras attacking Kibbutz Nitzanim,<ref>Wallach, J., ed. (2003). Battle Sites in Israel (English title) (in Hebrew). Jerusalem, Israel: Carta. pp. 188–189. ISBN 965-220-494-3.

This comes from Jehuda L. Wallach, a Givati commander involved precisely in the 1948 battles in this area. What is the relationship between Nitzanim and, in the Palestinian accounts, Tabiyya, the nearest Jewish village which was identified as the source of the first attacks? Wallach's account has a kibbutz suddenly beseiged by '400' villagers from Beit Daras, a huge force in terms of the village's available young manpower, and most accounts say that Jewish firepower from the beginning was overwhelming. So for the moment, I consider it a questionable RS, and have transferred the data here. Nishidani (talk) 14:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]