Talk:Atlantic Isles

The Atlantic Isles is an alternative name for the British isles

No it isn't. It is the name used for loads of different groupings in the Atlantic as shown in the references I supplied. One (very uncommon, as it happens, though that is probably not important) being the British Isles. Restoring the fully sourced text. Mucky Duck 10:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What is wrong with the more accurate intro explaining the more generalised nature of Atlantic Isles (apart from "I don't like it"?). Explanation required for the reverts. Mucky Duck 11:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

yes as noted in the article in has its "inaccuracies" but this has to effect regarding the discussion of the term in the context it was intended, as quoted from factual authored historical documents today and the british irish council together with its derivation from "islands of the ocean" from the past when the islands you included were unknown.

plus your references are merely some travel agencies not authored citationsCaomhan27 11:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lost an edit there due to "edit conflict" - I was saying that you can't just choose the "context it was intended" because that's the one you like. To leave out the other meanings - and more, to be prescriptive in the introduction about just one of those meanings - gives a wildy inaccurate impression. Mucky Duck 11:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. There are far more real-world examples of this term being used for Caribbean islands than there is for it being used as a replacement for British Isles. Caomhan - please see WP:OWN. You do not get to be arbiter of what is included here, it has to follow WP policy and consensus. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 12:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A consensus must be reached before any additions it has not, the inclusion of the extra text in out of context with the term as being discussed Caomhan27 12:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are now two users telling you to stop removing the referenced material, which clearly shows that the term Atlantic Isles is used in amny (referenced!) contexts. Stop removing referenced information. The consensus is to include! Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 12:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More than enough of this now. I have reported Caomhan27's 6 reverts to date. Mucky Duck 12:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Likewise how about being constructive rather than a povian your additions would be welcome in the "atlantic Islands" area where you would be free to discuss your interest in the islands you mentioned but they have no place in a topic about a specific term that is used as an alternate for the british isles and that derives from older Oceani Insulae which is only about those islands in question this is a specfic topic about the term "atlantic Isles" in reference to the northern ireland peace process authored historian references in order to avoid other controversial term british isles again It is noted at then end of the article that the term can be misleading the same as IONA how about a single disambiguation link to the "atlantic Islands" at the top?Caomhan27 13:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please edit the above for clarity?

On topic - "Atlantic Isles" is most assuredly not an alternative term for the British Isles. The first four pages of this search all refer to the Caribbean! (Ok, two exceptions - one refers to the Vikings in the "North Atlantic Isles" and one returns a pdf document which references an organisation having Atlantic Isles as part of its name). So, your assertion that it is a replacement term for the British Isles has not been proven. Yes, it may be used - but if so, its by a tiny minority. Suggesting otherwise is misleading.

The section 'Origins of the term' spends its first three paragraphs talking about an entirely different term - Oceani Insulae (the "Islands of the Ocean"). This claim is then made, without reference or citation: "The term "Atlantic Isles" was coined due to the fact that the ocean of the aforementioned "islands of the ocean" in question is today called the Atlantic, and so the Atlantic Isles name was born (Islands as outlined in the map shown)." Who coined it? When? In what context? What relevance do the preceding three paragraphs have to a completely different term? This constitutes original research.

The references/footnotes are misleading. The Emerald Isle is a poetic term for Ireland - the fact that people sometimes call it such does not mean people are trying to replace its name. Same for AI/BI. The "HSQ Henrique" book was written in 1905, not 2005; One of the references is repeated three times.

Bottom line - either this can be a properly referenced article about the various uses of the name (i.e., mainly Caribbean islands, and a very occasional euphemism for the British Isles) - or it can be a POV piece of original research, which will end up at WP:AFD. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 15:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ok some good points, i actually was going to amalgamate it with another article as it is not strong enough on its own, but the term in reference to Ireland great britain etc does exist and you should add ireland after the "atlantic Isles" search and you will find the authored references of which i refered to. on the question of who coined the term, can you specifically tell me who coined the british isles term?. I will grant you the fact that the Oceani Insulae is not the atlantic Isles but it does refer only to ireland britain etc and the ocean in question is now called the atlantic hardly an unreasonable linkage but yes i have not yet searched for a quote linking the two,Caomhan27 22:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The term British Isles was coin by Peter Heylin in 1621. That information is in the British Isles article. Please do not "link" things that appear obvious that is original research. Refer published sources that support your claims instead. --sony-youth^pléigh 22:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have already stated that i should have had a quote to back it up and i will look into it, peter heylin did not coin the phrase he was just the first person to use it in a published book/article big difference you have no idea where he heard it first or if he invented it himselfCaomhan27 23:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

True, but the very first person to say it is impossible to prove (it would always be possible that someone else said it before then, just that no-one heard them say it, etc.), so we go with the OED. Didn't mean to bite you over the reference stuff, sorry. --sony-youth^pléigh 23:20, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

nah probsCaomhan27 23:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Redirection to Atlantic Archipelago

The redirection is better than the explicit claim to this term, but the implication is still incorrect. Atlantic Isles means different things to different people at different times. The most common is probably its use to mean Canaries, Azores and Madeira. Then maybe the Scottish or the Florida Atlantic Isles.

... And just one, uncommon as it happens, of these meanings is as an alternative for the British Isles.

Mucky Duck 14:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree, although I'm not sure the term is notable enough to have an article to itself. Perhaps the best course of action is an RfD? Waggers 14:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]