Talk:Al-Hasakah Governorate

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[[Syria#Ethnicities|Ethnicities]]

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Kurds/Arabs

There are about 1 million Kurds in Syria, and about 1 million inhabitants in Al Hasakah. Kurds in Syria are more dispersed than other countries so I highly doubt that the the majority of the 1 million inhabitants of Al Hasakah are Kurds. I add that to the fact that the Syrian government has moved in large numbers of Arab farmers over the past 30 years and that Al Hasakah has large numbers of Armenians and Assyrians.Yuber^(talk) 23:53, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Yuber.

I have alreaddy cited source in the article. Another thing is this that the number of Kurds is not 1 Million there but about 2 millions.

Thank you D iyako Talk + 00:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Diyako. The source isn't very direct, doesn't give exact numbers, and is from 1987, but I'll leave it there until I can find something better. Yuber^(talk) 00:26, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yuber.

Here I found a credible source. Kurds form 9% of syrian 19,046,520 population [1] and mostly living in northeast corner (Al Hasaka province) of Syria. Which as a result proves that Kurds are the majority in the province.

Thank you. D iyako Talk + 00:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bogus claim

"The Al Hasakah Governorate (Arabic: مُحافظة الحسكة, Syriac: ܓܨܪܛܐ Gozarto) is a governorate in the far north-east corner of Syria that has the Euphrates river running through it. "

A comparison of the boundaries of this governorate and the path of the Euphrates river, suggests that the Euphrates river does not flow though this governorate at all, and it doesn't even flow along any of its boundaries. Eregli bob (talk) 13:24, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Villages

There is no source for the Village section and which ethnic group they belong to. Either state a source or remove it. 85.227.176.244 (talk) 17:58, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Mass content removal

~~Amr, how do you justify your mass content removal? Konli17 (talk) 20:06, 1 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

You removed half the article and replaced with different content. I just restored the stable version. If you want to add content, do so while respecting existing content and structure. Otherwise, you can put your content here on the Talk page, similar to what we did in Democratic Union Party (Syria) and Syrian Kurdistan. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 20:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Amr, you removed more than half of the article. Konli17 (talk) 20:33, 1 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

No my friend, you removed all census and sourced, relevant population numbers, history, and replaced that with other info. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 04:13, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone with eyes can see the reams of relevant information you removed, only to replace it with a bloated section on a niche subject that would be better placed in its own article. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone remove so much in one go. Have you no conscience? Konli17 (talk) 04:19, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What does information about Kurdish tribes living in Turkey (Adiyman and Mardin) have to do with al-Hasakah Governorate. You just copied large volumes of text from the Kurds in Syria page, and this shows that information is better suited there, no relevance here. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 05:02, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You removed reams of info on the governorate's history and geography, and you pick on one little detail as an excuse for that? What gives you the right to colonise an article about a political division of a state that came into existence in the 1940s with a bloated, POV-pushing section about migration before the state's existence, to the extent it takes up half the page? Konli17 (talk) 13:46, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Konli17 added a lot of interesting content to the article. Also the info about the tribes that had their pastoral land in the area is interesting.Also the image he added. The several tables take up a lot of space of the article and cover a large timespan. The timespan can be covered in the article too, but maybe not with tables that take up ca 3/4 of the articles room. They also need about 5000 of the ca. 8000 characters which compose the article. The part about the characters you can double-check this at https://wordcounter.net.As to me, I have not yet seen an article about a province where the demographics were in need of so much room. Not in Italy, nor Great Britain, Turkey or Catalunya.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 15:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I understand very well that showing numbers of ethnic composition in al-Hasakah governorate does not suit your Kurdish POV-pushing agenda, PC and Konli. You are drawing comparision with Italy, etc. where no body is claiming ethnic majority and claiming this area being part of a "gretaer Kurdistan. These numbers are very relevant here for this very specific reason, that some people are claiming this to be part of a Kurdistan, when Kurds are really a minority on these lands, and have always been. The increase in Kurdish population during the last century happened thanks to welcoming French occupation (and Arab administration at times) to Kurdish (and Christian) immigrants from Turkey starting in WWI. Konli added info about Kurdish tribes from Turkey coming down in the winter to graze with their flocks. How is this relevant here? It would be relevant in a Kurdification of northeastern Syria article to come. As for space and article size, last time I checked there was no limit to article sizes. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 21:36, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Your projection and lack of self-awareness continue to astound. Stop your POV-pushing mass removal of content, and take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. Konli17 (talk) 22:57, 2 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

You calling amr Pov pusher and conspiracy theorist but you adding deprecated unreliable sources/fake news, little bit hypocrisy?Peacetowikied (talk) 05:36, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Amr asked for my input here. I'd ask that this be kept as impersonal as possible and not let things devolve into endless ethno-national debate--this is not the appropriate place. I see no valid reason to remove the tables of population statistics, they seem pertinent and valuable enough to warrant inclusion here. However, since there was no "Hasakah Governorate" in place before the modern republic of Syria, any information about the area before the governorate's creation in the History or Demographics sections should be clarified as being in the "area roughly corresponding to the territory of the governorate" or something along these lines. --Al Ameer (talk) 18:15, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Al Ameer, you are sort of a specialist in GAs and FAs, my congratulations for this. But as such you also know what a good balanced article is. 3/4 to one topic is not good for wikipedia. I haven't seen any article about a province with such a detailed info about demographics. Before Konli17s edit, the article resembled more an article about the Demographics of Al Hasakah Governorate. There already exist several articles about Demographics, not only of countries and provinces, even of districts, and they are often not as detailed as the info represented in the Hasakah Governorate article before. So I suggest we create one about the demographics of Al Hasakah Governorate and make a main article wikilink. If you really want to have a table within the article as well, ok, I suggest we include the one about the growth of the population and mention the immigration of the Kurds, the %numbers and more info would be available in the separate article about the Demographics of Al Hasakah. If Amr creates one, great, if not, I will.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 19:07, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Paradise Chronicle: I don't understand the beef with the tables and the size of the article, and I would not be concerned with other countries--it's simply not relevant that we don't see similar situations with italian or British, etc. district articles, see wp:other. If proportion is a concern for anyone, then expand the article. There is a lot of room to expand the History and Geography sections, there's nothing about the Economy, very little about Archaeology, etc. There are four tables that I see: 1st a 1939 French Mandatory government survey of the ethnic composition of 14 major localities currently located in the governorate; 2nd the 1943 and 1953 Syrian govt censuses on population and religious composition; 3rd a population history table (numbers of inhabitants only); and 4th a table of localities in the governorate based on ethnic composition, though the source for this table (National Association of Arab Youth) does not seem reliable. The 4th table could be converted to prose. We cannot get rid of the other tables that simply survey the ethnic, religious composition and population of the governorate and its major cities over the course of modern history because we are missing a similar table specifically about Kurdish, Assyrian, Armenian immigration/relocation/refugees from Turkey in the early 20th century or the settlement of Arabs into the region by the Syrian govt in the late 20th century. If such statistics are available to anyone, then they should incorporate them here as well, unless it makes more sense to write such information in prose form instead of as a table. Definitely no need to create a separate article on the "Demographics of al-Hasakah Province", this would be an unnecessary fork. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Al Ameer son: Hm, you answer quick :), I already created one, but only in the Userpace and I'll wait for the outcome of the further discussion to see if it is still needed. You are right, several sections can be expanded.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:15, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Of course it's relevant. Amr's using this article as a dump for everything they've been unable to foist on the Kurds in Syria article over the last few years. Konli17 (talk) 03:28, 6 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

As I stated, I'm less interested in the back and forth of the POV-pushing wars taking place on the Syrian civil war-related pages, but there's nothing about the tables in this article that justifies their removal, except for the one cited by the Natl. Assn. of Arab Youth, and that's not because of the content of that particular table rather than the source appearing to be unreliable—unless I'm wrong about that. The other tables simply show relevant demographic statistics from the 20th century. Al Ameer (talk) 18:47, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another, reliable source for the 4th table showing the number of villages by ethnicity. As Al Ameer son said, all four tables are important context for this article. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 18:51, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, there's no excuse for this article being totally out of synch with the other governorates of Syria articles, as well as pretty much every sub-state polity article I've ever seen. This has been done better, and more concisely, elsewhere. Amr's amateur effort reeks of POV. Konli17 (talk) 19:07, 6 August 2020 (UTC) [reply]

~~Al Ameer, please debate the points raised here rather than in edit summaries. Konli17 (talk) 13:52, 7 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

I have already. The burden is on you to justify the removal of relevant tables of statistics from this article. Your reasonings, i.e. other Syrian governorate articles lack similar information or that Amr’s motives are questionable, have thus far not been justifiable for the tables’ removal. The other Syrian governorate articles are all bare bones and bad examples; if anything, they should be similarly expanded to include their administrative history or the history of their territory, their demographics, economy, archaeology, etc. —Al Ameer (talk) 14:31, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~It has been done better, and more concisely, elsewhere. There's no justification for this unfocused (except in time) meandering. Konli17 (talk) 15:28, 7 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

Every time we have details that show the origins and current numbers of Kurds in Syria you try to remove that, here in Syrian Kurdistan, Kurds in Syria, etc. I wonder why! Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 17:34, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm all in favour of a balanced, neutral, and appropriately sized appraisal of the origins and current numbers of Kurds in Syria. I've seen no evidence you're capable of that. Konli17 (talk) 17:45, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, neutral, that shows from 99% of your edits. Not funny!! Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 17:47, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~You don't really believe that. Konli17 (talk) 19:10, 7 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

~~It has been done better, and more concisely, elsewhere. There's no justification for this unfocused (except in time) meandering. Konli17 (talk) 21:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]~~

~~S4D, anything to add? Konli17 (talk) 14:02, 19 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

Yes, why you deleted all background history? Specific from 30s, all these info is relevant here because it is about Al-Hasakah Governorate and not Al-Hasakah city.Shadow4dark (talk) 14:16, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~It has been done better, and more concisely, elsewhere. There's no justification for this unfocused (except in time) meandering. Konli17 (talk) 14:20, 19 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

Better to you Konli17 means hiding facts, no thanks. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 17:10, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Create an article Amr, and stop trying to shoehorn this in everywhere you think you can get away with it. Konli17 (talk) 23:09, 19 August 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

Orphaned references in Al-Hasakah Governorate

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Al-Hasakah Governorate's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "constitution":

From Assyrian Democratic Party: "New Syrian Constitution Should Recognize Assyrians as Natives - Democratic Party". Sputnik (news agency). 21 April 2017. Retrieved 10 June 2017.
From Jazira Region: "The Constitution of the Rojava Cantons". Personal Website of Mutlu Civiroglu.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:25, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]