Talk:Aknaf Bait al-Maqdis

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Hamas flag

The source does not show them using the flag, it shows a photograph of a parade that then fades to black and white and a black flag is overlayed over the image. Concluding whether they do or don't use that flag from that image is a level of interpretation that isn't appropriate for a Wikipedia citation. MWQs (talk) 14:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Even if it didn't fade out and get covered, an image of a parade is ambiguous. e.g. at the funeral of Mohammed Deif's wife there were more PFLP flags near her than Hamas flags. But what those flags mean requires other reliable sources to interpret, I can't use that photo alone to say Widad was in the PFLP or say that "Hamas sometimes use the same flag as the PFLP" without other sources saying that explicitly. MWQs (talk) 14:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

@MWQs: Ah, now I understand the issue: The archived page is not fully preserved -or rather, parts of it were evidently lost at some point. Ironically, the parade images had nothing to do with the flag attribution. Now, when you open the archived website, you see large white and black areas, right? Well, originally these were plastered with giant versions of the Hamas flag. If I remember it correctly, the page even looked mostly green. The current look of the preserved page with these large empty space is basically a ruin of the original. No idea what happened to the archived version - I added the archived link in the first place, back in the day, so I vaguely remember how it used to look like. What should we do in such a situation? Applodion (talk) 22:46, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

@Applodion, If you clearly remember seeing it like that, try looking for an older or newer archived version? Or an archive of a different page on the website? Or alternate URL, Arabic websites sometimes have two urls for each page because arabic language page names end up huge when converted to the restricted character set for URLs.

But I checked it that link on two different days and I didn't notice any black or white gaps. It took a few moments to load but the wasn't anything obviously missing. There were a few different little insignia, but none matched Hamas or Al Qassam, and differently no big green flags except in the photo.

But if it's still one of many symbols the flag could indicate an alliance (I'll try to find examples of that I can link). or even a one way endorsement. It's too ambiguous to cite as the flag they use for themselves unless it's very clearly their main / only flag.

If there's not something unambiguous to cite we should just skip the flag, most of the other groups are missing flags or insignia for copyright reasons anyway.

MWQs (talk) 07:33, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@MWQs: Regarding the flag, there also exist photos of Aknaf Bait al-Maqdis having Hamas flags as headbands or armbands (i.e. green-white Shahada), though one could argue that these are no definitive proof either. Regarding the website, I cannot find an older version which still has the old logos. Anyway, an alternative would be the use of the group's logo instead of a flag: French wikipedia already uses it, and one can easily find sources for it, see for example here. Applodion (talk) 09:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

References