Talk:27 Club/Archive 6

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Changing of picture used besides Jim Morrisons place on the 27 Club graph

Jim Morrison himself is reported to have been disdainful of his appearance near the end of his life, this picture being an example of the said late-era Morrison. Not only was he in-part immortalized for his "Dionysion" good looks but to have this picture used in particular, as opposed to the numerous others flooding the internet is unfair to his legacy and career from a journalistic ethic as well as from the perspective of those attempting to discover, admire, or reminisce about the legendary artist. Its also a very minor edit to the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.7.71 (talk) 01:04 (UTC), 20 August 2011

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2015

Please remove Slađa Guduraš from the list of people who belong to the 27 Club. There is no reference for her inclusion as a member of the club. Thank you. Tika88 (talk) 00:01, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

 Not done Using Google Translate on the last paragraph of the cited reference, an article in Bosnian, gives this text: "Some music icons that have left a trail of tragedy have left this world at the age of 27. Among them are Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, Brian Jones, Amy Winehouse, but the Macedonian singer Tose Proeski." This is clearly a reference to the 27 Club, and specifically mentions its most famous members. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 04:23, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

is a term that refers to

The 27 Club is a term that refers to a number of popular musicians who died at age 27

The Club is not a term, the Club is a group or list. That there's no formal organization (would we know if there were?) is not enough, imho, to break WP:REFERS. —Tamfang (talk) 18:54, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Dimitar Voev

Please add Dimitar Voev to this article. He was born on 21 May 1965 and died on 5 September 1992 of cancer. 14.200.122.144 (talk) 05:36, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Do you have a source that connects him with the "27 Club"? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

[1] - Воев е българският представител в митологизирания „Клуб 27“ (Voev is the Bulgarian representative of the mythologised "27 Club") 14.200.122.144 (talk) 08:10, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, added. Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:56, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Valentin Elizalde

PLEASE !! He can´t be here, please, please pretty please, its a Banda Singer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.147.129.48 (talk) 03:52, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Do you have a source that connects him with the "27 Club"? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:35, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

He's already in the article. I believe the IP editor is suggesting -- whether seriously or not, I'm not sure -- that he be removed. But since he's a popular musician with a source associating him with the 27 Club, he should stay on the list. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 12:14, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Ah, my mistake. Just another variation on the "they're not good enough to be in the club, in my opinion" argument. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:40, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Katy Perry - By the Grace of God

I posted Katy Perry's song "By the Grace of God" as an example of a song that references the 27 club, although in a subtle way (it does not specifically mention the club, but she does mention that she was 27 at the time). It was deleted, since it needed a source. Do you want a source for the lyrics? Or a source that Katy Perry considered suicide at age 27? Mitsguy2001 (talk) 17:15, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

We need a source that says the lyrics are a reference to "27 Club". Whether Perry considered suicide, and what the lyrics say exactly is of secondary importance. Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:46, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Stuart Baggs

A short time ago Stuart Baggs was added to the list. Should he be left in, or taken out? The cited reference has a quote referring to the 27 Club. But, Mr. Bagg was not a musician, he was an entrepreneur who had appeared on television shows such as The Apprentice. So he doesn't seem to fit the definition, quote notwithstanding. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 11:27, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I've removed it. It's a judgement call that I'm happy to discuss. But basically it comes down to him not being a musician, as per the definition in the lead, and the source cited only mentions the club in a quote by a third party. So the source itself doesn't place him in the 27 club. Just some minor celeb in a tweet. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 14:56, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

That makes sense to me. Thanks. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 22:28, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Notability

This article is supposed to be regarding a list of popular musicians who died at 27 years of age. Some years ago it was exactly that. It has now turned into a list of nobodies who died at 27 years of age. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.67.173 (talk) 09:30, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

then change it to Losers Who Croaked Before Turning 28

47.140.183.239 (talk) 21:25, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

• WP:SOFIXIT UW Dawgs (talk) 18:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

This has been discussed, at great length, several times before - see the archives. The last time, the consensus was to keep these "nobodies who died at 27 years of age" as you describe them.
Please see Talk:27 Club/Archive 5#Who should be listed + Talk:27 Club/Archive 5#Who should be included for the last two discussions.
I'd happily join in another discussion, but editors views on this seem remarkably entrenched. - Arjayay (talk) 18:35, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2015

Under references in music, another may be added from "Colors" by Halsey, where there is a lyric saying "I hope you make it to the day you're 28 years old"

82.38.107.97 (talk) 13:01, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —Skyllfully ^(talk | _contribs) 06:05, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I've found a reliable source for this (an interview with the artist), and added it to the page. --Poppy Appletree (talk) 17:31, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Slađa Guduraš

Who is she to be in this list??? OK then, lets add all of the people who died at 27... Cmon — Preceding unsigned comment added by Infibit (talk • contribs) 21:34, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Like it says in the list, she's a pop singer who died at the age of 27. For inclusion in the list there must also be a reference to a source saying that the musician is a member of the 27 Club, or something similar. Why do you ask, is there a problem with including Ms. Guduraš? — Mudwater ^(Talk) 23:46, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Where is Shannon Hoon???

Shannon Hoon has to be one of the bigger names associated to the so called "27 Club". He was the lead singer of Blind Melon who died at the age of 27 on October 21, 1994 from an apparent overdose of cocaine. I do not know how to edit articles, so could somebody please be so kind as to confirm my facts and insert his name onto this list. Some may consider this list as a sort of morbid curiosity, however I think it should be considered in a more rememberance-like sense, and Shannon Hoon was an outstanding talent who deserves no less than to be remembered. Thank you. NON MVTATA (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

References

He was 28 when he died. Our article on him did briefly say 27, but it was vandalism which has since been reverted. AllMusic confirms he was 28. Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 06:56, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

The article also said he died in 1994 before it was corrected. Nice to see there are people with nothing better to do than cause mayhem. Thanks for the correction. NON MVTATA (talk) 22:51, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2015

Please add Zenon de Fleur (born Zenon Hierowski) to this list. Born September 9, 1951. Died March 17, 1979 of a heart attack due to complications suffered in a car accident. Guitarist for the Count Bishops.

Source used: 27: A History of the 27 Club "The Long List" https://books.google.com/books?id=NWT9CAAAQBAJ&pg=PA304&lpg=PA304&dq=zenon+de+fleur+27+club&source=bl&ots=rJXweQAPAr&sig=jDrmjwDElzaPy6e3ozc8wLhXhzI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj77IikyurJAhXCJx4KHXFeBR4Q6AEIJjAD#v=onepage&q=zenon%20de%20fleur%2027%20club&f=false

This source mentions other musicians not on this entry. You may be interested in adding them as well. They are also included in the above source. Last names are: Khumalo, Leonard, Morris, Niec, Rudetsky, Shari and Smith.

162.119.128.142 (talk) 13:40, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Not done; the guitarist does not have a Wikipedia article, and is outside the article's scope of " popular musicians who died at age 27, often as a result of drug and alcohol abuse, or violent means such as homicide or suicide". — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 17:49, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Gee, I dunno. By prior consensus, someone doesn't have to have their own Wikipedia article to be included in the list, they just have to be a popular musician who is mentioned by one or more reliable sources as a member of the 27 Club. Nor do they have to have died by misadventure, natural causes are okay too. This has been discussed more than once, but I think the main discussion is at Talk:27 Club/Archive 4#RfC: Should there be two lists of musicians or one, and who should be included?. So, maybe Zenon de Fleur should be included. P.S. The Count Bishops do have a Wikipedia article. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 00:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

 Done Accordingly, I have added Mr. De Fleur to the table, with appropriate references of course. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 01:06, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

In references in music...

I would like to request the song "27" by Vanlis be added. Natasha Negovanlis, the co-writer and singer, makes multiple references to the 27 Club and was the inspiration for writing the song, except for mentioning Freddie Mercury. In was in a interview with After Ellen host that she states it is a reference to the 27 Club. 16mjs915 (talk) 08:15, 11 January 2016 (UTC)Sylar

References

More references in music

I would like to suggest some additions to the "References in Music" section of this page.

• The song "Colors," by Halsey, contains the lines "You're only happy when your sorry head is filled with dope, I hope you make it to the day you're 28 years old," which seem to be a reference to the 27 Club and wishing that the subject would not find themselves joining it.
• The song "Hooray for Hollywood," by Neon Trees, includes a list of names of celebrities who died young, most from drug overdoses. Several of the names in this list reference members of the 27 Club, including Amy (Winehouse), Janis (Joplin), Jimi (Hendrix), and the Lizard King (Jim Morrison). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lyrael58 (talk • contribs) 07:13, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2016

I would like to edit this page because the cause of death for Kurt Cobain is incorrect. He did not commit suicide, his wife Courtney Love hired someone to kill him. All of this is explained in detail in the "Soaked in Bleach" documentary on Netflix. I encourage you to change his cause of death to the correct thing. It would be greatly appreciated.

Hannahgibby5 (talk) 14:14, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

 Not done That's a fringe theory -- a hypothesis that is not widely accepted, and lacks actual evidence -- and potentially defames a living person. Other editors are welcome to add their opinions. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 14:24, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Jim Morrison's Cause of Death

Heart attack isn't correct. Nobody ever did an autopsy so it could've been anything from drug OD to drowning — Preceding unsigned comment added by New-americana02 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Looking around on the internet, it sounds like a doctor certified Jim Morrison's cause of death as heart failure (not heart attack), but an autopsy wasn't performed. It also sounds like a lot of people think that he died of a heroin overdose, but there's not any direct evidence of that. I think the best approach would be to say something like "certified as heart failure, but no autopsy was performed", and leave it at that, preferably with a better reference than the one that's there now. What does anyone else think? — Mudwater ^(Talk) 00:41, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Generally speaking it is not a good idea to include mentions of things that didn't happen, because it can be read as a suggestion that they should have happened. Also, lots of things didn't happen, why mention just this one thing unless it is to express an opinion about events? It is possible to mention things that didn't happen, if they are notable and sources can be found discussing what didn't happen. But, really, this article is not the place for discussing this tangential topic. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 18:25, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Though it took many years to come out (statute of limitations, anyone?) there is quite a bit of testimony now that it was an accidental heroin overdose. Read the sources on the death section of the Morrison article. The reason there was no autopsy (the usual procedure when a young person dies) was because the coroner and medical examiner were bribed. Again, see the sourcing. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 21:03, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

@CorbieVreccan: That sounds reasonable to me. Can you provide links here in this talk section, to what you think would be the best references to use for that, here on this article? The top two or three should do it, I think. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 00:16, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

P.S. If you're feeling ambitious, I'd say go ahead and update the table entry in the article, as long as you include a few good references. Perhaps it should say something like, "Heart failure listed as official cause of death, but later sources suggest accidental heroin overdose." — Mudwater ^(Talk) 00:28, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

My concern about this would be that what should be a concise table column will change from "Official cause of death" to "Official cause of death, plus any other theories raised by some people afterwards". And there a number of deaths in the list that have plenty of them. But this article shouldn't be drawn into that territory, the place for notable theories is the personal article where they can get appropriate coverage and due weight. That's the very reason why the column was deliberately titled Official cause of death. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:48, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

That's a good point. So according to that, the table should be left as it is, right? I guess that makes sense. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 00:32, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2016

Under the references in music section, I think the following reference should be added.

From the song Colors, by artist Halsey she says: "I hope you make it to the day you’re 28 years old". She is specifically talking about Matty Healy, from the band 'The 1975's". He is a drug user and she is saying she hopes he makes it past the 27 club. For confirmation see http://genius.com/5089587

AcBush08 (talk) 08:11, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Your cite doesn't mention the article's topic. There is nothing to say that the lyric is a reference to "27 Club". --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:45, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2016

Tomas Lowe of the band Viola Beach died in a Road Accident at the age of 27 years and 261 days. His birthday was the 12/05/1988.

Here is an article to support: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/14/five-british-men-die-in-car-crash-in-stockholm-sweden

Could this please be added?

Kind regards. Kenster364 (talk) 13:52, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Your cite doesn't mention the article's topic, or make any reference to his age. This isn't a list of musicians who died aged 27, it is about those who have been attributed (by reliable sources) membership of "27 Club". --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:45, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Tomas Lowe of the band Viola Beach was 27, and one can find references for that: [2] [3] [4]. But as Escape Orbit said, what we need is a reference referring to him as a member of the 27 Club. This is by a prior consensus of editors. See the archived talk pages, but the main discussion is at Talk:27 Club/Archive 4#RfC: Should there be two lists of musicians or one, and who should be included?. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 16:30, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Here is an article referencing his age and the "27 club"

http://miamistudent.net/?p=17015223

Kind regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenster364 (talk • contribs) 17:39, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@Kenster364:  Done. Thanks for the reference. ("... bassist Tomas Lowe joins Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain and an eerie amount of other musicians in the "27 Club", the unofficial name for the phenomenon that sees many famous musicians never make it past 27 years old.") — Mudwater ^(Talk) 17:56, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Dimitar Voev again

@Ohnoitsjamie: You have removed Dimitar Voev from the article twice today, here and here, on the basis that he is not notable. There have been several discussions about the criteria for being included in the table of 27 Club "members" in this article, of which the most comprehensive is at Talk:27 Club/Archive 4#RfC: Should there be two lists of musicians or one, and who should be included?. The consensus of that discussion is that the musician does not have to be notable to be included. But they do have to be (1) a popular musician who died at the age of 27 and (2) be mentioned in relation to the 27 Club (or a similar name like "the Forever 27 Club") by a secondary source. And as far as notability goes, there's also WP:NNC, which says that Wikipedia notability guidelines do not apply to content within an article, they apply to whether or not the subject should have its own article. So, I'm going to put Mr. Voev back in the article again. Feel free to discuss this further here, and other editors are also encouraged to join in the fun. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 22:39, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Edit Request 03/05/2016

Ed Sheeran references the club in his song 'The Man' from the 2014 album 'X' upon saying "and I'll be writing my will before I'm 27, I'll die from the thrill, go down in history as just a waste of talent". Emilyrhiannon (talk) 23:34, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Where does the lyric mentions a 'club' or similar? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:01, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Thomas Fekete

Unfortunately, two days ago, Thomas Fekete (of Surfer Blood) died of complications with cancer. Shouldn't you add him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Killerqueenie46 (talk • contribs) 19:13, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Are there reliable sources that make a connection between Fekete and the 27 club? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:21, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Anton Yelchin

Name: Anton Yelchin Date of death: June 19, 2016 Cause of death: Crushed by car Fame: American film and television actor Age: 27 years, 70 days http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/19/entertainment/actor-anton-yelchin-killed/index.html http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-me-anton-yelchin-20160619-snap-story.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:E007:1485:1:8881:D2EA:3B2F:EBF6 (talk) 07:50, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

 Not done as clearly stated at the top, this list is for popular musicians - not actors - Arjayay (talk) 08:04, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

More significantly; the source given does not mention the article's subject matter. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:29, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

It has been done. I see his name on the list, right now. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:02, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Anton Yelchin was a talented and popular actor. That he died recently at the age of 27 is quite sad. But, he should not be included in this article. The 27 Club is a term that refers to a number of popular musicians who died at age 27, and Mr. Yelchin was primarily an actor, not a musician. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 01:28, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Why did you start a new section? This is precisely what the section immediately above is discussing. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:29, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I've merged the two sections. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 10:23, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this. As we've discussed a number of times; this article is not about determining who is allowed, or not, admission into "The Club". Like everything in Wikipedia; it's all about the sources. What do the reliable sources say? If there are good, reliable sources that mention his death in relation to the club, then it's not up to any editor to veto that. Although the "club 27" concept started with musicians, and is still dominated by them, it's not surprising to find reliable sources extending the criteria to include other professions. All concepts that catch on tend towards dilution of their initial, narrow, definition. We can only expect more of this.

So because "27 Club" is an idea, not a real club, with real rules, ruled by a real authority, then I'm afraid no-one can say that Yelchin simply does not qualify. We have some good sources that put him in 27 Club and that's all that's needed to have him on this article. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:44, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Got me thinking. Why not have one table for musicians? And a separate table for "other"? (Better worded, of course.) And we can include that very fact you mention: the club started out in reference to musicians but, over the years, expanded to others. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:05, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

The source used to put him in the "27 club", never actually mentions the club or the superstition. It only says that he died at age 27 and that is not enough, even by the logic of this discussion, to include him.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 07:32, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

This was the source http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-me-anton-yelchin-20160619-snap-story.html --Bellerophon5685 (talk) 07:33, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

@Bellerophon5685: If you take another look at that version of the article, you'll see that there were three footnotes for Anton Yelchin. The one you mentioned was in the "official cause of death" column, and there were also two in the "27 club references" column. Of those two, the first was intended to show that he was a musician, and the second was to link him to the 27 Club. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 10:49, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

P.S. However this question gets decided, I think it would be a lot better to stick to having one table for "People identified as being in the 27 Club", not two or more. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 10:51, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Then there is nothing to discuss. Question: Who gets placed in the "club"? The answer to that is: whoever the RS's say. What else is there to discuss? As I said, the article proper can mention that the club started out in reference to musicians but, over the years, expanded to others. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:08, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

I've look all through that article above and I don't see any mention of the 27 Club. If we want him listed, we need to find an RS. BTW, this is so much apophenia - Heath Ledger died at 28, Tupac at, what, 25, Brittney Murphey at 32. List all the famous people or all the musicians that died at that particular age will find a huge number. The only thing that makes the 27 Club "special" is that the people in it were BOTH famous AND musicians.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 20:37, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

@Bellerophon5685: What makes the 27 Club "special" is that it's a "thing" -- a pop cultural phenomenon, much written-about and discussed -- unlike popular musicians (or other people) dying at other ages. As for Mr. Yelchin, please look at this BBC article, it's one of the refs from before: "The curse of the '27 Club' strikes again after Star Trek actor Anton Yelchin dies". Here's a quote: "Brian Jones from the Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and The Doors' Jim Morrison all passed away between 1969 and 1971. It's mainly been used for musicians over the years but has included actors and other stars as well. And now the list tragically has another name, Star Trek's Anton Yelchin." — Mudwater ^(Talk) 21:22, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Tsarevich Ivan Ivanovich of Russia, the son of Ivan the Terrible who wrote musics and lyrics to the mass dedicated to Anthony of Siya (I have links to that info) also died at the age of 27 (supposedly killed by his father). Is it OK to include him as well? He wasn't a popular musician, but he is a "thing"... AveTory (talk) 22:41, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

OK the BBC mentions him as part of the 27 club, but as AveTory pointed out - there are many people who have died at the age of 27 throughout history. Billions. The number of them who were musicians is definitely in the millions, if not hundreds of millions. Do ALL of these people belong in the 27 club? Now expand that to actors and other "stars". At some point you have to recognize the 27 Club as what it is - an apophenia based on logical fallacy.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 23:56, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it's an apophenia (and thanks for the new vocabulary word). It's not a scientific phenomenon, as the article itself points out. Similarly there are Wikipedia articles about other illogical notions -- fairies, chemtrail conspiracy theories, or whatever. So, where does that leave us? By previous consensus, popular musicians should be included in the article if sources can be found saying that they're a member of the 27 Club (or Forever 27 Club or similar). Now we're talking about whether actors should be included too, right? I started out saying that they should not -- see above -- but if the BBC says they're a member, then I guess they are. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 01:12, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia conversations are always useful tool in expanding ones vocabulary. I learned that kyriarchy was a thing when someone told me the word authoress was a microaggression. But I'm not sure if the 27 Club is a case of apophenia or an apophenia - still getting used to the grammar.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 04:22, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

We discussed this a number of times already. The people mentioned in the article's list are people that have been placed in "the club" by reliable sources. That's it. We can debate until the end of time whether this is right or not, but it's not up to any of us to police who is in the club, and who isn't. If a RS says he's in, he's in. If no RS says it, he's not in.

When all is said and done, it doesn't matter who is on the list, the article should be much more about the concept. It really doesn't matter who is mentioned. It's not like they have club meetings, or club privileges. It's a fiction, an apophenia (yay, new word!), an idea.

Personally I'd have a much more restrictive list, only featuring musicians who have died through some misadventure as part of a "rock star" lifestyle. But I don't get to define the club any more than anyone else does. And as I said above, concepts like this that catch on almost always end up getting diluted in their meaning. We cannot, and shouldn't, try to stop this. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 14:39, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Edit Request

In the section "References in Music," another song referencing the 27 club is Halsey's song "Colors," in which she wishes her ex-lover, a member of the 1975, makes it "to the day you're 28 years old." Eluding to his drug addiction.

Colorshalsey (talk) 15:49, 2 July 2016 (UTC)colorshalsey Colorshalsey (talk) 15:49, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi Colorshalsey, and thanks for your suggestion. It would help if you provided a reference that confirms your interpretation, so not just a link to the lyrics, but a news article or a book that reviews the song and explains the connection to the 27 club. This is to make sure each example in the "References in Music" section has some notoriety, so as to limit the size of the section. Thanks for your understanding. Altamel (talk) 16:03, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2016

The list is short one person that i noticed

11-12-2003 Johnathan Brandis dies at age 27. Self inflicted affixation Resources Wikipedia › wiki › Jonathan_Brandis

Kmoore8908 (talk) 17:10, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: Yes, but Brandis was not a musician. — Sam Sailor ^Talk! 12:08, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

If there are references to Anton Yelchin as a 27'er, perhaps there are for Brandis as well, and thus he should be included. -Etoile ✩ (talk) 20:01, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

 Not done not a musician and even if they were, no reliable source stating they are considered part of the 27 Club, "perhaps there are" is meaningless. - Arjayay (talk) 20:10, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

I am wondering

how Prince La La fits in here. I would just add him but am concerned about not having a reference for the 27 Club. Your thoughts? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:02, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Very simple - no such reference = no inclusion - Arjayay (talk) 20:11, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Doug Watkins

I'm not necessarily a believer in the theory, but Doug Watkins (March 2, 1934 --February 5, 1962) was a side man on many seminal jazz albums and even played cello on "Soulnik" after supposedly only finding the instrument three days prior. It seems as though he belongs on the list given his contributions to a genre that requires a lot of technical prowess. Best wishes to all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.118.191 (talk) 00:55, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Do you have a source that mentions him in connection to "the club"? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 11:32, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2016

The 27 Club member "Rodrigo Bueno" is wrongly linked to a Brazilian color analyst Rodrigo Bueno (the article in his name doesn't exist, so it redirects to Fox Sports Brazil, a TV channel he work). The correct article is "Rodrigo (musician)" <http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Rodrigo_(musician)>.

Dieporfer (talk) 01:28, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

 Done Thank you for pointing this out, Dieporfer. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 01:41, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2016

You forgot to mention Thuy Trang. She also died when she was 27. See http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Thuy_Trang

Marcyscreed (talk) 14:35, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

 Not done she was an actress, not a musician, and every entry must cite a reliable source referring to the person as a "member of the 27 club", just dying at 27 is not sufficient - Arjayay (talk) 16:04, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Cecilia

I‘ve been doing my usual thing of writing a question set for my blog: and I’ve come across the entry for the Spanish singer, Cecelia.

If I’ve got the dates right? It looks like she died at the age of 27.

If we can expand her article — I’m thinking adding a verifiable cause of death, as well as more about her life, would be good — can we ALSO add her to the Club?

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Cecilia_(Spanish_singer)

Cuddy2977 (talk) 17:13, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Cuddy2977: She's already listed in the article. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 22:05, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mudwater: Oh … Looks like her death’s been added since I read it. Either THAT, or I’m missing bits … ! Cuddy2977 (talk) 16:22, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mudwater: We might just need to revise her notes, though: the link to the Fortean Times Article about her death seems to have been 404ed! Cuddy2977 (talk) 07:28, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

@Cuddy2977:  Done, here. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 10:56, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

@Mudwater: Cheers! :D Cuddy2977 (talk) 11:48, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Add Alain-Fournier

Alain-Fournier was a famous French author born on the 3rd of October 1886 and died on the 22nd of September 1914. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.51.192.2 (talk) 08:54, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

It's meant to be rock musicians. Valetude (talk) 13:23, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Jonathan Brandis

I figured this would come up with the Anton Yelchen debate, but apparently it is already being reported by Rolling Stone that Jonathan Brandis is a member.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictures/a-brief-history-of-the-27-club-20131112/jonathan-brandis-20160620

Again - this goes to the point I was trying to make earlier - Brandis was neither a musician nor, at the time of his death, famous. That was even reportedly a contributing reason for his death - he was getting no parts, people had forgotten about him. Heck, I didn't even hear that he died till a decade later. But this has as much RS as Yelchen. Thoughts, anyone?--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 00:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

So, when you hear about a death is what determiners who get in and who does not? Carptrash (talk) 04:47, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

When an RS states that he is in the club, it is.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 21:19, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

I've added Jonathan Brandis to the list, here. Yes, things have evolved. You used to have to be a popular musician to get into the "club". But now people seem to have a more inclusive attitude, so to speak. By prior editorial consensus, if a reasonable third-party reference says that someone is a member of the 27 Club, then they're in. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 21:44, 22 October 2016 (UTC)