Talk:2024 visits by Viktor Orbán to Russia and China

This article was nominated for deletion on 12 July 2024. The result of the discussion was keep.

This page was proposed for deletion by Kashmiri (talk · contribs) on 12 July 2024.

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Neutrality

The term "peace missions" has been used by Orbán himself, but it cannot be used in Wikivoice. Orbán is not President of the EU, but Hungary has assumed the presidency of the Council of the EU. The important difference is that Orbán has no mandate to speak for the EU as a whole is therefore vastly overstepping the limits of his position. And that's the only important thing to say here. Rsk6400 (talk) 10:26, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources mostly talk about "meetings". ManyAreasExpert (talk) 10:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The all trip with the realized discussions is not only a simple propaganda. It is the opinion of the whole Hungarian Government, and the 75% of the population in Hungary, who want peace in the neighboured states (The position of the Hungarians remains the same: they want peace instead of war). I think that all the attitudes and efforts of the Government in the last years reflect the subject of this mission. Aakmaros (talk) 15:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's your personal opinion, Orbán's opinion, and the opinion of the obviously Orbán-connected newspaper you linked. WP is based on RS. Rsk6400 (talk) 16:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the page name to "2024 visits by Viktor Orbán to Russia and China" and clarified that the term "peace missions" was used only by Orbán and that the meetings were widely seen as attempts to appease Russia's government in its aggression towards Ukraine instead of resisting their policies and breaches of international law. I used the term "peace missions" in the title because it was inclusive of all the meetings of Orban's attempts to try and quiet the war on his own terms instead of coinciding with Ukraine, the EU and NATO, and I changed it and the focus of the articles since I see how using "peace missions" in the title is misrepresentative of the actual nature of the visits to someone without the context of the full wikipedia article.

I also made sure to emphasize in the main paragraph Orbán's unauthorization in cooperating with Ukraine or EU nations in planning the meetings and their notability in using the EU's rotating presidency to speak on behalf of the EU against their values and positions towards Russia's invasion of Ukraine and China's partnership.

Noble Attempt (talk) 18:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Noble Attempt I nominated the article for deletion as I believe that the subject does not meet our WP:N bar, being strongly influenced by WP:RECENTISM. Even though these visits are currently trumpeted in some media, I doubt they will be at all spoken about once the new EU presidency starts in 5.5 months (not even mentioning WP:LASTING notability). Please don't get offended - it wasn't personal and it wasn't a dislike for Orbán or his ideas. Simply, his two short trips don't make for a dedicated encyclopaedia article IMO. — kashmīrī ^TALK 22:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're all good, I sincerely didn't mean to convey offense in my message so I apologize if I came across that way by typing out my edits very directly like that. Thank you for explaining in detail the article's notability issues, I will be sure to keep them in mind for future articles I type up. I saw the notability discussion and I will reply to that in the future, possibly with potential articles that be merged with if discussion reaches that consensus, and I don't mind if the article get deleted if that is what is best based on the Wikipedia guidelines. Noble Attempt (talk) 23:36, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize, I meant to respond to the initial message. Noble Attempt (talk) 18:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK. And what about this poll? It is surely out of Orban jurisdiction. This shows a highly increased ratio of european population in accord to the following statement: Europe should push Ukraine toward negociating a peace deal with Russia. Poll: Europeans increasingly pessimistic about Ukraine war Aakmaros (talk) 18:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's nothing to do with the article subject here. — kashmīrī ^TALK 21:20, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

??? what does this have to do with anything Zlad! (talk) 08:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Categorisation

I started a talk section at Category:Lists of diplomatic visits by heads of state since Orban is a head of government, not a head of state.

This relates indirectly to the closed AfD: there are Wikipedians who consider the visits of heads of state (and government) to be notable enough to be worth documenting encyclopedically - so anyone with enthusiasm could consider creating a wider article on all of Orban's international official visits. I'm not really convinced of how notable those articles are, but WP:NOTPAPER. Boud (talk) 13:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]