Talk:2007–08 Pittsburgh Penguins season

2007–08 Pittsburgh Penguins season has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 18, 2008	Peer review	Reviewed
September 24, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed
November 8, 2008	Featured article candidate	Not promoted

Current status: Good article

Pittsburgh Mid‑importance

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Pennsylvania Low‑importance

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Ice Hockey

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Attendance

If anybody checks this, is there anywhere you know that can provide attendance numbers? I dont like assuming the attendance is 17132 every game. I see some posts that give numbers occasionally that I would really like to know where the numbers come from. I usually leave them blank when I edit the game log. Grsz11 (talk) 01:04, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Go to this address and click either on Game summary or Event summary after the game you are looking for, and sometime after the game ends you will see the attendance posted. --Pparazorback (talk) 01:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would assume that the box score in the paper everyday would provide the attendance, though I am not certain. Blackngold29 (talk) 01:08, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate captains

The Penguins alternate captains (since Recchi was traded) are Sergei Gonchar and Gary Roberts. Ryan Malone, merely wears an A whenever Captain Sidney Crosby or Gonchar, Roberts are injured & out of the lineup. It's the same situation with Mike Fisher in Ottawa, Darcy Tucker in Toronto, Mattias Ohlund in Vancouver & Andre Markov in Montreal. GoodDay (talk) 17:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Should he be added with a note saying he's an alternate A? It seems like overkill to me, but whoever keeps adding his name would seem to disagree. Black ngold29 19:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pictures

I think the article would benefit from a few more pictures being added. There are quite a few of them over at the WikiCommons, which are avalible to use. Just try to keep them from this year's team. I thought maybe a Marian Hossa or even Ty Conklin? We could also get a good picture of the AMP Energy NHL Winter Classic. Thanks! Black ngold29 15:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Game 3 update needed

:) I'd do it, but I don't want to step on any toes here. Enigma ^message 07:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Black ngold29 17:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers. Enigma ^message 17:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Colby and Talbot Commercial

I added a screenshot (properly released by the owner, of course) from the hilarious Colby/Talbot/Gonchar/Malkin A&L Motors commercial. I'd like to expand this and have a bit of text about about the commercial. Here are some sources for it, if anyone wants to take a crack at it: Colby's interview with WDVE, Commercial mentioned in Atlanta paper, WPXI coverage, Canadian coverage.--TheZachMorrisExperience (talk) 05:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was kind of skeptical at first, but you have a good variety of sources. Just be careful about POV, since the caption states that the commercial was "popular" (which should be sourced or removed). Black ngold29 05:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Peer review needs to be closed

The peer review needs to be closed if this article is to be nominated for GAN. Gary King (talk) 19:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2007–08 Pittsburgh Penguins season/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Yay, a hockey related review. I'll go over the article in a few hours, so hang tight! Also, if you think I'm inducing any POV, let me know, because I have a COI because I support the Leafs. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 20:00, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Close the peer review, first. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 20:02, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment

Don't super script the th in 40th in the lead per the MOS

Done. Grsz ^talk 23:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Date linking is deprecated, see Wikipedia:MOS#Dates

I don't know what that means. Grsz ^talk 23:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. (It is policy not to link dates anymore).--TheZachMorrisExperience (talk) 01:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I see. Thank goodness, I hated those. Grsz ^talk 01:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty sure the cite in the 2nd paragraph of the lead isn't needed, as its pretty well-known to NHL-fans

True, and done. Grsz ^talk 23:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The choice of color in the log at 2007–08_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season#Playoff_log and 2007–08 Pittsburgh Penguins season#Schedule and results is kinda distracting

Team colors, seems okay to me. Grsz ^talk 23:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mind trying yellow background with black text? Thanks. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 14:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All of the Penguins related items are in that style. We would have to change everything (templates, multiple seasons, etc.) to match. Is it really that vital? Black ngold29 14:56, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not that vital, so just skip this comment. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 00:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The regular season began on 5 October 2007, against the Carolina Hurricanes and concluded on 6 April 2008, against the rival Philadelphia Flyers. Seems rather choppy with the commas. Suggest rewording.

Some done. Grsz ^talk 23:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the 2007–08_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season#Personnel section, I don't understand what it means by Injured reserve

Long-term injury. Should it be something else? Grsz ^talk 23:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to "Injured reserve list." Maybe link it to Injured reserve list, but that would look weird.--TheZachMorrisExperience (talk) 01:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's all for now. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 23:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As long as Malone & Sydor are listed as alternate captains? this article failes GA. Why? Malone & Sydor only served as interim-alternate captains (during the injury/abscense from lineup of Crosby, Roberts and/or Gonchar. GoodDay (talk) 00:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where does it state that they were alternate captains? In the infobox, it states that Gonchar and Roberts were, while Recchi served from Oct-Dec. And that alone would not be a reason to fail, it would be easy to correct, and I'm not willing to fail an article that could be fixed in one minute. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 00:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Roberts missed 44 games, compared to 38 he played in the regular season. When he wasn't playing, Malone or Sydor wore the A. I don't know how that doesn't make them alternate captains, and even still, is there a standard stated somewhere on this? Grsz ^talk 00:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly my point - When Roberts wasn't playing GoodDay (talk) 00:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that if they wore the "A," even once, that makes them alternate captains. Maybe make a footnote explaining the situation.--TheZachMorrisExperience (talk) 01:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Found another superscript at 2007–08_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season#Fan_support. See 31st consecutive sellout.

Gone.--TheZachMorrisExperience (talk) 01:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 00:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Crosby became the first Penguins captain since the retirement of Mario Lemieux in January 2006, following a season of four alternate captains in Crosby, Mark Recchi, Sergei Gonchar, and John LeClair. Needs a rewrite after the first comma. In particular, the alternate captains in Crosby... part.
- Rewrote Black ngold29 02:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mind merging the following with another paragraph? The Penguins also extended head coach Michel Therrien's contract through the 2008-09 season.
- Merged Black ngold29 02:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In the infobox, Average attendance:17,077 (100.7%) Huh?
- Standing room only for every game, I believe that's mentioned in the prose. It's correct. Black ngold29 01:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
complied a point streak of ten games Isn't complied compiled?
- Fixed Black ngold29 02:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Following the injury to Crosby, a make-shift line composed of Evgeni Malkin, Petr Sykora, and Ryan Malone dubbed the “Steel City Line” helped sustain the Penguins standing, scoring 50 goals during the 28-game span, and helping the Penguins clinch a playoff spot for the second year in a row. Do you really need the and?
- Removed Black ngold29 02:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with the Alt captain issue, but IMO, we should list every Alt cap' and put it in a footnote indicating such.

Put a footnote to a prose explanation rather than a source. Let me know what you think. Grsz ^talk 02:52, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

With an attendance of 71,417, the Winter Classic on January 1, 2008 at Ralph Wilson Stadium easily surpassed the NHL single-game record set on November 22, 2003 State that it broke the attendance record
- Added and removed "easily" per NPOV. Black ngold29 02:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
...when the Edmonton Oilers hosted the Montreal Canadiens at Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton, before 57,167 fans in the Heritage Classic. no comma needed IMO
- Removed, though it could read "...in Edmonton, before 57,167 fans, in the.." Black ngold29 02:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 01:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

...looked to improve upon their progress in the 2006–07 season, after being eliminated No comma needed
- Removed Black ngold29 14:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In prose, it mentions 17,089 as the average, however, in the infobox, 17,077 is mentioned as the number
- Fixed. 17,089 is cited in the prose Black ngold29 14:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Penguins are only two years removed from their last-place Eastern Conference finish in 2006. Two years removed sounds a bit awkward.
- Reworded and flipped for better paragraph flow Black ngold29 14:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Image caption of Image:Evgeni Malkin2.jpg Evgeni Malkin finished second in total points with 106, in his second year in the league. needs to indicate in league or in the team
- Clarified. In the league. Black ngold29 14:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also see my comment about the game log colours above.

Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 14:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Penguins earned the second seed in the Eastern Conference. Should be earlier in the paragraph.

Moved to first sentence. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2007-08_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season#Eastern Conference Quarterfinals see 7th-seed.

Done. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Evgeni Malkin scored his first career playoff goal, Marc-Andre Fleury recorded his first career playoff shutout, Petr Sykora added a goal, and Gary Roberts scored twice. Fragmented sentence IMO.

Added "In the game". Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hossa added his second goal, on an empty net, to seal the victory. No comma needed.

Done. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

...but Joffrey Lupul's second goal, on an empty net, sealed the win for the Flyers. No commas needed again

Done. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

and the Prince of Wales Trophy, by a final score of 6-0. No comma needed. This is getting pretty common.

Done. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It was the third Stanley Cup Finals appearance for the Penguins franchise, the first since back-to-back victories during the 1991 Stanley Cup Finals and the 1992 Stanley Cup Finals. What do you mean by back-to-back victories?

Changed to "consecutive". Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In Game One at Detroit's Joe Louis Arena, the Red Wings opened scoring in the 2nd period with a goal from Mikael Samuelsson, before finishing with three goals in the 3rd period, from Samuelsson, Dan Cleary, and Henrik Zetterberg. State that the Penguins lost in a shutout.(which I find hilarious)

Not needed. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

...Maxime Talbot scored for the Penguins, who had pulled goalie Marc-Andre Fleury. Kinda sounds like that Talbot pulled Fleury. Try a reword.

Clarified. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The game logs are inconsistent. For the regular season log, it uses direct links, but for the Playoff Log, it uses inline cites. Choose one.

Well, the regular season links externally to a recap. The playoffs are also a recap, but they are cited elsewhere in the article as well, like in the playoff prose. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the playoff log, the log for the Eastern Conference Semifinals doesn't link to Fleury like the way that the other playoff round logs do.

Done. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How come in the goaltender tables, the playoff table uses a comma for minutes while the regular season doesn't? Also, does combined have to be capitalized?

Removed commas, and COMBINED → Combined, TOTAL → Total. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The caption for Image:Marián Hossa - Pittsburgh.jpg, Marian Hossa was acquired by the Penguins in a last minute trade. seems rather ambiguous. State just minutes before the trade deadline

Done. Grsz ^talk 01:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Source check is tommorow...brace yourself. =) Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 00:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most cites need a date of publication and an accessdate as the source could change. They are also inconsistent as some use a bracket for the date and some don't. Normally I'd fail this under this, but I feel that a 5-minute fix should fail an article

Done. Grsz ^talk 01:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cite 11 doesn't confirm the game played, nor the points achieved

Brought in a new source (Malkin's bio at Penguins site) that says he scored X points after the injury. Grsz ^X 16:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where in Cite 20 does it specifically say that the rally was actually held?

Changed to this article. Grsz ^talk 03:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

State that the Toronto Maple Leafs don't suck

Ok. Grsz ^X 16:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do not state the above

Awwwww. Grsz ^X 16:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Following debris removal and site preparation, groundbreaking for construction will begin in the summer.

Will begin→began. Grsz ^talk 01:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the 3rd table in #Milestones and awards, combine the cell for the NHL YoungStar award.

Done. Grsz ^talk 03:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cite 83 states a 403 error. Replace the cite.

Done. Grsz ^talk 03:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done! Also replied to the tables comment, so be sure to check on that. Now placing on hold, you have 7 days to address this(and I mean that I won't be checking the article until 4 days from now, so you can look for other stuff you want to clarify) and judge. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 23:25, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lead is too short. Try including info about Player stats, Milestones and awards, Transactions, and Draft picks in a paragraph. Also, clarify With a 12-2 record, the team eliminated the Senators, the New York Rangers, and the Flyers, on their way to the 2008 Stanley Cup Final, the franchise's first in 16 years. by stating in the playoffs.
- Expanded and clarified. Black ngold29 21:53, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The alternate captain entry for Ryan Malone (Dec--) looks kind off weird with the double dashes.
- I replaced all the dashes with en dashes. I don't know what the purpose of the double dash was, unless there's a specific reason I think it looks OK now. Black ngold29 21:53, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Team leaders section in the infobox doesn't mention whether regular season or playoffs.
- It's regular season, it's a standard template so I don't really know how to clarify that. All figures are repeated in the stats section, so one could look there for further explination. Black ngold29 21:36, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Once these things are addressed, I can and will pass it. Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 21:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

This article is a great overview of the season. It is written in a non-neutral way, and is very comprehensive. However, it may need a thorough copyedit if it is to be FA. However, it is grammatically correct mostly, so its ok.

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:
Some places may need clarifying, but not any major problems

B. MoS compliance:
Complies with all listed MoS guidelines listed at WIAGA.
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:
This article uses the Cite ... family, and has a References section

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
It has sources for all assertions, quotes, and material that can be challenged.

C. No original research:
No original research as all assertions, etc. are sourced.
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:
Very long, but overkill.

B. Focused:
A bit long, but I'm not sure that any sections could be forked to its own article without any notability questions.
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
NO NPOV seen by reviewer.
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
There has been no edit wars in the last 100 edits, and it is not likely to be updated.
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
All images checked. I'm assuming that the OTRS image is OK, as I have no access.

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
All images have suitable captions, and are placed in relevant locations.
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
Well done with this article. It meets all GA criteria, but needs a bit more work if you want FA for this. Otherwise, an excellent job! Pie is good ^{(Apple is the best)} 22:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate captains discussion I rewrote the bit in the prose like so: Following the release of Recchi in early December and injuries to Crosby and Roberts (Recchi's replacement), Sergei Gonchar remained the Penguins only active alternate captain. The team assigned two new alternate captains with Ryan Malone and Darryl Sydor serving during the injuries.^[1]' It 1) Explains that Roberts himself was a replacement, and 2) that Malone and Sydor served in the absence of Crosby and Roberts. Grsz ^talk 01:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It looks fine to me. (But then again, I thought it was fine earlier).--TheZachMorrisExperience (talk) 03:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I tweaked it, Gonchar was an alternate captain. GoodDay (talk) 12:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See also the discussion at WT:HOCKEY: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey#2007-08 Pittsburgh Penguins season article a GA??

FAC?

What happen to the FAC, why did it get deleted? —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 22:25, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Grsz mistakenly nom'd two FACs at the same time. I don't know why this one was choosen to be closed first, as it is far closer to FAC than the other. Regardless, I thought the FAC on this was rushed a little, but with a peer review and some further clean-up, it's within reach. If anyone wants to help, I'll fix what I can to get an FA. Black ngold29 22:41, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My biggest beef with FAC is if nobody reviews it fails. I offered the other withdrawn, but this one was instead. Sorry about the screw up. Grsz ¹¹ ^→Review! 23:08, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you want to get it up to FA? We can get a peer review and I'll go through it. If not, we can always give it a few weeks, there's some other stuff I wanted to work on, and come back to it; taking some longer breaks proved effective on PNC Park. Black ngold29 23:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was just wondering since I never seen an FAC deleted before, wouldn't it be more appropriate to suspend it until the other FAC you submitted was done? —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 23:32, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I just noticed that it wasn't deleted, only moved to an archive. —Krm500 ^{(Communicate!)} 23:34, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After seeing this on FAC, one thing that came to mind that would help the article would be to add some pre-season predictions from TSN etc. about how well the Penguins were expected to do. Teemu08 (talk) 17:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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^ Sager, Joe (February 14, 2008). "Malone, Sydor Emerge As Leaders".

[1] Sager, Joe (February 14, 2008). "Malone, Sydor Emerge As Leaders".

[1]