Help talk:IPA/Armenian

[oj]

What about adding the diphthong 'oj'? Words like խոյ [χoj], գոյ [goj] etc. ARE pronounced with 'oj'. Dum-Tragut's work gives this diphthong as well.--Mahtrqerin (talk) 11:44, 29 July 2012 (UTC)Mahtrqerin

I'll have to take a look. I edited the Armenian language article to reflect Dum-Tragut's vowel quality for o, but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't upsetting anything before I changed this article and transcriptions of Armenian across Wikipedia. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]} 14:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I've edited the table to add the additional diphthong. Dum-Tragut doesn't have [ij] and [ji] but she also says that these are technically not diphthongs. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]} 15:21, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for editing. About the diphthong [ij] now. In fact it is present in Western Armenian only, not the Eastern, and is a very rare one. As to [ji], which is absent in Dum-Tragut's work, but really is present in both Armenian languages, I'm sure this is just a mistake, one of many in the book. But the source of the mistakes is not usually the author's fault, but the Armenian grammars she used and trusted in, which ARE full of mistakes. Otherwise Dum-Tragut's book is the best and it's incomparable to any other grammar book I've ever seen.

The diphthongs [ʏ] and [œ], as well as [ij], can only be found in Western Armenian, though several Eastern Armenian dialects (not the literary standard) do have them too. So, is it possible to edit the chart so that it can distinguish the Eastern and Western phonological inventories (as the consonants do)?--Mahtrqerin (talk) 14:25, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Separating Eastern and Western is a good idea. Should we do it like at WP:IPA for Portuguese and Galician? It would require a dramatic overhaul. We might also want to tweak {{IPA-hy}} to allow for parsing between Eastern and Western in our transcriptions. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]} 15:02, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I think the way Portuguese and Galician are presented is perfect, but if it's difficult to do it, first the Armenian chart needs at least a few changes, especially in the vowels column. They are: 1. Western Armenian has [ʏ], [œ] and [ij] while Eastern doesn't. 2. Some of the examples are wrong (e.g. իւղ isn't pronounced with the diphthong but rather the j + u sequence as is the case with the English 'you' while գիւղ contains that diphthong in Eastern Armenian). 3. The letter ղ didn't sound as [ʁ] in Classical Armenian; it was either dark [l] or something of that kind. 4. The letter ւ represented [w] in Classical but it is now [v] in Eastern and Western. So, I think the first step to get rid of two mistakes is to remove the C symbol (that stands for Classical Armenian) in the consonants column. --Mahtrqerin (talk) 15:53, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

We could have a third column for Classical Armenian. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]} 15:59, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, we could. But it's so difficult for me to edit something because I've been here for less than a week. So perhaps I could point to the mistakes and someone else could edit it. Well, I can also provide with the appropriate examples, but making all these columns is Chinese grammar for me now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahtrqerin (talk • contribs) 16:09, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

[IPA sound of letter ճ]

Can someone please explain me how come both Armenian letter "ճ" and English diphthong "ch" make the same sound (tʃ)? Any sane person with normal hearing will notice that these two letters are pronounced completely differently. In fact, "չ" is much closer (if not the same) to "ch". Seriously, are you guys listening with your eyes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Balaenopter (talk • contribs) 15:39, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress

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midvowels

Wikipedia uses ɛ,ɔ for the է օ vowels. That's the IPA values used in Vaux 1998. But more recent phonetic work uses /e, o/. It may be wise to change the Wikipedia code too to reflect the current state-of-the-art on Armenian phonetics. Hovsepig (talk) 21:01, 1 December 2023 (UTC)