Category talk:Catholic denominations

Scope definition

As at 10 Jan 2017, the scope is defined as "For the purpose of this category, the term Catholic denominations includes any groups of churches within the Catholic tradition– not just those bodies in communion with the Church of Rome". I'm fine with this. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:29, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

On grounds of which sourced article content, please? Chicbyaccident (talk) 13:41, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Your question does not follow.

The category tree is not a source of content, but is just a system finding the article(s) that you want to find. The "scope definition" is a way letting editors know which articles to find (and put) in this category. As long as it keeps the same set of articles with-in, we can talk about a better "scope definition" or even a better category name, but it is not ment to be the one real definition for a "Catholic denomination". tahc ^chat 15:05, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, you can't invent whatever in the category tree. It has to be encyclopedically relevant. Logically veriably so in article content. That wouldn't be too much to ask for, would it? Chicbyaccident (talk) 18:41, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

The categories have to be useful and meet all of the Wikipedia policies on categories. Are you saying that you consider Category:Catholic denominations to be not useful? tahc ^chat 19:14, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that's it, I'm not sure. Category:Catholic particular churches sui iuris already exists. So I'm just wondering what is the reasoning behind this category, please? Chicbyaccident (talk) 20:22, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Category:Catholic particular churches sui iuris (like many categories) is are just for those bodies that are in communion with the Church of Rome. Category:Catholic denominations are not just those bodies that are in communion with the Church of Rome, in this way they are quite different.

In addition, Category:Catholic particular churches sui iuris seems to only be Eastern Catholic churches, so I would wonder why there is both Category:Catholic particular churches sui iuris and Category:Eastern Catholic churches. tahc ^chat 21:35, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Latin Church is there as well, so it makes sense. However, who decides the circumference of this very category that we're talking about? You personally? Chicbyaccident (talk) 21:52, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

The circumference of Category:Catholic particular churches sui iuris or of Category:Catholic denominations? tahc ^chat 17:11, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Category:Catholic denominations? Chicbyaccident (talk) 20:26, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

The scope of Category:Catholic denominations has been the same for a long time.

What else would the scope be? The Catholic Church does not really us the term denominations for the different parts of itself. tahc ^chat 14:37, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

True. And there is no article on Catholic denomination, why this category seem a bit vague, bordering WO:OR. Template introduced until we see outcome of category discussion. Chicbyaccident (talk) 14:39, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Catholicity?

I don't consider this move really obvious. I would like to ask for more arguments for it. Chicbyaccident (talk) 20:46, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Follow-up on categories for discussion

We've had two categories for discussion on this category: 1) Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_October_24#Category:Catholic_denominations (3 support, nominator included, 1 oppose - resulted in "no consensus"), and 2) Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_February_20#Category:Catholic_denominations (1 support, nominator included, 2 oppose - resulted in "keep"). Does this really offer a clear consensus on this category for deviation from how Catholic and Catholic denomination redirect to Catholic Church? Pinging users previously involved: BrownHairedGirl, tahc, Marcocapelle Laurel Lodged, gidonb Peterkingiron. PPEMES (talk) 11:34, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

@PPEMES, sadly most of Wikipedia's articles and categories in this area have been badly distorted by the long-term POV-pushing of supporters of the universal and unique claims of the Roman Catholic Church.

People are entitled to take whatever view they like of those claims, but the problem on Wikipedia is that the supporters of this worldview have pushed Wikipedia to adopt terminology which doesn't accommodate the reality of a more diverse set of religious strands.

And I have wasted more than enough of my time engaging with these POV-pushers. I don't intend to get stuck in again. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:20, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

I interpretate you would be disinterested in "wasting time" unpacking your "reality of a more diverse set of religious strands". Your accusations, however, I guess do explain how you as an administrator could count 3 support and 1 oppose as "no consensus", doesn't it? PPEMES (talk) 12:36, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

• The fact that there are no articles for Catholic denomination or Catholic denominations tells me that there should not be a category for them. Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:39, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

@Laurel Lodged: While I agree in prinicple and would at least expect some arguments for deviation from that principle, this is evidently begging people in vain to "waste their time" explaining things that they enforce - with or without the understanding and/or compliance of us less knowledgeable underlings. PPEMES (talk) 11:11, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

From the discussion above, it appears that this seems to come up for discussion every year. Why? Manannan67 (talk) 20:46, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

@Manannan67: Doesn't the result of the above ones indicate the instability of this category? PPEMES (talk) 20:59, 28 July 2019 (UTC)