Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2011-11-14

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The following is an automatically-generated compilation of all talk pages for the Signpost issue dated 2011-11-14. For general Signpost discussion, see Wikipedia talk:Signpost.

Featured content: Writing featured content: Advice from Sturmvogel 66; Sports, sports, sports! (1,864 bytes · 💬)

• I just thought that it was worth mentioning that FPC is not a dying project, and remains active (it's certainly ahead of featured sounds and featured portals, and probably featured topics). It's just that a lot of nominations get shot down pretty quickly. 14 images have been nominated in the last week, and I suspect at least five will pass. That said, more reviewers and nominators couldn't hurt! J Milburn (talk) 22:58, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
  • That is exactly how Featured Sounds was before its demise, however, you are correct. FP will not die due to the abundance of free images on Commons, whereas free sound files are in the few by comparison. The project died due to disinterest and lack of activity, I hope that FP won't go down that road. —James ^{(Talk • Contribs)} • 4:41pm • 06:41, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Last week was dry in general. ResMar 18:50, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

• I hope nobody read the blurb about FP and assumed I meant the project was dying. During my perusing of the page, I noticed that perhaps 4 people vote regularly. As an image needs 5 votes minimum to pass, I figured having interested reviewers would be useful. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:37, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

In the news: Fundraising vs ads redux, WikiConference India nigh, a world lit up with articles (8,987 bytes · 💬)

Map of Wikipedia articles

• Neat map, though I'm wondering, what's the large swath of lights east of Japan? --Golbez (talk) 22:41, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Even considering articles on all the islands, geographic features, and WWII battle sites in the central and north Pacific, it still seems like too many lights for that area. 143.46.96.73 (talk) 23:20, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
    • They don't seem to show up on Google Maps' Wikipedia layer, interestingly. At 150-160 E, it shouldn't be articles mistagged from 150-160W - there's not much there, either - so perhaps a data-processing glitch? Shimgray | talk | 19:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
      • They are caused by a few hundred incorrectly coded Australia articles. Rich Farmbrough, 01:32, 28 November 2011 (UTC).
        
• The map reflects population density patterns. However some low population density areas in the US are better covered with Wiki articles than some high population densityareas in China. --Elekhh (talk) 23:11, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Ads

• Oh yes, I'm all in for an opt-in for ads! Let the Stephen Chapmans get their ads they sought so after – targeted to the article content! 'Cause what are you reading Wikipedia articles when ads can tell you what you need and what you are looking for! Nageh (talk) 23:01, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
• Ads are an awful idea, imo. And the author of that piece seems to be yet another reader misinterpreting "free" to mean "no cost" as opposed to free as in freedom. The English language is driving me nuts. --Yair rand (talk) 01:45, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
• Advertisements fundamentally compromise our integrity and our neutrality. If Wikipedia starts up with ads, hundreds of core editors will leave in disgust, myself included. Sven Manguard Wha? 02:55, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
  • I agree. The world is swimming in advertising. It cheapens society and is quintessentially manipulative. Let WMF projects remain one of the few islands of commercial-free content. Tony (talk) 06:27, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Agree with Sven, and would leave as well. --Elekhh (talk) 12:58, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
• The subscription model is a valid way to raise revenue and that is exactly what Wikipedia has. Its just its subscriptions are discretionary meaning there are no admin overheads to run it. With subscriptions we work to please the subscribers. With ads we work to please the advertisers who represent "Big Money". Lumos3 (talk) 12:19, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
  • I agree, nothing is free and the one who has money will pay for Wikipedia when the fundraiser run, our experience also show that lots of people are more than happy to pay for it, so no need to change model. Ulflarsen (talk) 00:29, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
• The Chapman article is a standard space-filler article that the tech press run every fundraiser and should be treated as such, i.e. ignored - David Gerard (talk) 15:03, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Editor's note The Signpost's coverage of the Chapman article is a standard space-filler we run in the absence of any fundraiser-related story in a slow news week and should probably be treated as such. ;) Skomorokh 15:12, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Does that mean if more people were to write and submit "personal opinion pieces", there would be less need for standard space-fillers? (Possible conflict of interest disclosure: yes, I am working on an opinion piece, myself ;) -- llywrch (talk) 19:48, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
      • Llywrch, absolutely. We've been short on opinion essays for the past two weeks and are always hungry for more. Drop a note at Opinion desk if you've got something, and tell your friends. Regards, Skomorokh 14:30, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

• If advertisements are allowed, they should be limited to passive text or images. That is, the ads should not move or do anything unless the user clicks on the advertisement. Otherwise, my old computer would be overwhelmed. JRSpriggs (talk) 20:19, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
• Some of us donate the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars in time. If ads were added we would leave and the money raised would not be enough to rehire us. Ads would be a bad idea and a loss of "total value" for the site. The business world has such a narrow view on economics having no idea how to assign value to much of human existence and therefore ignores it completely.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:51, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

• There is definitely a demographic that believes their Econ major, MBA, or business writer or management career provides them with a perspective on every aspect of the world superior to any other. These types are uninterested in the concept that increased advertising and consumerism is not always, in every possible situation, a net gain for society. Consumption may be the engine that fuels the global economy, and it may bring many benefits, but to put it in ways these types can perhaps understand: we receive diminishing returns and increasing costs from consumerism (past a certain threshold). Anyone interested in an in-depth discussion of the costs of the ubiquity of advertising and consumerism (in our private lives, in our ability to make decisions) might be interested in Habermas's Theory of Communicative Action or alternatively, any of Critical Theory.

Myself, I am tired of these Maslow's hammer business enthusiasts who tell the lie that somehow ads will be more "free" than donations. Advertising has many costs that come with its benefits. They are hidden costs that must be carried by society, and unlike a donation drive, are not finite. One of those costs which makes advertisements particularly unsuited for wikipedia is that they create a conflict-of-interest that would in time reduce freedom and neutrality.--Monk of the highest order^(t) 08:57, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

• I would opt in to ads to see what it's like. The targeting might actually work here, to the point that I would want to click on an ad. Most ads I see aren't relevant enough to warrant clicking, so are just obtrusive annoyances, but I could imagine it being different here. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 19:17, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

• IMHO Wikipedia is going to include adds when the profits = contributions dry up. As long as people are willing to give their own money Jimbo can promote himself and Wikipedia as a noncommercial product. I have few doubts that he will change his mind when (and only when) the first financial losses begin to appear. Flamarande (talk) 22:41, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

• You are confusing cause and effect. Contributions dry up when Wikipedia is going to include ads, not the other way around. Nageh (talk) 23:28, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

• What sort of sad, sorry spiritually-stunted git expects to see his life enriched by advertisements? This is just pathetic. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:49, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

News and notes: ArbCom nominations open, participation grants finalized, survey results on perceptions on Wikipedia released (2,966 bytes · 💬)

• Precisely what is extraordinary about the motion by the Committee to remove Iridiscent? The motion was mandated by the provision for removal due to inactivity, in the ArbCom Policy, and we can only infer that the removal was a completely routine action. Apparently, the Signpost has resorted to dramatising the motion, which if true, frankly renders me disappointed. AGK [•] 20:59, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
  • See below. The decision of the Committee to remove one of their own for activity is AFAIK unprecedented, and thus cannot straightfacedly be termed ordinary. The timing of the action also hints strongly that it was not routine housekeeping but a move made specifically in response to the circumstances of the election; again, extraordinary. Hope this helps, Skomorokh 14:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
• Extraordinary as in not ordinary. Presumably a motion to remove an arbitrator is not an ordinary action therefore it is extraordinary. NtheP (talk) 21:21, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
• As in, "Extraordinary general meeting", I suggest, which are routinely called as a matter of procedure. - Jarry1250 ^{[Weasel? Discuss.]} 01:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks for your responses. I understand the meaning you intended to convey, but to me we can only infer that that the motion was remarkable or unusual, not specially convened. YMMV. AGK [•] 14:58, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

• Ah, I see what you mean now. I hadn't considered the secondary meaning of the term at the time; yours is a reasonable reading given the phrasing. Skomorokh 15:13, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

• Very disappointed that anybody should resort to jargon and gobbledygook. I had to look up the definition of AFAIK to find out it means "As Far As I Know." This is the sort of in-groupishness that drives away editors. Yours, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:12, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

• Do you mean Skomorokh's comment above? AFAIK is widely used on the internet. AGK [•] 14:24, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

lol –MuZemike 04:03, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject report: Having a Conference with WikiProject India (1,201 bytes · 💬)

My impression is that the WikiProject India is problematic because it is dominated by Brit admin/non-admin bullies who are naturally interested in presenting distorted view of India from an obsolete imperilistic, Brit/western supremacist POV and who keep obtaining blocks or bans on anyone who wants to stop them and who keep performing admin actions in violation of WP:INVOLVED.-MW ^ℳ 04:11, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

That's quite the serious allegation. Do you have evidence to support it? On second thoughts, this perhaps isn't the place to discuss such things, but if you really think the WikiProject is inherently biased you should bring that up on a noticeboard somewhere (or the WikiProject discussion page itself). Robofish (talk) 00:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)