Wikipedia:Peer review/Thomas Ellison/archive1

Thomas Ellison

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I've listed this article for peer review because I'm wanting feedback to eventually bring the article up to Featured Article status. I'm particularly interested in input regarding how well written and comprehensive the article is. Thomas Ellison is a notable figure from late 19th century/early 20th century New Zealand rugby union. Any feeback would be greatly appreciated, especially from editors not familiar with rugby.

Thanks, Shudde ^talk 08:10, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given that his birth date is not known with any accuracy, the {{death date and age}} template in the infobox is misleading. It should be replaced with {{death date}} and a range of ages, similar to the range of years for his birth.

Done. Thanks for that. - Shudde ^talk 12:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the lead, and again under "Early life", the article says he "was selected to play provincially", where the latter word links to the Wellington RFU. This fails WP:EGG. I would suggest it says something along the lines of "was selected to play for the Wellington provincial team".

Yeah at the moment there are not separate articles for most of the NZ provincial teams and their representative team. Auckland has split the two articles, but most of the others have not been split yet. I've altered the text as you suggested though. Hopefully it's acceptable. - Shudde ^talk 08:54, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Under "Wing-forward", you mention the All-Black's first test match in 1903. Test match (rugby union) is linked. I don't know if it is necessary to explain to the audience in this manner what a test match is, but a link to 1903 New Zealand rugby union tour of Australia would be appropriate. Also, I'm not at all fussed myself, but should the term "All Blacks" be used for this tour, when I understand it originated in 1905?

I think the link is better than an explanation. I take the view that if you played for NZ you are an All Blacks; it used to be that only teams that toured to Europe were All Blacks (i.e. the "first All Blacks", "second All Blacks" etc), but this isn't the contemporary interpretation of the name. I think it's ok as is, but am happy to change it if you think it should be altered. - Shudde ^talk 08:56, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to see more pictures. Any photos of him are likely to be out of copyright. Also, "The Art of Rugby Football" is out of copyright, and its cover would make a good illustration if you could find a photo. For example, there's a photo at NZ Museums. They claim its copyrighted, but I cannot see how such a claim is valid (I am however not a lawyer).-gadfium 08:53, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I should be able to find more of the Natives' team; however really want ones where the source identifies Ellison. Regarding "The Art of Rugby Football", I agree that an image of the cover would be good. One I have found is at [1]—do you think this would be acceptable and not have any copyright concerns? I think that certain photos of the book may be copyright (ie they may have artistic value that makes them copyrightable), however those of the cover only may not. - Shudde ^talk 12:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that a photo which adds more than a simple representation of its subject might have its own copyright, but you need an opinion from someone more knowledgable on such matters than myself. Is there a copy of the book in a library you have access to where they may allow you to photograph it yourself (sometimes, mentioning that it's for Wikipedia helps). Alternatively, just upload one of the pictures linked above to commons with a "PD-New Zealand" template in good faith (and a source for the photo, and the death date of Ellison), and let them sort it out.-gadfium 20:58, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I've thought about it some more, and I think the NZ Rugby Museum photo may be classified as a derivative work, but I'm not so sure about the Otago Daily Times photo. I'll look into where the book can be accessed and try and organise someone to get a photograph. - Shudde ^talk 05:08, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Per a request for my comment: I enjoyed reading the article and found it interesting and entertaining and kept reading right to the end; the English did not jar or disturb. Perhaps more could be made of his legal career - especially if he was the first Maori admitted to the Bar. I was intrigued that he was "eventually" buried - was there some delay - is there some macabre interest there? As fas as I can see, this is good enough to be a GA as it stands. Giano 19:44, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I expanded on the arrangements for his burial. He probably wasn't the first admitted to the Bar, but he was one of the first. I'll see what more I can find out about his professional career. Thanks for your comments! - Shudde ^talk 06:31, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, I wonder why there was a debate over burial(not that it matters), but I would like to know why he died in Porirua Lunatic Asylum. Normally TB patients were normally isolated not put into a mental home. Perhaps the asylum had an isolation clinic and he was not actually in the insane part - perhaps that needs to be explained? Giano 07:37, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think that disputes regarding burial sites are maybe more common in Maori culture than European—nothing in any of the sources I've read go into more detail. Regarding Porirua Lunatic Asylum, I'd be speculating. I'll see what else I can find out. - Shudde ^talk 08:38, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A simple google search shows TB patients in the USA being treated in mental asylums - probably the same in NZ - the rich went to Switzerland, the poor to the mad house: wicked old world. Giano 10:00, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that—maybe I'll add a footnote to explain this. - Shudde ^talk 07:46, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]