Wikipedia:Peer review/Leek Town F.C./archive1

Leek Town F.C.

A couple of weeks ago I had to drive through Leek and happened to pass the football ground, so I thought I'd stop and take a photo which could be added to the club's WP page. When I saw the feeble state of the article as it stood at the time I decided to try and expand it. I think I've done so now, so here it is at PR...... ChrisTheDude 06:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, the change is truly incredible. Hats off.

My summary on the bread and butter of what makes a good article:

Structure

The headings are consistent with those traditionally used for GA and FA football club articles. Appropriate number of images. Some sections are a little on the small side, but that is to be expected for a club of Leek's stature, for whom obtaining further information could prove difficult. Be prepared to consider merging a few sections to appease FA or GA reviewers, but I personally don't think it's necessary. Fine in my opinion, could possibly require very minor alterations during GA or FA nominations but that could be rectified at the time.

Content

No problems at all with the prose; it's excellent. Comprehensive, well written, factually accurate and sourced. However:

The squad list is not quite up to date, see www.leektown.co.uk/info/news.php

"July 15th

One out, three in as squad building continues.

Defender Kevin Brown has quit Harrison Park without kicking a ball due to difficulties travelling from Lancashire.

Darren Alexander (Hednesford), Paul Monaghan (Flixton) and John Maloney (Altrincham) have signed UniBond forms."

Is the list of notable former players really large enough to warrant a link? It's nicely done, consistent with the format used by other clubs, and understandably it is an incomplete list, but nevertheless I don't think it's a large enough category to warrant a link. Instead perhaps the players should just be listed on the main page?

Sourcing

All important and potentially contentious facts verified by a reliable source, with a wide range of sources used and an appropriate references section at the bottom. No problems at all here.

Images

All but one of the images are fine, the other one I've listed my concerns below but even that is more personal preference than something that detracts from the article. On the whole images are well positioned, although a couple of small improvements could be made:

I'm not a huge fan of the graph; it doesn't look very professional. Ideally it shouldn't overlap into the players section, should ideally have a title indicating that it represents Leek Town's performance in the National League System (as opposed to the Football League), and should probably be slightly larger as the years are difficult to read. The idea is good so I'm not suggesting it should be removed, I just don't think it's well done. My suggestions are that it could be redone (could be done in ten or fifteen minutes on Excel or similar), and/or obtain the copyright holder's permission to make minor alterations.
The gap in modern history is unattractive. My suggestion would be to move the magazine cover down to the honours section.

Overall I'm very impressed with the article. It's refreshing to see so much time and effort given to a club outside of the top two divisions. I hope this review helps and if you have any further questions feel free to contact me on my talk page. BeL1EveR 12:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing I would add is adding in national flags for former managers and current management just to 'add something'. I put the staff into a table, if you have the nationalities i will add in the national flags if you want? (Everlast1910 15:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC))

My reply

Thanks for the very kind words guys, to address a couple of points....

Contacting the creator of the graph would be easy as I created it myself, personally I don't think it looks too bad. The graph is there essentially because a number of other GA and FA football articles have them, so I thought this one might as well too. In fact when I put Gillingham F.C. and Margate F.C. up for PR I was told by other editors that the absence of such a graph was a major omission! I guess we can't please everyone.... ;-)

Personally I really dislike sticking flags into tables, and to be honest the only ones I could source would be the ones who have their own WP articles, sourcable info on the others is pretty much non-existent. I don't even have a confirmed nationality for Paul Ogden, the current boss, although I presume he's English. With only four or five of the names having flags by them I think the table would look pretty silly so I'd prefer to leave them out completely

I'll update the squad list, I hadn't noticed that news item

The link to the category of past/present (in this case mainly past!) players is consistent with other FA football articles such as Arsenal F.C. and avoids potential accusations of OR in selecting which players to mention on the club's page

As stated above, I appreciate you guys taking the time to look over the article, and thanks for your kind words and constructive criticism ChrisTheDude 20:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think now would be a good time to nominate for GA. I say GA as opposed to FA on the basis that there's nothing to prevent a nomination for FA immediately afterwards, and the GA process would help rectify any potential obstacles to achieving FA status.

Two final points. The graph was merely personal opinion; I agree it's a good idea and in one form or another is certainly worthy of inclusion. My objections were about presentation and clarity; the concept is sound and is a good addition.

Secondly I recommend seeking further opinion on the notable players issue. For my part I'm going to start a discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Non-league football, in the hope of obtaining consensus on an agreed standard. My school of thought is that a solution that's clearly required for a Premier League club isn't necessarily appropriate for a Northern Premier team, whilst at the same time accepting that having two systems could prove unworkable in certain cases (for instance AFC Wimbledon).

Once more, congratulations on a job well done, and good luck with GA and hopefully FA. BeL1EveR 19:25, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]