Wikipedia:Peer review/Bronchitis/archive1
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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed Bronchitis for peer review because I would like some feedback on how to continue to better the article. It's currently at C class and I've been adding secondary and tertiary sources for references but would like more ideas on other things the article could use.
Thanks, TylerDurden8823 (talk) 02:17, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Some comments from lesion
[edit]I think more experienced editors will be able to give more extensive advice than I. Initial impression is well referenced article and the info here is thoughtfully worded. Issues are not so much with content but layout to conform with MOS (This page should generally follow the MOS for diseases/disorders). If you are looking to get to GA status, this is also good reading Wikipedia:What the Good article criteria are not. As per the above, we are missing a few recommended sections...whilst they are not mandatory, I think this article could easily fit this better. E.g. move sections acute, chronic and protracted bacterial into a classification section. Note also these sections contain info that might be more appropriate in other sections. This will likely make some new sections which are too short, and these might need slight expansion to counter this.
- Classification
- Signs and symptoms or Characteristics
- Causes
- Pathophysiology/Mechanism
- Diagnosis
- Prevention
- Treatment
- Prognosis
- Epidemiology
- History
- Society and culture
- Research directions
- Special populations
- Other animals
Done
- The hatline "not to be confused with bronchiolitis" I have not seen before...usually they read, for the disorder of inflammation in the bronchioles, see bronchiolitis" or similar.
- Don't know how to fix this, that was there before I got to the article. If you know how to fix that, please let me know and I will try.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:38, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
Much medical terminology that might not be understood.
- Differential diagnosis could do with parenthesized lay term or wikilink in lead
- Acute and chronic could do with parenthesized lay term or wikilink
- Epithelium could do with parenthesized lay term or wikilink
- Symptomatic treatment "
- Secondary infections "
- Productive cough
- fibrotic
- lumenal
- wet cough
- would be nice to have some explanation of how the Pulmonary function tests are performed and what the volumes are?
Hope this is useful.lesion (talk) 01:32, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
- Epithelium already had a wikilink, differential diagnosis is gone, secondary infections...I can't really find a good wikilink. The infection page description for secondary infections is terrible. Luminal, fibrotic, productive cough are taken care of. Thinking about the other ones.
- Apologies re epithelium, missed that. Feel free to use what ever terminology you want, as long as there is a way for people to understand if they haven't heard it before, either with bracketed lay term or wikilink. Re secondary infection agree poor section, but maybe one day that page is better? (or maybe try Superinfection? ... possibly something slightly different) Should still wikilink a term regardless of quality of other page imo. Just a thought, enjoy developing this page. lesion (talk) 15:14, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
- Epithelium already had a wikilink, differential diagnosis is gone, secondary infections...I can't really find a good wikilink. The infection page description for secondary infections is terrible. Luminal, fibrotic, productive cough are taken care of. Thinking about the other ones.
Comments from Zad68
[edit]- Round 1
TylerDurden8823 tore this up.
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Enough for now... I'll check in later. Nice work... |
- Round 2
Lead
[edit]- "Bronchitis is a general medical term signifying an inflammation..."--how about "Bronchitis is an inflammation..."
- "the larger and medium-sized airways that carry air from the trachea into the more distal parts of the lung parenchyma" -- simplify, how about "the larger and medium-sized airways that carry air from the trachea into the lung"?
- "those who are immunocompromised, appear to be at increased risk"--how about "those who are immunocompromised, are at increased risk"
Done
- Still needs treatment
Added to it :* Done
- Diff diag... I know you're coming back to this one simplified wording.
- Sure, we can try that bronchitis is an inflammation, that was uploadvirus who wrote that and the second bullet point. Uploadvirus felt that these two things would help readability. Does it seem to hinder that cause rather than help it in your opinion? I'm not certain if it has been established if immunocompromised people are considered at "increased risk" or whether being immunocompromised is considered a risk factor since there is a subtle difference between the two but for now it's changed since appear doesn't seem to fit well. I'm going to have to scale my efforts back a bit for about a week and then I can do more with treatment, etc. I'm also not sure what you're talking about regarding differential diagnosis since it's not on there yet. We discussed trying to classify it by type or just putting the top three differentials on there.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Classification
[edit]- "Acute bronchitis is a self-limited infection of the lower respiratory tract causing inflammation of the bronchi and is characterized by an acute illness with a duration of less than three weeks, cough as the main symptom, at least one other lower respiratory tract symptom such as wheezing, sputum production, or chest pain, and cannot be better explained by another diagnosis."--long run-on sentence, split up
- I wanted to make sure everyone was clear that it was all one idea/definition but :*
Done
Prevalence
[edit]- Can you find more content
- I will soon. Been working on hunting down leads for the history section. Going to work on prevalence, pathophys, etc. soon.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
History
[edit]- Obviously. You don't need to go nuts, just like one paragraph is probably all you'd need, unless bronchitis has a long, storied, fascinating history.
Done
- If possible some more dates in here, the only one is 1808. What year did bronchodialtors become available?
Sources
[edit]- (continuing from above convo.)--You have the secondary and tertiary idea right. Tertiary is great for well-accepted background or historical info. What the lung is and how it works is well-established by now, and tertiary sources are great. You need secondary sources esp. for things like up-to-date prevalence figures, latest theories about causation and treatment, etc.
- Don't forget about "There's something sourced to "Chronic Bronchitis", Times Essentials. It really should be sourced to the underlying A.D.A.M. reference work."
Done
Wow what a huge improvement. You're very, very close to GA. The first time I read through the article I didn't really get the concept behind what the article is talking about. On this read-through, it's so much more clear. I feel like I actually learned something on this read through, great job. Zad68
19:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
- Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about the Times article. That may end up being a merged citation but I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Any suggestions for what to do about the secondary bacterial infection bit? I just linked it to the infection page which briefly discusses secondary infections but I feel like it is a bad page for those looking for a better explanation. Do you think superinfection might be better? Or is this just one of those just wikilink it moments? Thanks for the compliment, I'm trying to make it better so I'm glad to hear that it's going well. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
- Round 3
- Lead--You'll have to come back after the rest of the article is done to make sure all the new content you added is reflected in the lead--again no treatment in there yet, and there should be just a mention of history now that you have a section for it
- "Typically, acute bronchitis is characterized by an acute illness with a duration of less than three weeks, cough as the main symptom, at least one other lower respiratory tract symptom such as wheezing, sputum production, or chest pain, and cannot be better explained by another diagnosis." -- very long sentence, can you break up? Or at least fix the grammar and tighten/copyedit, consider: "Acute bronchitis is an acute illness lasting less than three weeks with coughing as the main symptom, and accompanied by at least one other lower respiratory tract symptom such as wheezing, sputum production, or chest pain." -- do you really need ", and which cannot be better explained by another diagnosis."? It sounds tautological.
The "and which cannot be better explained" bit was part of the definition from the source but I can how that might come across as redundant:* Done
- "2" and "3" should be spelled out here, see WP:MOSNUM, this is required for GA
Done
- "Protracted bacterial bronchitis is defined as a chronic productive cough, with a positive bronchoalveolar lavage, that resolves with antibiotics." - probably get rid of the commas
Done
- "supplemental oxygen"--capitalize
Done
- "Oxygen supplementation can result in decreased respiratory drive, leading to increased blood levels of carbon dioxide and subsequent respiratory acidosis."--unsourced
Done
- "Most cases of bronchitis are caused by a self-limiting viral infection and resolve themselves in a few weeks.[citation needed]"--consider: "Most cases of bronchitis are caused by a self-limiting viral infection and resolve without intervention in a few weeks.[citation needed]"
Done
- History--you don't really need that same one ref repeated every sentence if it's the only ref used, just put one at the end of the paragraph. Generally history sections have large amounts of context pulled from only one or two sources, as opposed to the medical content sections which often have lots of refs. I understand, you build up the "ref every assertion" habit in the other parts of the articles and you do it to history too, but you don't need to.
Done
- History--looks great! You found a great ref and that one paragraph is probably all you need.
- Images-- can't you find some more? Something to break up the text.
- Overall--keep it up.
Zad68
04:37, 17 January 2013 (UTC)- I'll get to work on these but I don't know how to upload images to wikipedia and I don't know how to add a picture to a wikipedia page. The last time I looked I couldn't find a free picture to use. I've been looking for a reliable source for the oxygen supplementation bit and so far have come up empty. I don't think it will be terribly difficult to find the self-limited viral infection bit and I know the epidemiology section needs to be more robust. I'll take a more detailed look at your third round in a little while and start.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 05:13, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- No excuses! Uploading images is easy, just use the image uploader tool, the one thing you need to be careful about is copyright and licensing issues, so ask about that. There's also a bunch of images already, look through what has already been uploaded. Also, look at these results: http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=images&search=cough&fulltext=Search What would be REALLY great is if you were to look through the sound files that are named like "File:The-description-of-cough-sounds-by-healthcare-professionals..." and find the ones relevant to what a bronchitis cough sounds like.
Zad68
15:37, 17 January 2013 (UTC)- That link didn't go anywhere and I haven't been able to find any public domain pictures on wikipedia that are of bronchitis related pathology. I realize a histopathology slide showing the pathological consequences of chronic or acute bronchitis would be a nice addition. Next up I think will be epidemiology stuff if I can find it. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 21:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- Weird if the link didn't work, I just tried it again and it works for me. I really want you to look through the File:The-description-of-cough-sounds-by-healthcare-professionals... files, there's something good in there I am sure.
Zad68
17:18, 18 January 2013 (UTC)- It works now. I'll try again later with that.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 20:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, so, I looked through the cough search and most of the search was irrelevant. The only thing I found were some cough sounds from a paper that made the sounds public domain but the problem is that while there were two COPD coughs which had mucus and wheeze, it is unclear to me whether they have chronic bronchitis or emphysema or both. They often coexist from what I've read. If you think a COPD cough is sufficient, we can use that. I don't know how different the cough is between a COPD patient with chronic bronchitis and a COPD patient with emphysema. It may not be different at all. Let me know what you think.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:17, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking... I was really hoping there would be something specific for this bronchitis. In my opinion it'd be worth it to try to track down some info on whether a general COPD cough sound would be useful for this article. If I were you I would ask at WT:MED. There are some actual physicians there who might be able to help. A physician might be able to tell you a COPD sound file would be useful.
- Okay, so, I looked through the cough search and most of the search was irrelevant. The only thing I found were some cough sounds from a paper that made the sounds public domain but the problem is that while there were two COPD coughs which had mucus and wheeze, it is unclear to me whether they have chronic bronchitis or emphysema or both. They often coexist from what I've read. If you think a COPD cough is sufficient, we can use that. I don't know how different the cough is between a COPD patient with chronic bronchitis and a COPD patient with emphysema. It may not be different at all. Let me know what you think.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:17, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
- It works now. I'll try again later with that.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 20:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
- Weird if the link didn't work, I just tried it again and it works for me. I really want you to look through the File:The-description-of-cough-sounds-by-healthcare-professionals... files, there's something good in there I am sure.
- That link didn't go anywhere and I haven't been able to find any public domain pictures on wikipedia that are of bronchitis related pathology. I realize a histopathology slide showing the pathological consequences of chronic or acute bronchitis would be a nice addition. Next up I think will be epidemiology stuff if I can find it. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 21:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- No excuses! Uploading images is easy, just use the image uploader tool, the one thing you need to be careful about is copyright and licensing issues, so ask about that. There's also a bunch of images already, look through what has already been uploaded. Also, look at these results: http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=images&search=cough&fulltext=Search What would be REALLY great is if you were to look through the sound files that are named like "File:The-description-of-cough-sounds-by-healthcare-professionals..." and find the ones relevant to what a bronchitis cough sounds like.
- I'll get to work on these but I don't know how to upload images to wikipedia and I don't know how to add a picture to a wikipedia page. The last time I looked I couldn't find a free picture to use. I've been looking for a reliable source for the oxygen supplementation bit and so far have come up empty. I don't think it will be terribly difficult to find the self-limited viral infection bit and I know the epidemiology section needs to be more robust. I'll take a more detailed look at your third round in a little while and start.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 05:13, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks
[edit]Thanks guys, that's plenty to work on and it'll take me a little while but I think I'll be able to incorporate your suggestions and fix the article up. There were definitely some things here that didn't come to mind right away and some policies of which I was unaware.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:35, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
- Delighted you appreciate it! You're definitely moving the article forward and it's well on its way...
Zad68
04:37, 6 January 2013 (UTC)- Okay, so, the article has changed dramatically now. I have restructured the entire article according to the guidelines set by Wikipedia: MOS of Diseases. Please have another look and continue with your feedback. I'll continue addressing the points you mentioned earlier and yes, some sections are smaller or not filled in yet as predicted earlier and I will try to address this as quickly as I can.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 18:56, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
- It is dramatically improved. Sourcing is top-notch. Your prose style has definitely improved, I find very little to pick on. Flush out the rest of the content sections and fix the lead, and nominate it for GA.
Zad68
04:36, 21 January 2013 (UTC)- Most of the prose wasn't mine haha. My prose is normally quite respectable. If I'm tired, perhaps it falters on occasion. Can you be more specific when you say flush out the rest of the content sections? I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly. Glad to hear it's basically ready for GA and just needs the lead to be fixed. Regrettably, I'm not sure I will have the time to see this to completion and I may need someone else to put the finishing touches on it since I'm getting rather busy. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:56, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
- It is dramatically improved. Sourcing is top-notch. Your prose style has definitely improved, I find very little to pick on. Flush out the rest of the content sections and fix the lead, and nominate it for GA.
- Okay, so, the article has changed dramatically now. I have restructured the entire article according to the guidelines set by Wikipedia: MOS of Diseases. Please have another look and continue with your feedback. I'll continue addressing the points you mentioned earlier and yes, some sections are smaller or not filled in yet as predicted earlier and I will try to address this as quickly as I can.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 18:56, 6 January 2013 (UTC)