Wikipedia:General sanctions/Gamergate/Requests for enforcement/Archive2
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Avono
Avono topic banned one month by User:The Wordsmith. EdJohnston (talk) 16:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Avono
Additional comments by editor filing complaintAvono linked to a "source" on the Gamergate talk page. The source in question is a opinion piece from a student newspaper that includes numerous clearly libelous statements about Zoe Quinn. I request that Avono be warned not to disseminate links to known libelous statements as "sources" for this article page. Avono is fully aware of the BLP issues involved here. Request a 24 hour topic ban. [Diff.] ReynTime (talk) 11:24, 3 December 2014 (UTC) Discussion concerning AvonoStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by AvonoThen User:Carrite [1]
should be sanctioned as-well as the user linked to material making similar accusations.
Statement by Dave Dial(DD2K)While we may allow some new editors some wiggle room concerning these accusations, Avono is well aware of Gamergate sanctions and the libelous BLP violations that have infected the articles and the various Talk pages. Avono also knows that editors have been sanctioned by topic bans and blocks for inserting the same libelous accusations that they linked to. One would also assume that the editor read the article and knows the author must not have done any real research on the issue, and stating that they are trying to show the "amount of GamerGator's not involved in the Harassment are insignificant" by linking to such an obvious BLP violation is preposterous. I'm leaving in a minute and this will be my only comment. Thanks. Dave Dial (talk) 13:08, 3 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by NorthBySouthBaranofI am in the camp that thinks a topic ban here is unnecessary, largely because Avono (thankfully) didn't actually repeat what the source claimed in talk or articlespace, but the point does need to be driven home that it is totally unacceptable to present student newspaper articles, pseudonymous blogs and web forum posts as if they're acceptable support for highly-defamatory allegations (bordering on criminal accusations) against living people. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 13:15, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by HasteurKeeping in mind WP:AGF and the fact that Avono was not given the official notification prior to the disputed diff (though they was aware of the GS because they notified another editor of the GS), I propose that this request be closed with the official delivery of the notice and let it be at that. Obviously, if Avono does this again there will be significantly less good faith as they've now been notified. Of note, the actions of others does not excuse any individual editors behavior. Each editor is responsibile for ensuring each edit they make is compliant with policy. Hasteur (talk) 13:46, 3 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by ReynTimeThis article has had repeated warnings to people about including, referencing, or citing material that violates WP:BLP and it does not appear to have sunk in. Until some action is taken, certain editors will continue to try to introduce this material and repeatedly cite "sources" that are blatantly unusable per WP:RS. Avono is aware of these issues and linked the libelous article regardless. If he is not sanctioned, then at least a statement should be made that this behavior will no longer be excused on the grounds of "I didn't know the source repeated those terrible lies." Editors need to take responsibility for not promoting BLP violations in WP in any way. Such responsibility-taking will not start to occur until there are consequences for failing to do so. ReynTime (talk) 13:56, 3 December 2014 (UTC) Addition: We now have another example of another editor, Willhesucceed, posting defamatory material about the main targets of Gamergate on the article's talk page, suggesting that the BLP-violating opinion piece he pulled the quote from be included in the article. Add this to Carrite's attempt to introduce a pseudonymous blog containing, yet again, BLP-violating material as a "source" and we have a pattern of recurring misbehavior that needs to be addressed in some fashion. Statement by DHeywardUser:ReynTime should refactor all his comments that threaten or imply that an edit was illegal. There are at least two edits where he wrote that the article in question is illegal and the source will be sued (outside of Wikipedia). He then accused Avono of bringing illegal activity to Wikipedia. That is a legal threat. Since I doubt ReynTime has standing to make either a judgement or file a case but such accusations are chilling to collaboration. I suggest a sanction that he not be allowed to mention the legality of other editors post or the legality of sources within GamerGate article talk pages as they do not add to the discourse. Refactoring BLP violation is not the same as calling them "illegal" or threatening lawsuits. --DHeyward (talk) 18:14, 3 December 2014 (UTC) Second we need to at least be reasonable with facts and exactly what is wrong with sources. It is true that Grayson and Quinn had a relationship.[5]. It is not a BLP violation to say that. It is true that Grayson has never reviewed Depression quest (ibid). It is also true that Kotaku, his employer, did review depression quest[6]. And note the new ethics line at the bottom[7][8] that was added on Oct. 31, 2014 by the Kotaku reviewer. The error on Wikipedia would be to claim Quinn exchanged the relationship for positive coverage by Nathan Grayson as we have no indication this happened. The violation is accusing Grayson of ethical misconduct (it's actually kind of insulting to claim that it's Quinn's choice of partner is the BLP violation when she has no ethical duty as Grayson does but misogynist tendencies are to blame the woman whenever sex intertwines with ethics). It's not a BLP to say she received positive reviews from journalists that she has personal relationships with (i.e. "friends" in this case). There is no indication it is quid pro quo but Kotaku and others have clearly adopted policies of disclosure and we need to be careful about redacting and dismissing information that is not, in fact, a BLP violation. --DHeyward (talk) 19:06, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
@The Wordsmith: what I am not following is the logic from the request "I request that Avono be warned not to disseminate links to known libelous statements" morphing to a 30 day topic ban. Your statement "under no circumstances should have been published by even a college paper, much less posted on Wikipedia" is arguably true if we presume that he posted it to wikipedia and that it was not a reliable source. But he didn't post anything as far as I can see, he didn't make any claims which was your first requirement for offense. He provided a link to a site on a talk page. A site I suspect is linked to in many articles. We've had links to a lot worse sites. He didn't quote or use any of the material. In fact our article highlights the exact same material in question as "Streisand effect" type items. This article[9] for example, is cited in the main GamerGate article and highlights the same accusations excepts frames them as "alleged." (as an aside, the source we use directly links to the ex-boyfriends rant - are we accountable for links within sources too?) Everyone discussing the article knows what's alleged. Is it really that the story linked by Avono and never quoted or used is so egregiously bad because the author of the external piece failed to used "alleged?" This is rather an extreme position to take about external linking when BLP has link exceptions for talk pages and this seems like wikilawyer minutae as nothing is ever said in WP voice or space. You should not need copies of external, deleted articles to determine if someone violated BLP policies unless you are validating the source. No claims on Wikipedia=No BLP violation.
--DHeyward (talk) 08:35, 7 December 2014 (UTC) In other words, if you are telling us that an article talk page statement "This link has serious allegations about about Zoe Quinn; should we summarize some pieces about Gamergaters from it?" and it used the Amhurst link is a BLP violation, I question whether you really understand BLP policy regarding WP:BLPTALK as it is a direct replication of what is explicitly allowed and recommended for such material. The fact that you actually needed the contents of the off-site link, and not Avono's own words/diffs, should have been a clue that you were using the wrong section about claims and content. --DHeyward (talk) 09:19, 7 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by MasemPer WP:BLPTALK it is not always an automatic violation to include a link to contentious material about living persons; it is the context and use of the link in the course of discussing improvements/additions to the article that must be considered, among other factors. Arguably the quality of the source link is important - a link to a blog or forum that contains such claims would never be allowed; on the other hand, if a high reputable source like the NYTimes introduced a claim, we might have to consider and discuss that. Here was a student-run university newspaper which is very much on a cusp for this specific article; including the link isn't likely going to happen, but I wouldn't not immediately call the link bad. The behavior here seems like an completely earnest attempt to present some possible information for inclusion; more specifically they mention the article for other information it included; it just also happened to include some serious BLP claims that a student-run paper cannot readily be in a position to make. Redaction of the link after quickly seeing it as a BLP issue is reasonable, and caution should definitely be given to avoid such links in the future, but I'm not seeing any action here that requires much more than a trout. --MASEM (t) 19:27, 3 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by TheRedPenOfDoomGiven Avono's recent [10] [11] efforts to imply that the allegations against living people have not been thoroughly debunked in the media (as they have been since the very first media reports), this additional lack of concern about carelessly spreading such allegations are cause for concern of a troubling pattern. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by The Devil's AdvocateOkay, I looked at an archive of the article and, suffice to say, the issue is just the oft-repeated and discredited claim about Quinn gets stated as fact a couple times. In this opinion piece it even makes the false claim that the claim originated with Gjoni, when it was merely a confabulation of suppressed Internet discussions about the Zoe post. While an opinion piece in a student newspaper is not a reliable source, it appears Avono is merely guilty of citing an unreliable source that contained libelous claims as it was clearly raised to note an unrelated point about GamerGate that was not libelous. This article was raised on the talk page rather than used as a source for content. Avono should have paid closer attention to the source being cited, but it seems this was an error in good faith.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 04:56, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Wordsmith, the very editor who filed this report and sent you that archive link has been indeffed as a disruptive SPA and on suspicion of being a sockpuppet. I see no indication that Avono has tried to re-insert the link to the talk page after it was removed or that the BLP-violating claims within the article were being repeated by Avono on the talk page. Websites may contain things we cannot include on-wiki per policy, but that does not inherently mean linking to the site violates policy if that source could be reliable for other details. Indeed there is no indication in policy that such standards are expected of editors. Your initial instinct of no sanction was the correct one. The fact that your only other evidence is a rather dubious misrepresentation of Avono making an attempt at compromise and discussion over a long-running unsettled content dispute someone else rekindled only makes this more obscene.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 08:46, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by A Quest for KnowledgeWP:BLP applies to all pages on Wikipedia; it does not apply, to the best of my knowledge, to websites other than Wikipedia. Therefore, I am concerned that an editor can be sanctioned for just posting a link to a student newspaper, in that, if there was a BLP violation, it appears to have happened off-Wiki. If editors are sanctioned for posting a link to any external website which may contain contentious material about a living person, this is a slippery slope. Indeed, how can WP:RSN and WP:BLPN possibly function? Posting such links is not only a routine activity, it's integral part of their very existance. I don't think that it is desirable, or within existing policy, to sanction editors for simply posting such links. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 13:17, 7 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning AvonoThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Torga
User blocked indefinitely for sockpuppetry. RGloucester — ☎ 17:45, 12 December 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Torga
Torga has violated his GamerGate related topic ban by participating in this AFD. I apologize if I haven't formatted this properly or if the ban violation reports go elsewhere.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:57, 12 December 2014 (UTC) Notified—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 04:00, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning TorgaStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by TorgaSeriously again? What actually defines a gamergate-controversy topic ban? What i am allowed to write about at all? I do not consider a personal page about a web-developer as gamergate-controversy and the only thing i wrote was to keep a page about a person that created a soscial media page. This is getting ridiculus. --Torga (talk) 04:25, 12 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by StrongjamThe latest CheckUser results from Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Torga are concerning. They tie Torga to Argotton (talk · contribs) and Ruylon (talk · contribs) both accounts that have edited GG related articles. — Strongjam (talk) 15:41, 12 December 2014 (UTC) As a result of the SPI above the Torga has been blocked indefinitely. This request can probably be closed. — Strongjam (talk) 16:08, 12 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by SalvidrimIndef'ed for socking, so whether a TBAN violation occurred or not is moot. AfD !votes hatted per standard procedure. I would close the request if I knew how to as there doesn't seem to be anything left to do with it. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 17:33, 12 December 2014 (UTC) Result concerning TorgaThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Cla68
Interaction ban imposed; no further action necessary. The WordsmithTalk to me 21:56, 20 December 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Cla68
Cla68 has twice made personal attacks on me by alluding to matters that the community already decided are inconsequential for the sole purpose of attacking me on this board and others. He was never formally added to WP:GS/GG until I gave the notification tonight but he has been heavily involved in the arbitration case by inserting himself right into the dispute there and has edited talk pages where the talk page version of the notice is in place, so he is well aware that these sanctions exist but he had not been formally warned of the matters. Even if this is not exactly the right place to request this, this behavior is beyond the pale of what should be acceptable. Not being formally notified of the fact that you shouldn't attack other editors in the area is no excuse for his behavior.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:45, 18 December 2014 (UTC) @Hasteur and EdJohnston: The second diff was made outside of the purview of arbcom clerks as it was on an article talk page.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC) He's still at it.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 01:32, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Discussion concerning Cla68Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Cla68Statement by DHeywardIt doesn't appear that GG sanctions apply here. Both links are outside the scope of enforcement. --DHeyward (talk) 15:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by StrongjamDo community sanctions have any effect on the arbcom pages? Seems the arbitrators would be able to police those pages. This comment does appear to be problematic to me, it's not very hard to figure out who they are referring to. Support warning Cla68. — Strongjam (talk) 15:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC) Cla68 is still at it with his edit summaries. — Strongjam (talk) 21:33, 20 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by HasteurThere is precedent that GS enforcement does not sanction over ArbCom case postings. Suggest that this enforcement request be raised over at the ArbCom clerk noticeboard/ArbCom notice board for them to resolve. Hasteur (talk) 17:56, 18 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Cla68This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Loganmac
The comment is possibly a BLP violation, but is not nearly serious enough in isolation to warrant sanctions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:22, 18 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Loganmac
Discussion concerning LoganmacStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by HipocriteLoganmac egregiously violated BLP in this edit, in which he states that "[an identifiable living person] has links to [a publication that
Loganmac has repeated his BLP violations below. Hipocrite (talk) 19:30, 18 December 2014 (UTC) Strongjam - correct, corrected. DHeyward - The accused stated that the artile in question was "tied to GamerGate." Statement by LoganmacSaying she has "links" is no wrongdoing, I'm not accusing her of anything, just that the iMore staff is close with her, just judging from her multiple apperance in their various podcasts [14] [15] In an effort to judge a source reliability, editors are often advised to look if a source could be biased. Those links will obviously not appear on reliable sources, they don't need to, I'm not accussing her of anything illegal or even important, we have to look into poteantial COIs. In any case, the COI, if it exists, is mild, as a simple disclosure could serve in the original source. I have already doubts if iMore is cited as RS on other articles, that's my biggest concern, if it is, then it could stay. If this is judged as BLP, an admin could delete the talk page commentary, this is the first time I've been accused of violating BLP and a sanction in my humble opinion is exxagerated, when my concern relates to better sourcing of an article. This is similar to when people were discussing on the GamerGate article if an article by Liana K should be put in the article given that she had a discussion with Milo Yiannoppoulous hours before, I'm not implying paid reviews or anything. Loganmac (talk) 19:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC) We're not forbidden from editing subjects related to the ArbCom, IronHolds is not understanding what I tried to say, I didn't edit the article because I thought it would bring more drama over this, it was absolutely voluntarly, all my edits have been neutral, the deletion nomination was just that a nomination, which was contested by simply deleting it, I nominated judging the previous state of the article, which was mainly edited by someone who had admitted in the talk page that he was asked to do so, and judging by his contributions, is an absolutely SPA [16], contained multiple non-free images, and was extremely long in sections with multiple non-RS, as the template says one is free to improve the article, the article was improved, now I think the article shouldn't be deleted. Loganmac (talk) 19:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
My concers seem founded since the iMore managing editor refers to her as "A friend of mine" [18] in any case this particular problem should be discussed in the talk page. And I think I'm out of the word limit by now Loganmac (talk) 20:47, 18 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by NorthBySouthBaranofThe user in question has just admitted they have no source to support their accusation, and the user should well know at this point that unsupported accusations of wrongdoing have no place in the encyclopedia. Claims of a conflict of interest in an awards process is a serious allegation and if it cannot be supported by a reliable source, it needs to be struck and the user sanctioned. Appearances on an interview podcast are in no way evidence of such a conflict, or even of so-called "links" - it is hardly surprising that a notable iOS developer would be invited to speak on a podcast devoted to iOS topics. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by StrongjamHipocrite seems to have linked to a diff of his own comment. I believe the edits he meant to link to are here and here. — Strongjam (talk) 19:39, 18 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by IronholdsLoganmac seems uniquely incapable of understanding what is and is not proper on Wikipedia. The BLP violations brought up Hipocrite are an example of this; other noted behaviour around the same content includes:
Essentially, Loganmac appears to be a POV-pusher: incredibly biased towards one side, and attempting to pay lip service to neutrality in order to gain some credibility when making highly skewed contributions that seem largely based on his personal opinion. I'd suggest sanctioning him if for no other reason than that, as this talkpage exchange suggests, he doesn't seem to have the fortitude to disengage and is going to do himself an injury if he doesn't. Ironholds (talk) 19:43, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by DHeywardFirst, "Please remember the main developer has links to iMore" is not a BLP violation. I don't even know what iMore is but I assume it gave an award? If so, it would be an accusation that iMore, not the developer, acted improperly if that is what is being described. If it's just unsourced information about iMore, don't put it in the article. But it's not a BLP violation. Unless iMore is infamous and being linked to them is somehow negative, there is no BLP issue. it's an iMore sourcing issue. Second, it's pretty lame to tag the article as gamergate related after the comment was made and then rush over here. [19] --DHeyward (talk) 20:02, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
To Summarize:
Statement by WeedwackerPer what DHeyward said in his summary, the statement by LoganMac holds some merit, and I don't understand how it's a BLP issue to raise concerns about the COI of a source. Weedwacker (talk) 00:08, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by The Devil's AdvocateThe filing complaint is really stretching BLP to the point of absurdity. As to the rest, Logan's assessment is not completely off-base. Right now the article is overwhelmingly backed by primary-sourced material and only a small amount of sourcing provided can be considered reliable. Given that there is a BLP for Wu it is not unlikely that an uninvolved editor might consider the game to not meet GNG. Unfortunately, this poor state is a consequence of a series of SPAs that appear to have been called forth by Wu on Twitter, starting with the editor who created the article, an IP user who added most of the material, and the editor who added a large number of non-free images. The two named accounts appear to be operated by members of the iOS dev community. While this does not really amount to a COI issue, articles built in this manner tend to look little different from the kind of promotional pieces often written by COI editors. Someone seeing a COI-style piece with poor sourcing may very well view it as not worthy of inclusion. I believe enough reliable sources exist to establish the game's notability independent of Wu, but Logan's position is within reason. He clearly followed deletion procedure by prodding the page rather than attempting to speedy it or going straight to AfD.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 06:34, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by MasemIt's not a explicit BLP violation, but any type of stronger statement would definitely make it one. To say, in terms of evaluating a source, that "X has ties to source Y", and using the logic that since X has appeared on a show produced by Y (which is a verified fact) that there might be a COI, that's reasonable to include to discuss for Y is a usable source or not. Mind you, there's an Insane Troll Logic-route of thinking that if that's pressed too much (such as considering any source touched by X to be a COI towards X), and a stronger claim would definitely start down the path of a BLP issue (eg "X has financial ties to source Y" without demonstratable evidence). Caution here, but no outright violation. --MASEM (t) 16:14, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning LoganmacThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Tutelary
f this is still an issue, please re-file the request. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:22, 18 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Tutelary
This is not a request for sanction enforcement, this is a request for clarification submitted by User:Tutelary, who has asked me if the article Hatred (video game) falls under her topic ban. I do not see any direct connection between GamerGate and this particular game, but I wanted to put the question before others more knowledgeable about games than I, which is pretty much everybody. Gamaliel (talk) 03:36, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Discussion concerning TutelaryStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by RyulongYes. Hatred has become a cause celebre in Gamergate due to a backlash of it being taken down from Steam's greenlight thing and then put back up again.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:41, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by StrongjamThe game has been getting lots of attention by Gamergate supporters and has been tied to Gamergate by at least one RS:
Strongjam (talk) 03:52, 19 December 2014 (UTC) On the subject of Cultural Marxism, it is a topic that is getting attention on Gamergate forums, but I think it would be a stretch to put it under the Gamergate sanctions. — Strongjam (talk) 17:37, 22 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by WeedwackerWith regards to Hatred, I'll be honest in saying that it has been the subject of criticism, boycotts, and campaigns to remove it from distribution services because of its content, and that GamerGate has fought back against these efforts and got it back up on Steam. I could only find 5 diffs of Tutelary editing on Hatred, all before the topic ban, 4 in the article space and 1 in the talk page. One appears to be nothing, two of the edits were reverting vandalism [22] [23], and one removes an image for undue weight. Her talk page edit was removing an uncivil comment. I posted these diffs only to show that it doesn't appear Tutelary has ever had any contentious editing on that article. You could apply the general sanctions, but i'm letting you know this wouldn't do much. Everyone knows the game is controversial, i'll save everyone the trouble and say that i'm sure lots of reliable sources say some terrible things about it. The developers wouldn't care how badly their game is portrayed on that article because it will sell well because it's controversial, all anyone would fight is BLP comments about the developers. I have concerns that if every videogame that gets mentioned by GamerGate supporters becomes part of the scope of sanctions the broad scope will become very bloated, as that would include games like Grand Theft Auto V, the Postal series, the Bayonetta series, Hotline Miami, SeedScape, Metal Gear Solid V, any game by Stardock, Dragon's Crown, Far Cry 4, Dragon Age: Inquisition, the Mass Effect series (though mainly 3), and arguably any game that contains violence, controversial subject matter, or receives undue attention from games media. Any game that someone can be offended by, or the games of any developer that supports or opposes GamerGate could end up under sanctions. Yes, I am advising against a slippery slope whereby a topic ban on GamerGate will be in effect a topic ban on Video Games, as GamerGate is concerned with coverage based on relationships and the censorship or sales restrictions of video games. Any video game that from here on out is the subject of criticism or boycotts because of the nature of its content could become a game that is supported by GamerGate.
Statement by NorthBySouthBaranofI think the subject is sufficiently distant (for now) to not be considered directly under the umbrella of the topic ban, but it's definitely on the borderline. I think Tutelary would be well-advised to exercise good judgment in editing the article so as for their contributions not to stray into that territory. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 04:43, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by LoganmacI'm sure if you look for it any game will fall under GamerGate, I don't think so. For example David Jaffe has gotten an interview with a slightly pro-GG site Nichegamer, I made his latest game article, would that fall under GamerGate? Nah. Would all games made by him previously fall under it too? That's nitpicky, Hatred is being celebrated by everyone that considers himself a gamer. Most people have an opinion on it. Loganmac (talk) 15:23, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by MasemI would not consider Hatred yet a topic broadly under the GG umbrella only because from what I've followed on the GG side, it is not that they have any qualms with Hatred but they are using that (specifically its removal from Greenlight and replacement a day later) and the media response as an example of issues in the VG journalism field. They have no direct reason to interact with the Hatred article here since those developing it are not connected to anyone on their "list". There are other games that are much more likely GG-problem targets but yet have been touched by GG-based editors, and unless they act like we are getting on GG, Quinn, Depression Quest, etc., I would say they aren't broadly related - yet. This could all change if GG supporters that want to try to influence WP change their tactics. --MASEM (t) 16:08, 19 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by TutelaryThanks all for your responses, I would also like to question whether Cultural marxism is under GamerGate sanctions as someone slapped the template on the talk page and I'd rather not be blocked for assuming otherwise. Tutelary (talk) 17:32, 22 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning TutelaryThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Cla68 2
Cla68 blocked and topic-banned independently of this report. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:59, 23 December 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Cla68
Earlier this morning, Kitsunedawn posted entirely-unsupported and highly-defamatory allegations of criminal wrongdoing against identifiable living people to Talk:Gamergate controversy. I removed them within two minutes and warned Kitsunedawn that their edits were unacceptable — that Wikipedia is not a host for scurrilous rumor-mongering and gossiping about highly-inflammatory claims. I also privately, via e-mail, requested a revision deletion for defamatory content. Yet before that could happen (three hours later) Cla68 restored the defamatory and unsupported allegations of serious criminal acts to the talk page, merely adding the comment, Discussion concerning Cla68Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Cla68Statement by StrongjamThis is not even close to a borderline case. The accusations were extremely serious and unsupported. There was no legitimate reason for Cla68 to restore the comments. — Strongjam (talk) 13:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC) Looks like HJ Mitchell has imposed a block and a topic ban. Most likely this request can be closed. — Strongjam (talk) 13:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Cla68This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. |
The Devil's Advocate
After a week, there is no evidence of continuing insertions of offending material, so there is nothing sanctionable here. All parties are reminded that talk page discussions must be compliant with BLP. Gamaliel (talk) 20:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning The Devil's Advocate
The Devil's Advocate is persistently reinserting into Talk:Gamergate controversy a link to a categorically-unreliable source which contains defamatory claims, private information and outright falsehoods about living people, despite being warned. There have been extensive discussions on the talk page, and based upon extensive discussions at RSN, there is a clear and unambiguous consensus that Breitbart does not uphold anything resembling journalistic standards, has a longstanding history of hoaxing, misrepresentation and falsification, and has no business being used in anything remotely connected to living people. There is, then, absolutely no reason to leave this link on the page. Yet TDA has described its removal on BLP grounds as "ridiculous" and "not remotely valid." I suggest that edit-warring to retain this unhelpful, unusable and outright-defamatory link anywhere in the encyclopedia is inappropriate.
Discussion concerning The Devil's AdvocateStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by The Devil's AdvocateBreitbart is certainly a contentious source, but there is constant debate about whether to use it on here (indeed, there is one debate going on right now) because many editors consider it reliable and it is generally seen as reliable as a source of opinion. Redacting a link to it on the talk page claiming it as a BLP violation is just patently absurd. Baranof's claim that it contains false allegations is incorrect. Nothing contained within that piece is demonstrably false. It is definitely a partisan piece that makes a few assumptions about the motivations or character of a living individual, but we already have plenty of that kind of material in the article already. It is not a BLP violation to link to that article on the talk page. An additional problem here is that Baranof explained why he believed Breitbart was not acceptable by citing the Wikipedia article on Breitbart and minutes later Baranof was heavily slanting material on that very article, misrepresenting the sources in the process.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 09:01, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
On this point, Gamaliel, I really am going to have insist that you are WP:INVOLVED given your very strong views regarding Breitbart.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:08, 21 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by RyulongThis is the only article by Amanda Marcotte in use on Gamergate controversy. Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend is unnamed in the article in question and The Devil's Advocate is not clear as to what "vile and demonstrably false claims" it contains about him. TDA is yet again abusing policy and falsely claiming violations of policy to get his way.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 10:30, 21 December 2014 (UTC) In a tangent, it seems that one article is in the references twice.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 10:49, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by LoganmacI really think this discussion is more apt for the reliable source noticeboard, I see that Breitbart isn't accepted but often this leads me to believe it's because they're right wing, while I would bash the site anywhere else that isn't Wikipedia since I'm leftist, in a place where we're supposed to be neutral is really telling of the editors. The scandals listed on the Breitbart articles are well cited innacuracies, but we're acting here as if well reputable sources like The Guardian are never wrong, every outlet will put out falsehoods. In my opinion Breitbart should hold for the opinion of its authors, in a due manner, but when you got sources like BoingBoing and BuzzFeed, or Gawker for that matter, being accepted at times by the same editors who constantly edit the GamerGate article, it's often impossible to not see a bias. Banning TDA for this is ridiculous, one could even argue NorthBySouth is injecting his own bias into the Breitbart article as he has with other articles he sees as even mildly defending GamerGate [26] Loganmac (talk) 15:58, 21 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by MasemJust as a quick comment: if there is a Breitbart link about GamerGate, it is likely been written by Milo, who is a central figure of the GG situation (in that he is primarily the only really well established person even if working for an often unreliable source that has spoken in a positive manner towards supporting GG. Mind you, Milo does resort to some questionable journalistic aspects. But my point is here that if we are talking about an opinion piece written by a figure directly involved in a situation, even if that opinion piece comes from a source that we normally consider unreliable, and perhaps may include some statements that border on BLP, that does not invalidate any discussion of that source on the talk if it is reasonable to include the non-BLP-violating claims in the article, and that of course necessitates linking to the article in question. On the other hand, if we are talking a Breitbart piece by someone that has no connection to the events but tosses up BLP issues, yeah, that's probably not a good thing to be including. One has to remember that BLP/BLPTALK is to prevent WP or its editors from making unsubstantiated claims about living persons, but does not prevent discussion of inclusion of possible sources where BLP claims may be made among other more appropriate content, as long as the discussion or goal of the discussion is not about attempting to repeat any unsubstantiated claims within WP. --MASEM (t) 17:36, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by StrongjamThe article is far worse then the article that Avono received a month long topic ban for. TDA re-inserted the link multiple times after BLP concerns were raised and was not unaware of Brietbart's reliability issues, even themself noting issues with Breitbart. Far more then just a warning is warranted. — Strongjam (talk) 20:31, 21 December 2014 (UTC) @Super Goku V: The diff shows TDA was aware of the specific reliability concerns other editors have with Brietbart, even if he disagreed with consensus. — Strongjam (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by Super Goku VAs a question, does it matter when NorthBySouthBaranof first made a reference to the discussion over Breitbart? From what I could tell, NBSB was originally making the claim to retract the article based on what reputation they believed it to have with a reference to our article on it. However, unless I am mistaken, NBSB never referenced any discussion at all on Breitbart until this request was made. If policy states, To Strongjam: To quote the rest of your diff, "(...) You could say that about pretty much every major news outlet. In-text attribution is more than sufficient to cover for that." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Super Goku V (talk • contribs)
@Collect: This is the diff you are citing, correct? --Super Goku V (talk) 07:50, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by CollectWhere an admin is WP:INVOLVED on any article specifically regarding the use of Breitbart, such an admin should so note and not place comments as an "uninvolved administrator." ("changed visibility of a revision on page America (2014 film)" admin action) multiple edits on that film (actions as editor), and voicing strong opposition to use of Breitbart as an editor on the article talk page ("This is exactly the opposite of what happened. The SPA who is the chief proponent of including Brietbart has spent hundreds of edits arguing about it in practically every noticeboard on Wikipedia. Gamaliel (talk) 17:50, 23 December 2014 (UTC)") Where a editor with a pronounced animus posts on this page, they ought to do so as an ordinary comment, and not as an "uninvolved administrator" Collect (talk) 22:33, 23 December 2014 (UTC) @SG - one of more than a hundred examples where the one admin makes his case that he loathes Breitbart - he also hatted a discussion in which he had participated as an editor at NPOV/N on 6 August etc. The use of "uninvolved" at this point is outré, alas. And his apparent statement that he will use his admin mop to enforce his personal opinion is disquieting. Collect (talk) 12:16, 24 December 2014 (UTC) @SG They are all findable quite readily - but the case at hand is not about him, nor a place to present "evidence" about third parties, so I stuck to the issue of whether a person qualifies as "uninvolved" which he clearly does not. Thus only his words (unless he denies them, of course) are relevant here. Collect (talk) 13:24, 25 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by uninvolved A Quest for KnowledgeHi, I'm one of the numerous volunteers at the Reliable Sources and the Biographies of Living People noticeboards. My understanding is that WP:BLP applies to all of Wikipedia - article-space as well as talk pages, the Noticeboards, the Reference Desk, the Help Desk, as well as non-article pages, and their talk pages. But it does not apply to pages off-site to Wikipedia.
Admins of these sanctions are authorized to carry out the will of the community; but no more, and no less. They are NOT authorized to invent novel interpretations of WP:BLP. Specifically, there is no policy which states that BLP applies to off-Wikipidia sites. I suggest that anyone who disagrees with the existing BLP policy is entitled to that opinion, but the correct course of action is to start an RfC to have BLP changed. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:31, 24 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom
Statement by DHeywardBreitbart is fine as source depending on context. Reliable sources are known to have oversights and errors. Breitbart is no different. ArbCom is reviewing all conduct including commenting admins and users. There is no reason to act prior to the arbCom decision and process Doing so would be strikingly provocative ans a usurpation of authority. Gamaliel's dislike of Breitbart is easily discovered in his editing history and his view as an uninvolved admin should be discounted. --DHeyward (talk) 07:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning The Devil's AdvocateThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Ksolway
Ksolway has not edited for several days. Should they return to the same conduct, I recommend a hand-written, neutrally worded caution to inform them of the expected standards of behaviour. I would be happy to write it myself if somebody notifies me of their return. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:16, 2 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ksolway
Ksolway is an editor who has an established account but has not edited in nearly a year and has been edit warring at Gamergate controversy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) over rewording the lede into one that is not as harsh on the Gamergaters. He was notified of the sanctions (as per above), warned about edit warring, and requested to join a discussion about his proposed changes but has not yet edited the article's talk page in a 24 hour period and in fact restored his version despite all of the attempts to get him to communicate. It is clear (to me) that Ksolway is one of the several problematic editors who have had dormant accounts for incredibly long stretches of time and has returned to Wikipedia to push an agenda.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 06:42, 26 December 2014 (UTC) Ksolway, you only posted to the talk page less than an hour ago and you're proclaiming you're going to revert again to a version that is not accepted by anyone there.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:00, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Ksolway edited the talk page once more to demand a rewrite based on his preferred sources. It is becoming more obvious he has an axe to grind rather than a good faith intent to improve Wikipedia.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 12:24, 28 December 2014 (UTC) Discussion concerning KsolwayStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by KsolwayEvery single statement in this article has been written by those who are vehemently anti-Gamergate. This is like having the Wikipedia article on Christianity written by hardcore militant atheists. I added an accurate, unbiased, fair description of the Gamergate controversy, but I am not being allowed to add even a single word. My contributions to the talk page have been ignored. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ksolway (talk • contribs) Statement by StrongjamPage is fully protected again. No action is probably required to avoid disruption. @Ksolway: should be reminded to discuss controversial edits on the talk pages, and I've left a reminder for them about the proper use of minor edits. — Strongjam (talk) 14:41, 26 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom re KsolwayPer Ksolway's statement, its clear evidence that they are WP:NOTHERE to improve the encyclopedia, that they are here to be white knight saving poor gamergaters by pushing a view that is not supported at all by the sources , and that their WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality towards the subject is going to be detrimental to all of their edits on the subject, whether or not they can currently actively disrupt the Gamergate controversy article page. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:01, 26 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by Tony SidawayI'd considered asking an uninvolved admin to have a friendly word with this editor, as several messages have been left on his talk page all in vain. I would emphasise that the issue here was the editor's continued failure to engage in ongoing discussion over his challenged lede edit. --TS 10:00, 27 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by DheywardNo Diffs for edit warring were provided. No policy violations or 3RR reports. This is excessive request for no evidence. The history of the article is rife with edit warring including by established editors. For what it's worth, all his changes were not bad. For example, it is a generally true statement that harassment is reported by modern feminists that have spoken out about gamergate, not just "women" in general. There are many women gamers including women that are executives in large video game corporations that simply are not involved. The opening section is a very simplistic view of what is various political viewpoints including radical feminists, like TFYC (also sometimes called "trans exclusive radical feminists"), and libertarian feminists like Christina Hoff Sommers that refute modern feminist thought of victimization. All of these are covered in the reliable sources as to how each different group has been harassed. Fringe GamerGate elements have harassed modern feminists that have spoken out against gamergate. Libertarian and radical feminists have been harassed by different groups. In addition, the controversy started when the Gjoni blog post outlined connections between a modern feminist and gaming journalists. Encapsulating that level of detail (or simply removing the incorrect and broader statements that put various living people in a negative light) should not be cause for sanction and current page protection makes the complaint moot as disruption by both warriors have stopped has stopped. --DHeyward (talk) 03:31, 27 December 2014 (UTC) Ryulong all parties of interest have identified with various feminist affiliations long before GamerGate. There isn't a No true feminist test for identification. Yes, TFYC are feminists and yes, Sommers is a feminist. All have different viewpoints and all are feminist in nature. Please don't denigrate other women and feminists because their view of feminism is different from the one you have. --DHeyward (talk) 04:16, 27 December 2014 (UTC) Ryulong as far as I have seen, the only labeling of "anti-feminist" is by those extremists ideologically opposed to sub-factions of feminists. All variations are feminists in mainstream sources with different premises of what feminism is about. Sommers, Sarkheesian, Wu, Quinn and TFYC are all feminists that quibble over what feminist means according to their particular dogma. This is supported widely in reliable sources and it is not Wikipedia's place to discredit them. --DHeyward (talk) 05:21, 27 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by RetartistThis user dosent seem to be WP:NOTHERE but seems not understanding of policy, recommend trout and low time (2-3 days) topic ban/block for edit warring and a mentor/lecture to teach them about wikipedia Retartist (talk) 03:34, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by usernameResult concerning KsolwayThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. |
TrekMaster
Those were their only two edits for over seven years and they haven't edited since. Should they return and subsequently misconduct themselves, a block or topic ban may be in order. In that event, a neutral notification of their return would be welcome on my talk page. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:22, 2 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning TrekMaster
TrekMaster last edited Wikipedia in 2007. His first edit in 7 years is to go straight to the Gamergate talk page and cry bias and accuse editors and admins of impartiality and collusion ([29]). He was notified of the sanctions and then made the diff above where he accuses another editor of being implicit by linking to a screenshot posted by "Logan_Mac" on Reddit. TrekMaster has violated the assumption of good faith for the sole purpose of advocating for Gamergate.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning TrekMasterStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by TrekMasterStatement by WeedwackerI'm going to agree with you here that this editors contributions do not appear to be helpful. It appears he has used his 2 edits to deliver a message of displeasure with wikipedia and editors here, but he made the mistake of doing it in the wrong places and with insufficient evidence. Also this statement in your request: "TrekMaster has violated the assumption of good faith for the sole purpose of advocating for Gamergate" is odd because nothing in his edits suggested he was advocating for anything other than deleting the article and that editors' neutrality has been called into question, which is a factual statement, you can see it on ArbCom. The first of the two edits, while obviously being mostly things that can be subjective views of the article, is not breaking any rules. He's not accusing anyone of anything in that edit, simply airing his frustrations and stating that the neutrality of editors and admins has been called into question. In that edit, he is not the one accusing anyone of anything. The second edit however, does certainly contain accusations with weak evidence that doesn't really prove much of anything. I'd support a warning and directing the editor to guidelines for talk pages. Since this is only one edit containing weak accusations, i'd say a limited topic ban should only be enforced if this continues. Also, a link to imgur, why do you need to mention at all that it was also posted on another website by a "Logan_Mac"? This also seems like an attemped WP:OUTING as well as irrelevant information. Weedwacker (talk) 11:37, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning TrekMasterThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. |
YellowSandals
YellowSandals is cautioned against making personally directed comments on article talk pages. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:38, 2 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning YellowSandals
YellowSandals' editing history on Wikipedia solely exists on the Gamergate topic pages. In this reported edit, he accuses another editor of acting in bad faith. YellowSandals has not once edited any article on Wikipedia other than the Gamergate one. It is obvious he is not here to build an encyclopedia but wiki-litigate over article content.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC) Discussion concerning YellowSandalsStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by YellowSandalsTo be honest, seeing Ryulong and RedPen requesting sanctions against me just makes me feel tired to my bones of the article and this entire website. The editing on the page does appear factional to me, and discussion doesn't feel productive. I've tried bargains, compromises, trying to understand their points of view to argue from other angles - I've used my words and seen others use their words towards absolutely no avail. When I made an account here, I didn't expect that bloody-mindedness and passive-aggression were key factors to being involved in the site. If this is what Wikipedia is about, then tap me out. I don't think I was making much of a difference in any case. YellowSandals (talk) 21:00, 30 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom re yellow sandlesThe incident above is just the latest example of BATTLEGROUND behavior and approach to editing:
just a sampling. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning YellowSandalsThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. |
Loganmac
Loganmac is cautioned against personally directed comments; Ryulong is prohibited from discussing off-wiki accounts on Wikipedia. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:12, 2 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Loganmac
In the reported edit, Loganmac makes an egregious personal attack on another editor, and has argued that it was on content and not the contributor when it was contested.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC) Loganmac's statements regarding the message I left on his talk page are inconsequential, as I simply remark on something I had discovered had been said about me off-site. Loganmac's behavior has been beyond the pale since he returned to editing Wikipedia, which is only exacerbated by off-site commentary which may or may not be attributed to someone on Wikipedia.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:01, 28 December 2014 (UTC) "Also that account might not be mine" wasn't really absolving yourself of ownership when previously explicitly accused of owning such an account, but I make no such statements here. I merely note that there is questionable behavior regarding Wikipedia happening offsite which may or may not be relevant.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 08:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning LoganmacStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by LoganmacThe comment was deleted and I chose not to re-add it. TheRedPenOfDoom was trying to insert a known falsehood reported on media by John Bain himself on The David Pakman Show here [30], and mentioned several times by him like here [31] and on his podcast. For admins that might not know, RedPen was arguing that GamerGate didn't care about the Shadow of Mordor scandal in which a PR company paid YouTubers to give positive reviews for their game. Bain said on an interview on the David Pakman show that he broke the story, and since he's a GamerGate supporter, it's wrong to say that "GamerGate" didn't care", he then mentioned the GamerGate subreddit /r/KotakuInAction had several threads about it, this is all sourced. Thus I called the writing in the suggestion tendetious because it didn't mention that the PR move was targeting YouTubers and streamers, not journalists, which again, sourced, is what GamerGate is targeting, video game journalism. All that comment does is argue about the neutrality of the SUGGESTED edit, see "biased SUGGESTION by TheRedPenOfDoom". Everything was about the actual idea being put forward for discussion, not the person, in any case I saw one person thinking it was a personal attack, who deleted it, and I chose to not readd it and moved on. All I was doing is judge an editor's neutrality based on their actual actions on this project. Also looking at the above reports being made by Ryulong I think he's approaching this with a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality and looks like he's trying to out me [32][33] [34] [35] while calling me not a normal person. Also this is pretty stupid but his notification was lacking, I had logged a couple of minutes before and saw his notification, he didn't mention he was reporting me and I thought he was requesting comment so I ignored it [36]. And I think him or TheRedPenOfDoom should have come to my talk page to solve this like TS if they had a problem instead of trying to ban me right away when I've never even been warned since the 7 years I'm here. Loganmac (talk) 06:15, 28 December 2014 (UTC) In this diff [37] Ryulong says my behaviour has been "pale" since returning when I've never been blocked and I think I got like 2 ANIs/Requests like these in the last 4 years, then he argues that somehow some off-site behaviour that he doesn't cite "exarberated" this? I'm sorry but what? What does "which is only exacerbated by off-site commentary which may or may not be attributed to someone on Wikipedia" even mean? This I think is further evidence of him trying to out me right here in front of the General Sanctions board. Ryulong now tries associating me with harassment, this is grounds for WP:BOOMERANG 101. [38] [39] and Ignorance of the law does not imply innocence Loganmac (talk) 07:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC) Ryulong argues that he somehow "hasn't made the link" yet which is wrong, seeing as here he makes the association himself [40] thus he has accused me of harassment on absolutely no grounds, and I understand to an outside admin this looks like boring internet drama, and I'm here to defend myself, but I have said everything I think I have to say in my first paragraph, but this guy's behaviour is just incredible Loganmac (talk) 12:34, 28 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by WeedwackerLooking at the diffs that Loganmac cited of Ryulong's edits to his own comments taunting Loganmac about a supposed link to reddit don't really look that much different to me than the "personal attacks" that resulted in the interaction ban of Ryulong and Cla68. Worse still, this request is full of attempted WP:OUTING. "Personal information includes legal name, date of birth, identification numbers, home or workplace address, job title and work organisation, telephone number, email address, other contact information (including any other accounts on any other web sites), or photograph whether any such information is accurate or not." From the diff Ryulong linked ""Also that account might not be mine", Loganmac did what the policy states to do; "If you see an editor post personal information about another person, do not confirm or deny the accuracy of the information." Weedwacker (talk) 11:02, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning LoganmacThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. |
TheRedPenOfDoom
Unhatting should be brought here first; hatting likely to be contested should be brought here first; hattings that are contested should be brought here for review. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:28, 18 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning TheRedPenOfDoom
TheRedPenOfDoom has repeatedly used archive and collapse templates in a manner contrary to the guidance of WP:TPO, which states, "these templates should not be used by involved parties to end a discussion over the objections of other editors."
TRPOD has been notified that this behavior is disruptive, unwelcome, and contrary to WP:TPO, and has been unresponsive to these concerns. Discussion concerning TheRedPenOfDoomStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by TheRedPenOfDoomWP:IAR if there is one thing that is not disruptive and is an improvement to the encyclopedia, it is a quick end to discussions that will lead nowhere on a talk page that has accumulated Statement by Tony SidawayPlease include me in this sanction request. I probably use hatting more than RedPen does. In my opinion the only reason we ever get any actual discussion done is that we swiftly and aggressively identify and close down attempts to bog it down in accusations that belong in dispute resolution, attempts to revive long dead discussions, references to off-site hi-jinks, etc. In fact, I think I hatted three or four talk page sections in the past 24 hours. Perhaps the guideline is at fault. --TS 22:29, 28 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by Rhoark
TRPOD should be commended for defending WP policy against SPAs over an extended period of time. Such an experience, however, could threaten anyone's ability to maintain perspective. There is a difference between a discussion going nowhere and a discussion TRPOD doesn't want to have. If anything results from this, I would hope that it be that TRPOD pulls back from the notion of being such an avatar of WP policy that rules no longer apply. Rhoark (talk) 03:42, 29 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by Thargor OrlandoThere is far too much hatting period going on at the talk page, and the issue is one across the project, not just at this article. It's worse at this article as it's being used more to shut down discussion certain parties dislike rather than putting out fires. Not sure what's actionable here, but let's not let anyone pretend that preventative ending of discussions people don't like is at all helpful to the process. Thargor Orlando (talk) 23:04, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Statement by MasemI had some time ago asked here about if there was going to be a protocol for closing threads and the uninvolved admins basically said that involved editors can close threads, reflecting that if an editor feels a thread can be reopened, that is also an option per hatting guidance. Edit warring over the hatting of course is a problem, but that hasn't happened. Basically, TRPoD or any other involved editor is free to hat a discussion, but that hatting can be undone if felt there was more to be discussion. Of course, keeping in mind that a new editor rehashing some aspect that has previously be given an established consensus shouldn't be reopening hatted discussions that rehash that again. --MASEM (t) 02:17, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
( to note, my initial request can be found here Wikipedia:General sanctions/Gamergate/Requests for enforcement/Archive1#In regards to involved editors closing/hatting discussions and followup with an uninvolved here User talk:Masem#Your post at WP:GGE. ) --MASEM (t) 21:52, 29 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by starship.paintI roughly recall some of TPRoD's hatting summaries to be too heavy-handed or too snide or too authoritative. Hatting is already rather insulting for editors attempting to discuss in good faith, and aggressive hatting summaries will only exacerbate the issue. This can easily be seen as censorship by newer editors. Hopefully TPRoD can tone down and be nicer. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:53, 29 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by LoganmacI always found hatting pretty unnecessary unless it's something off-topic that everyone would agree on. There's also ways to hat, being rude isn't appreciated, like mentioned above TRPoD comes out as authorative and kinda OWNny on the talk page. I think I've closed discussions like twice and one of these was reopened, I remember hatting NorthBySouthBaranof when he started venting on the talk page about being doxxed by 8chan out of nowhere, of course his frustration is understandable, but it really was out of place for the talk page, that's the kind of stuff one should close imo. WP:GOODFAITH discussion should be kept. And having your discussion closed for new people is kinda BITEy since the editor will probably be intimidated and probably won't even know if he can/should reopen the discussion. TRPoD's closing comments are too often jokes and snarks that come out as really unprofessional and uncivil, also most of the times TRPoD closes discussions that he simply doesn't like, as Orlando said, meaning that it's strange that he'd close comments critical of GamerGate. Loganmac (talk) 11:18, 29 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by DHeywardHatting has and is being abused by established editors to silence any viewpoint that differs. TS is correct that the one-side view gets more work done when collaboration is shut down. The guideline is not incorrect and is spot on as to why TRPOD, TS and other regular editors shouldn't be doing it. --DHeyward (talk) 19:21, 29 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by RetartistThe issue i have is that TRPoD's closing comments are uncivil and he mainly closes threads he doesn't like. Retartist (talk) 22:22, 29 December 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning TheRedPenOfDoomThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
@Thargor Orlando: Please don't interpret my response as dismissing your concerns. I just don't see logistically how you could possibly have a coherent talk page in a contentious topic area like this one if you couldn't hat anything without outside intervention. And outside intervention is becoming hard to come by. Sanction requests are going ignored. I closed one here that was stale for a week, I opined against a sanction, and I still got the guy who avoided a sanction complaining about the fact that I closed the discussion to ArbCom! Nobody wants to touch this issue with a ten foot pole if they are going to get treated like that. So expecting outside parties to mediate hatting is not realistic. I suggest we try it the way Masem outlined and see what happens. Gamaliel (talk) 16:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC) I endorse Gamaliel's proposed solution—that anyone can hat, but anyone can un-hat if they feel there is a discussion to be had about article content, and editors wishing to re-hat should bring the matter here. Hatting, used properly, is a useful device for dealing with off-topic or inappropriate comments, of which this talk page attracts plenty. I would, though, caution TRPoD not to use hatting to make snarky, condescending, or otherwise unhelpful comments, as these are only likely to inflame matters. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:42, 2 January 2015 (UTC) |
DD2K
Inactionable here; deferred to WP:ANI#User_DD2K_calls_people_.228chan_trolls.22_in_bad_faith_and_might_have_outed_an_admin. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:53, 2 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning DD2K
In the reported edit, DD2K accuses me of being an "8chan troll" and reverts my comment letting him know of a possible violation of WP:OUTING by him done here [55] in which he attributes a comment made on reddit to OverlordQ (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and somehow knows he's "active on 8chan", implying of a brigade encouragement regarding the deletion vote for the article Cultural Marxism. I see this might look slightly broad to GamerGate but since admin Black Kite recused himself of the closing of said case because he participated in the GamerGate ArbCom, I've put this here instead of ANI. In my opinion, this user attributes bad faith on both me and user OverlordQ. Looking at his editing history he often accuses people of being sent from Stormfront, "/pol/" and other sites in a WP:BITE-esque behaviour. I had no intention of reporting this and was just at first letting him know so he could fix his behaviour. He has also reverted my notification here [56] in seconds and I know users are free to clean their user pages but reverting is less civil than simply deleting. Loganmac (talk) 06:15, 1 January 2015 (UTC) Discussion concerning DD2KStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by DD2KStatement by TheRedPenOfDoomThe discussion here [57] may be useful in determining whether or not outing has occurred. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:53, 1 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by StrongjamThis is the wrong place for this request. WP:ANI is not under the GG sanctions and it does not appear that DD2K has been properly notified of the existence of the GG sanctions. Suggest this be closed and moved to WP:ANI instead if the two editors cannot work it out on their talk pages. — Strongjam (talk) 16:38, 1 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by WeedwackerI'm also inclined to agree that this is not the correct board. Although the ANI where this took place concerned a topic that has been argued at times of being under the scope of gamergate, it is not under the sanctions. I also find it hard to believe, but not implausible, that DD2K was never given the formal notification of sanctions when the editor has participated in the ArbCom, ANI cases involving editors actions in the topic area, and the arbcom case request. Bring this to ANI and i'll have a better statement to add. Weedwacker (talk) 22:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning DD2KThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Bramble window
Bramble window blocked indefinitely. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Bramble window
I would like to request that this user be topic-banned from articles or discussion relating to Anita Sarkeesian. The user's very first edit declared their intention to "fix the badly broken Sarkeesian articles" and by "fix," they meant "depict negatively." All of the user's contributions relating to Sarkeesian have been to suggest the inclusion of criticism or attacks against Sarkeesian from self-published and other unreliable sources, and has stated that not including more attacks on Sarkeesian is comparable to Holocaust denial. The user has no substantive edits outside of Gamergate-related topics and disappears for long stretches, only to reappear in order to criticize Sarkeesian. The user recently reappeared after two weeks of inactivity to disruptively unhat a discussion whose own initiator had closed it. I submit that existing for virtually no other purpose than to negatively depict a living person is an improper use of a single-purpose account, that it is unhealthy for the encyclopedia to host an editor self-admittedly here to "fix" articles about living people, and that this editor should be encouraged to pursue other interests. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:58, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Discussion concerning Bramble windowStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Bramble windowStatement by TheRedPenOfDoomGiven the user's belief that there are ""professional victims", a ban from all BLPs would likely be in order. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:55, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Statement by MasemWhile I do worry about someone that comes out to make a statement that they knowingly want to counter biases they believe exist due to and know they are tied to WP processes, it's about behavior and there's nothing here to clearly say they are here to be disruptive - the only disruption being the re-opening of the hat (though per the previous decision here, DonQ. should not have re-closed it unilaterately but come here for advice). The editor raises valid points that are not immediately signs of BLP issues (asking if WP should including information on a group that is critical of a person is not directly a BLP violation), but clearly the editor should be cautioned from heading down a battleground mentality. They have primarily only edited talk pages, so this is not disruptive to raise questions. --MASEM (t) 03:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Statement by DHeywardAre the only examples from talk pages? It seems that by "fix" they mean "discuss." Topic banning for merely disagreeing doesn't appear productive nor do any edits appear to be BLP violations in and of themselves. There are legitimate criticism from notable topic experts that have observed opportunistic behavior and it's not at all disruptive to discuss that and the sources of criticism. --DHeyward (talk) 05:41, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs)I haven't seen Bramble window around lately, having little time to browse the broader topic and related BLP articles. But Bramble window has pinged my radar, so to speak, due to their occasionally highly inflammatory mode of engagement on talk pages and their failure to assume good faith in disagreements (which are frequent, given their published views). I tried to engage them in some detail on the subject of their war-like behaviour about a month ago. Seeing that Bramble window appeared to have limited experience and knowledge of Wikipedia culture and policies, I took care to avoid an officious or "bitey" tone, and leavened criticism with positive feedback. The response was rather hostile at first, then became rather surreal. It's a problem for all of us in this particularly delicate area when a hostile editor dismisses good faith discussion of their conduct on their user talk page as "concern trolling." 16:24, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Thargor OrlandoThis is effectively a tone complaint, as Bramble Window does not appear to have any edits to the article space. As discussion is the way we reach conclusions in this project, there's no reason to sanction. If it's that his language is harsh, we have a lot of people to line up in front of this user. Thargor Orlando (talk) 17:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Bramble windowThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Hatting / Unhatting
Material (mostly) rehatted, users admonished and trouted. Gamaliel (talk) 04:26, 15 January 2015 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Hatting / Unhatting
Per the general Admin consensus Wikipedia:General_sanctions/Gamergate/Requests_for_enforcement/Archive2#Result_concerning_TheRedPenOfDoom , is the unhatting of this content [58] likely to result in productive discussion resulting in an improvement to the encyclopedia? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 00:47, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Discussion concerning Hatting / UnhattingStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Hatting / UnhattingStatement by AndyTheGrumpSuggest closing this as the ridiculous waste of time it clearly is. Suggest RPoD uses the time saved to look up 'metaphor' in a dictionary.AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:54, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Starke HathawayI post here only to acknowledge this request has been brought, and to point this out as yet another example of TRPoD's chronically uncivil and BITEy behavior. In addition to disagreeing that the hatted content was "bickering" or a "diversion," I thought it was obnoxious for Tony Sidaway to hat my question to TRPoD but leave his response unhatted. Starke Hathaway (talk) 01:28, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Tony SidawayIt's my fault. I saw what looked like an ugly situation in the making. The incident being discussed is well understood from reliable sources but has often been interpreted otherwise within the Gamergate context. There are also mild though substantive BLP implications in the edit being discussed: whether or not someone seriously advocated bullying. The parties here appeared in my judgement to be bringing the topic to the talk page rather than discussing the article. Sometimes I misjudge; anyone is free to undo such a hatting. --TS 02:28, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Hatting / UnhattingThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Hatting an offtopic or unproductive discussion is an appropriate step to take. As previously discussed on this page, the proper procedure to hat the discussion and if this hatting proves controversial, to unhat and bring the discussion here. If this procedure is a "ridiculous waste of time", then complaining about it is an even more ridiculous waste of time. @Starke hathaway: if you have a problem with the behavior of another editor, please open a new request for enforcement here and provide evidence as per the appropriate procedure. I am reinstating the hatting while leaving the specific comment Starke Hathaway mentioned out of the hat. Starke Hathaway and User:TheRedPenOfDoom are sternly reminded to be civil in their dealings with and comments towards other editors. User:AndyTheGrump is mildly trouted. Good day. Gamaliel (talk) 04:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC) |