Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Bryan Adams discography/archive3

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:05, 6 October 2010 [1].

Bryan Adams discography

Nominator(s): --TIAYN (talk) 14:01, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I stumbled across some Bryan Adams article this week, when i saw how bad shape--TIAYN (talk) 15:42, 21 September 2010 (UTC) their were in, i wasn't able to leave them alone. So i've done some work here and there. If this nomination is successful, i'll nominate his singles discography and videography lists to FL to. This is my second FL candidate, my first was List of leaders of the Soviet Union. Thanks for your time. --TIAYN (talk) 14:01, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment—no dab links, no dead external links. Ucucha 14:03, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:16, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Comments - looks good, just a few problems to deal with:

(Done) But it wasn't until Cuts Like a Knife Adams got his breakthrough. Seems to have an informal tone and is slightly POV. Maybe Cuts Like a Knife was Adams' first internationally successful work.
The entire lead needs a copy-edit, especially the addition of a few commas.

(Working): That may take some time because i need to find some help first. --TIAYN (talk) 16:05, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Done) Per MOS:DISCOG, a maximum of ten chart listings are recommended
(Done) Is there any point in having the four charts in the 'Soundtracks' section where no soundtrack charted?
(Done) The Hung Medien references (ie citations 10–18) are credited as being published by the chart companies; this is not true. For example, the New Zealand ref should be {{cite web|url=http://www.charts.org.nz/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Bryan%20Adams |title=Bryan Adams |publisher=Hung Medien. charts.org.nz |accessdate=today}}

Adabow (talk · contribs) 09:04, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose I see no reason why this, Bryan Adams singles discography and Bryan Adams videography are different articles. See the excellent FL David Bowie discography for an artist who has released more albums and singles and videos than Bryan Adams, yet has only one discography article. 114.143.169.4 (talk) 15:59, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

LOL..So you oppose becasue of layout?? or because there split???.... is there any real reason you oppose besides your personal preferences.. like references, invalid content, grammar, etc... Perhaps you should make your decision on content and not just style...there are many styles out there.Moxy (talk) 03:50, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with the statement made above. --TIAYN (talk) 15:00, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I thinks it's okay to break Adams' disography into two articles, although it could just as well be placed in one. Perhaps a poll could be taken and develop a "rule of thumb" to go by on future discographies (i.e. an artist like Elvis Presley probably should have two). As for the intro to this one: "In the beginning of the 2000s, Room Service became Adams first album since ..." — Room Service is listed as a 2004 release; does anyone really consider this the "beginning of the 2000s"? Jimknut (talk) 01:30, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Done): Something else that needs fixing (other than the grammer)? --TIAYN (talk) 16:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

(Done) "five compilation albums (one awaiting release)" is that five inclusive or exclusive of the one awaiting release?
(Done) " In 1978 Adams signed a recording contract with A&M Records. After the success ..." merge the first mini-sentence with the following.
(Done) "at number sixty-nine on" no real reason not to say "number 69" is there?
(Done) "and was not certified" then why mention it? Why not leave it until he did get a certified release, and then link "certified" to something appropriate about musical sales certification.
(Done) "da. But it wasn't until " per MOS, avoid contractions -> "it was not until"
(Done) "Adams' got his first internationally" yuck, "got" is horrible.
(Done) Who are CRIA and RIAA? You don't link, expand or explain.
(Done) "sold 8 million copies " -> eight million.
(Done) "hit singles such as "Run to You"" no need for "such as" here.
(Done) "which contained the theme song for the 1991 film Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves." can't believe you don't link that song here.
(Done) " would go on to sell" why not just "went on to sell"?
(Done) "the charts in nine countries six-time platinum and five-time platinum in Canada and the United States respectively" poorly phrased, needs rephrasing, at the very least a comma after countries.
(Done) "title, 18 til I Die. 18 til I Die was" instant repeat of album name reads poorly.
(Done) "The album managed to sell over 5 million copies " - reads poorly again, and 5->five. Suggest a copyedit from native English speaker.
(Done) "released his eight studio " ->eighth
(Done) What's "IFPI Europe."?
(Done) "and would eventually sell over two "-> "and sold over two..."

I've fixed this the best way i could; I'll try finding a native speaker who will be willing to help me. --TIAYN (talk) 08:06, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No more. There's a lot to do here, and as I said, this needs a careful view from a native English speaker to reorganise the emphasis of a lot of clauses, check grammar, spelling etc. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:38, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Looks good! Can an IP even be counted in this vote? I think this is only for registered users so disregard him completely.--PeterGriffin • Talk 17:46, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose,

-What is the reason why the certification column in wikitable of albums is divided in two. being separated by regions?. Should be on a single meaning that certifications are global, and therefore there is no reason to separate ... for example see: Kelly Rowland discography, Moreover, most of discographies is so.

To not make a huge gap between the writing in the title sections and its colums... (may be a bad explanation).. But its staying this way, the certification table does not need to be the same, and mustn't. --TIAYN (talk) 17:03, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

-(DONE) The level 3, in section 1.4 should be amended of "Compilations" to "Compilation albums", so that they may use the links to "((Infobox Artist Discography))", also be placed if they are just compilations, greatest hits or other type, in the table, must be shown below the release information, label and ... Greatest hits or compilation. --200.121.59.43 (talk) 16:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from jimknut (talk · contribs) 05:16, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some suggested changes:

Intro:

(Done) “… and released his self-titled debut album, Bryan Adams in 1980” → … and released his self-titled debut album in 1980
(Done) “Adams followed the debut album with the sophomore release You Want It You Got It (1981).” → Adams followed his debut album with You Want It You Got It (1981). (“sophomore” sounds cheesy, plus the previous sentences established Adams’ debut album so I think most people can figure out that the next one is his second)
(Done) “Reckless was released as his fourth studio album in 1984. The album sold eight million copies worldwide and featured the hit singles "Run to You", "Heaven" and "Summer of '69".” → Reckless (1984), his fourth studio album, sold eight million copies worldwide and featured the hit singles "Run to You", "Heaven" and "Summer of '69".
(Done) “In 1987, he released Into the Fire which reached platinum status in the United States and triple-platinum in Canada.” → Comma after Into the Fire
(Done) “Adams entered the 1990s with the release of the album Waking Up the Neighbours (1991), which contained the theme song "(Everything I Do) I Do It for You" for the 1991 film Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.” → Adams entered the 1990s with the release of Waking Up the Neighbours (1991), which contained "(Everything I Do) I Do It for You", the theme song for the film Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. (Since this is an album discography we don’t need to have the world “album” listed that often; the year 1991 need only be listed once)
(Done) “Waking Up the Neighbours went on to sell 15 million units worldwide.” → The album went on to sell 15 million units worldwide (Here is where you can say “The album” as the previous sentence established which particular album we’re talking about.)
(Done) “He also released his first greatest hits compilation, So Far So Good in 1993” → Comma after So Far So Good.
(Done) “He released his seventh studio album, 18 til I Die (1996) which was certified platinum in the United States. It sold five million copies worldwide.” → His seventh studio album, 18 til I Die, was released in 1996. It sold five million copies worldwide and was certified platinum in the United States.
(Done) “MTV Unplugged, an acoustic live album was released in 1997 and reached the top ten in many countries while selling two million copies in Europe.” → MTV Unplugged, an acoustic live album released in 1997, reached the top ten in [exact number] countries while selling two million copies in Europe.
(Done) “In 1998, Adams released his eighth studio album On a Day Like Today, which was certified two-times platinum by the CRIA and platinum by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) — Europe.” → Adams' eighth studio album, On a Day Like Today (1998), was certified double-platinum by the CRIA and platinum by the IFPI Platinum Europe Awards.
(Done) “His second compilation album, The Best of Me released in 1999,” → His second compilation album, The Best of Me (1999),
(Done) “… made a big impact on the European albums chart and sold two million copies there” → Cheesy: How big is “big”? Suggestion: State that it went platinum/double-platinum.
(Done) “In the beginning of the 2000s, with Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron (2002) Adams' was able to regain some of his lost audience in the US.” → Rewrite this. The first part (“In the beginning of the 2000s”) can be dropped, apostrophe after Adams is not needed, “United States” should be spelled out, and nothing prior to this sentence has suggested that Adams lost some of his audience in that country.
(Done) “Room Service (2004) became Adams second album since You Want It You Got It, the first being On a Day Like Today, to peak within the top 200 on the Billboard 200; selling only 44,000 copies in the United States” → Room Service (2004) peaked at number 134 on the Billboard 200 and sold only 44,000 copies in the United States.
(Done) “It topped the album charts of Germany and Switzerland.” → However, it topped the album charts in Germany and Switzerland.
(Done) “Anthology (2005), became Adams' third greatest hits compilation” → Adams' third greatest hits compilation, Anthology, was released in 2005.
(Done) “11 became Adams tenth studio album and peaked within the top 100 on the Billboard 200 and became Adams third number-one album in Canada.” → 11 (2008), Adams’ tenth studio album, peaked at number 80 on the Billboard 200 and became his third number-one album in Canada.
(Done) “However, it did not achieve any certifications in Canada nor the United Kingdom, but has sold over half-a-million units worldwide.” → Although it did not receive any certifications in Canada or the United Kingdom, the album sold over half-a-million units worldwide.
(Done) “He has according to the RIAA 17 million certified albums.[6] Internationally, Adams has sold something in between 65[7] to a number close to 100 million records and singles worldwide.” → According to the RIAA, Adams’ album sales have been certified at 17 million copies[6] while internationally he has sold between 65[7] and 100 million records and singles worldwide. (Change the footnote so it links to the actual page [i.e. page 2] of the RIAA site.)

Soundtracks:

(Done) "Soundtracks" → Soundtrack (singular, not plural, as there is only one album listed [unless, of course, you add the Colour Me Kubrick album into the section] ; in the infobox “soundtracks” is okay as that is the default spelling)
(Done) "—" denotes releases that did not chart.” → No need for this statement as the album charted in all the countries listed (unless you add Colour Me Kubrick).

Rarities:

(Done) What makes them rare? This needs to be explained are deleted. Why can’t the first album be added to the compilation section and the second under soundtracks? (This is where they are listed in the main article about Adams.)

I hope my suggestions help. After they are address I will consider offering support for the article. — Jimknut (talk) 02:03, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Looks good to me. One last suggestion: Adams apparently appears as a guest singer on an album called Pavorotti and Friends 2. I believe this should be added into the discography (perhaps under a new section [?]). — Jimknut (talk) 16:39, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've decided not to include, because it is not his album. He makes an appearance on it, nothing else. The album belongs in the Pavorotti discography article. --TIAYN (talk) 09:36, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Courcelles 21:20, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose Discogs just work better and are more useful when they're on one page. Neither is all that long, so the information should be presented together, as currently written, this list fails 3b. Courcelles 14:50, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the definition of a discography: "The exact information included varies depending on the type and scope of the discography, but a discography entry for a specific recording will often list such details as the names of the artists involved, the time and place of the recording, the title of the piece performed, release dates, chart positions, and sales figures" [2]

Here's a thought. Explain without the profanity why two articles works better than one? And try not posting on my talk apge demanding I do something. I know full well how to use a watchlist. Courcelles 16:38, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are 20-albums in the list, and seeing that he is not retiring any time soon, more albums will probably be released... And as saidd previously, a discography is "The exact information included varies depending on the type and scope of the discography, but a discography entry for a specific recording will often list such details as the names of the artists involved, the time and place of the recording, the title of the piece performed, release dates, chart positions, and sales figures" [3], just a for some reason biasly saying that is list can't become a FL because it's not the way you want it, there seems however, not be any other existing problems with the article. My point is, I have no right to oppose all discography articles which don't seperate albums and singles discographies, that would be POV by my side and be unconstructive to WP:FL process. But for some weird reason, you, an administrator is doing this. Personal feelings aside, is there anything else that is wrong with this list? --TIAYN (talk) 20:39, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See, here's the thing, though. In the music business, albums and singles go together; each album usually spawns some number of singles. On this list, there's no way to connect each single with the album that it is from. There's just more elegance and usability in covering all of this on a single list, a list that wouldn't be excessively long. As the IP used the example, I'll keep with it, David Bowie discography, which is actually a good deal longer than Adams, yet fits easily on one article. Combined, it is far longer than the three lists being used to present the same information for Adams. This isn't arbitrary, the FL criteria actually require using as few lists as possible with the "could not reasonably be included as part of a related article." clause. I'm not sure why you decided to split these in the first place—they were perfectly fine together until 6 weeks ago—but opposing for that is entirely legitimate and within the criteria. Opposing because a discog was not split would be without any grounding in the same. (For the record, this list is only 27Kb long. Combined they would be right around 70 once combined into a single lede, well within size guidelines.) Courcelles 21:05, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll merge the singles, not the videography article. See: Madonna discography, it is split between three different articles, all of which are FL's. --TIAYN (talk) 05:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A good compromise. I'll give you my typical citation and grammar nitpicking in the morning, but that should be all from me. (NB: Note that the size of Madonna's album discog is about twice what this one was, and only 8K smaller than Adams' entire discog before the split.) Courcelles 05:44, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks. --TIAYN (talk) 05:55, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Right, I realise this has dragged on but I'm glad the single and album discogs have been merged, it was silly to have them seperate IMO. On the videography, could it also be included. Two of the seven videos are already covered here under Live albums so I would question if the five albums and the videos could be included here (I doubt you'd make a decent list out of the videography as it stands, but feel free to prove me wrong if it stays!)

I'm going to prove you wrong!. --TIAYN (talk) 15:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you do (prove me wrong). (If you don't find this possible I hope you would at least welcome a a proper, more specific, merge discussion) Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Other comments:
(DONE) ~~Live video ... the cell with "EU: 2× Platinum[33]" in it breaks onto two lines "EU:" and then "2x..." on another. Can this be fixed as it looks odd.~~
(DONE) ~~The same thing happens in "Compilation albums" with anything that went multi-platinum.~~

Rambo's Revenge (talk) 14:25, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think i've fixed, but i didn't really understand the problem to be truthfull. --TIAYN (talk) 15:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It didn't work unfortunately so I've had a play. This works for me, can you (or anyone else) see anything problematic with what I did? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 16:14, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It looks good to me... but of course, I couldn't see the problem either. --TIAYN (talk) 16:22, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Courcelles 04:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Comments

(DONE) Ref 5 has a publication date and needs a publisher

(DONE) Ref 1 does... nothing for me. Check it, please.

(DONE) ref 9 needs location and publisher

(DONE) Ref 7 needs publisher

(DONE) Ref 6... find a new way to do this. Right now, it reads as if Billboard publishes Reuters, which isn't right.

(DONE) Ref 10 has a publication date.

(DONE) For the Records and Archives Canada refs, the dates need to be moved out of the title and into a separate date field. There's quite a few of them.

Refs 36 and 37, what makes them reliable?

Tidy up the refs, and I'll be happy with this. Courcelles 02:02, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well eil.com is a internet shop and i'm pretty sure that they won't lie about something so basic such as it was released to Japan-only. So that pretty much covers that one up, the Soundtrack Collector i'm a bit unsure of, but it doesn't include any let's say controversial information about the album, It only says its a rare soundtrack which is well proven when you search for the album on the internet. --TIAYN (talk) 13:32, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support I'm not up-to-date on MOS:DISCOG, nor do I even try to be, but this meets the FL criteria. Courcelles 04:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.