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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 04:31, 7 December 2007.

Odex's actions against file-sharing

[edit]

Self-nomination. This article is about a saga that mostly took place during the month of August 2007 in Singapore, with extensive coverage by the local and international media. It has undergone a peer review and copyedit request. Any suggestions for improvement is certainly welcomed. Mailer Diablo 16:34, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose This article is sorely not ready for the endless nitpicking and incivility that is FAC. You should try GAC first, but take note that:
Have a nice day! --J.L.W.S. The Special One 05:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pass & support

  • It's fine and readable. Leranedo 23:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Few things but not sure how you would want to handle them. First, Reference 2 (Kicking kids for profit?) is just a blog entry that as far as I can see doesn't add anything that the professional new articles don't already cover - might want to just remove it. Second, reference 56 to Salon.com's Asian Kung-Fu Generation doesn't lead anywhere (dead link?). Third, in "Modus operandi" it says "...in all three cases." but at that point in the article only the first two cases have been introduced - the third case isn't mentioned until the next section. --maclean 06:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, great article, well written. Meets all criteria for FA. Terence 13:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: "This data is then used to subpoena the courts to require that ISPs reveal the personal information associated with the given IP addresses." appears to sound wrong -- I mean if you click on the wikilink to "subpoena" one wonders how does one subpoena the courts? Could there be an error here? Chensiyuan 12:21, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thinking aloud again. "letters of legal threat" in first para of lead -- is a letter threatening legal action condensed legitimately into a "letter of legal threat"? Chensiyuan 13:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    •  Done I've changed subpoena to request. It should sound a lot better now. For "letter of legal threat", according to Ars Technica article the term they have used in the context to compare with RIAA is "pre-litigation letters", so I've adapted to that accordingly as well. - Mailer Diablo 14:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose—1a. Gosh, the opening is a blooper: you shove "the company" in there under the assumption that we already know what you're referring to. Then, you tell us that it's Odex, and provide a little context for the company. "Odex alleges"—present tense is when? Will this last for readers in a year's time? "Out-of-court"—hyphens not required unless attributive. "RIAA"—do we have to interrupt our reading and hit the link to find out what it is? You spell out ISP earlier. "Criticisms towards"—no, "of". "exacerbated by one of its directors' poor response towards the situation"—POV even with the reference (couch it in better wording); "towards" should be "to"; check this word throughout the article. "which ... which". Is this article going to be updated? "Pending an outcome". It's a kind of unstable topic; unsure that it's suitable for FA status on that basis. Now that's just picking random samples from the lead. The whole article needs careful work. Tony (talk) 02:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- Mailer Diablo (talk) 21:45, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Objection [1b and organization] It's well written, very well referenced, very nice in general, I think it was smart to move it straight into FAC.
    it's organization is in need of substancial improvement - no "history section" and no "media coverage" section and "illegal downloader reaction" instead some kind of mix between all three. Suggest better organization.
    "modus operandi" should be mostly integrated into history section, kept as separate however, perhaps renamed into a less criminal investigation sounding term.
    Suggestion: "Context" section speaking about the surrounding actions of RIAA, MPAA
    --Keerllston 03:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I appreciate your suggestion, but this proposed structure looks very odd to me to be implementable, were you having another particular article in mind? Even if implemented it will require stripping and rewriting the entire article top-down. Other comments :
  • Odex's actions are currently ongoing, and to have a "history" section would sound like the whole operation is already over.
  • "Illegal downloader reaction" is essentially the current "reaction" section as its current form.
  • "Modus operandi" is justifiable being it is considered widely as a form of clampdown or enforcement action. (As indicated within article)
  • Please guide me on how the "Media coverage" should be written; To describe the extent of media coverage would constitute original research. Same goes for "Context", as Odex and RIAA are not directly related in their respective enforcements, just the similarity, I have not even heard of MPAA in any of my sources.
  • If we were to reorganize it into the three sections, what should be done with "Odex v. Pacific Internet"?
Thanks, - Mailer Diablo (talk) 11:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • History of many countries is currently ongoing, I'm sure you agree, and includes proceedings such as the making of treaties and famous trials (including in this history the case vs. Ocean and other IP providers)
  • "Reaction" - could be more precise than that, could be more NPOV-ly than "Illegal downloader reaction" - may I suggest "P2P community reaction" or similar?
  • split away new section "media coverage" from "Reaction"- by which I did not mean the extent but rather the coverage by newspapers and what they said - like one of japan that it notes was pro-Odex and in fact wanted more.
  • "Modus Operandi" is also latin, and this is an english-language wikipedia, doesn't that encourage you to change it? I think a good option is "Methodology" or "Method"
- Latin is often used where there is an english translation by the Catholic Church and by intellectuals who have learnt latin or want to pretend that they have, it's also used used by Legal and Police authorities in such as "in loco parentis" and "ergo" and "modus operandi", I don't believe Wikipedia is any of the above.
--Keerllston 12:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Mailer Diablo 02:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Nice Work!
History is basically "Chronology" - we are alive in history - we are making history (not that we are heroes or anything) - so far Chronology is not really treated very well in my opinion. and somewhat divided into Methodology, Cases, Reaction - which is perhaps strange but not necessarily objectionable
I like Reaction being split into Anime Community Reaction and Media Coverage.
I like the existence of the section called legal opinions
I also suggested a section on "Context" - how do you feel about the hypothetical section?
--Keerllston 14:11, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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