Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Eric Harrison (RAAF officer)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Hog Farm via FACBot (talk) 19 December 2022 [1].

Eric Harrison (RAAF officer)

Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk) 13:51, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm new at this so go easy... ;-) Okay, Eric Harrison was, along with Henry Petre, one of the founders of the original Central Flying School at Point Cook, Victoria, in 1913–14. Unlike Petre, he remained a part of Australian military aviation after World War I, and so was the first man to be known as the "Father of the RAAF", a title more commonly bestowed in later times on one of their students, Richard Williams. So Harrison is, as described by an RAAF officer in 1999, something of an "unsung hero" now, but I hope worthy of your attention... FTR, this has long been an A-Class article at MilHist but I never got round back then to adding some new references and sending to FAC as I did with Petre's article -- better late than never...! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:51, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"Harrison was promoted honorary captain" => "Harrison was promoted to honorary captain".....?
"Promoted group captain on 1 January 1935" -> "Promoted to group captain on 1 January 1935"....?
- This is common militarese but happy to alter -- nothing incorrect about "promoted to".
"metrological testing" - is this a typo for meteorological? If not is there an appropriate link, because I personally don't know what metrological means?
- Tks, yes it deserves a link.
Think that's all I got - great work! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Tks Chris, changes made. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 20:36, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:40, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Don't use fixed px size
- Done.
File:Douglas_DC2_Kyeema_1937_(nla.obj-144682466-1).jpg: the NLA indicates that Crome was the collector of these images rather than the author. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:17, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Fair enough, I think it started out as one photographer's work then expanded to include others'.

Tks Nikki, let me know if all good. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:44, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review. I will make minor copy edits as I go. Shout if I mess anything up.

"his post of Director of Aeronautical Inspection". Why the upper case initial lettrs?
- The ADB uses lower case but the majority of other sources cap the first letters of Commonwealth titles.
"Gaining employment as an instructor for Bristol, he taught flying on behalf of the company in Spain and Italy, as well as in Halberstadt, Germany, where he became aware first-hand of that country's militarism; some of the students he trained and examined later served as pilots in the Luftstreitkräfte during World War I." A pretty chunky sentence.
- Won't disagree but hoped the semi-colon gave pause for breath -- if you're really keen to split it I'm happy to have a go though.
"gaining his commission": is there any suitable link for "commission"?
- I think the nearest is commissioned officer -- actioned.
You consistently don't put 'the' before CFS (with the exception of "maintaining the CFS's complement"), is there a reason? Also lead "the Central Flying School"; captions "Eric Harrison at Central Flying School", "in a B.E.2 at Central Flying School".
- CFS is consistently referred to in sources without the definite article, and in fact that exception you note should be altered accordingly.
"30 feet (9.1 m)". I suspect 9.1 m may be false precision.
- I agree, forgot the template had a rounding parameter -- actioned.
"when he was posted to Britain ... at the end of World War I". A picky point, but it seems he was posted before the war's end.
- Well I felt we're only talking a few weeks' difference and by the time he started his work in Britain the war had probably ended -- I could make "towards the end" if you feel strongly about it.

I do. At the point he was posted the war had not ended and I am not sure that it was expected to. Or rephrase to something like "when he was posted to Britain" → 'when he took up a post in Britain' perhaps?

Tweaked.

The chronology jumps around a little disconcertingly. In one paragraph it goes from 1921 to 1938 and back to 1931; understandably given the context. But the next paragraph starts in 1935, before progressing to 1937. Separately, is there nothing to report from between 1921 and 1931?
- I think this impression was caused by a typo in the first para of that section, giving his appointment as Director of Aeronautical Inspection as being 1938 instead of 1928 -- actioned.

Ah, yes, indeed.

"Federal government's". Is it usual t have an upper-case F and a lower-case g?
- Again some sources cap both words, some just the first, and some none. We could hedge our bets in this case and make "Australian government" -- actioned.
One daughter is mentioned. Was she his only child?
- No other children mention in sources.

Then perhaps 'Their daughter and only child, Greta ...'?

Sure.

"just as the war had ended". Perhaps something a little more encyclopedic? 'three days after the end of the war' or similar maybe?
- I kinda like the slightly imprecise wording, given the end of fighting and the official surrender of Japan were a few days apart -- WDYT?

I don't object to the imprecision, but to the casualness of "just". Eg, I am happy with 'On 5 September 1945, as the war ended'; or 'On 5 September 1945, at the end of the war'; etc.

Tweaked.

Lovely stuff. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:58, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tks for reviewing, Gog -- replies above. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Second round replies above, tks again. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 19:51, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Supporting, but note the two remaining instances of "the Central Flying School". Gog the Mild (talk) 20:10, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tks Gog. Actually you've made me re-check more sources -- seems that in its early years it was generally referred to as the Central Flying School, but in its later incarnation (WWII and after) the the was generally dropped; in either case the abbreviation is generally just CFS without the. So I've altered the captions that had "Central Flying School" alone accordingly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 20:39, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Harry

Hi Ian, welcome to FAC. I hope this will be the first of many nominations! ;) You haven't left a lot of nits for me to pick.

with the minister's daughter Ruby as passenger should probably have commas either side of Ruby to make her a subclause
AAIC inquiries were generally held in camera In camera should probably be italicised as a Latin term.

That's it. I'll support now as I feel it meets the criteria even with those two minor imperfections. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:58, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Harry, that's done -- for good measure I've also made Greta a subclause in Their daughter and only child Greta joined the WAAAF... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 19:54, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Pickersgill-Cunliffe

Would be interesting to know what planes Harrison was taught in/instructed others in, if that were possible?
- Re-checking sources, it looks like the only planes used for instruction are those already mentioned in the article, i.e. Boxkite, Deperdussins, B.E.2s and, later, Farman.
"In December 1911" no real need to repeat the year here
- I think it's worthwhile using precise dates at the beginning of new paragraphs.
Was Harrison also made a lieutenant?
- I felt that was implied by mentioning his commission soon after Petre's (as a lieutenant) but I've spelt it out now.
"the Army's proposed Central Flying School" is it right to call it the army when this wasn't actually the name of the organisation?
- Fair enough -- tweaked.
Link Brigadier
- I prefer not to link ranks for wiki-notables to avoid a sea of blue. The standard I try to maintain is linking on first use a rank if the holder isn't linked, and not linking rank on first use when the holder is notable.
Move the captain link to first mention
- As above.
What does "solo standard" mean? First solo flight?
- Yes, linked.
Link honorary rank. Why exactly was it an honorary rank? Harrison was a full-time serving member of the Australian Armed Forces, so why didn't he just get a substantive, acting, or brevet promotion?
- Actioned -- as to why honorary instead of something else, that's not explained in any source I've seen.
Link temporary rank
- It's the same link as for substantive, which I already linked because in my experience it's the more unusual term for the uninitiated, but actioned anyway.
"former commanding officer of Nos. 2 and 4 Squadrons." you don't seem to have mentioned No. 2 Squadron before, is there a link?
- Yes -- actioned.
"On 12 March 1928 he became Director of Aeronautical Inspection" is this a RAAF role or AAIC role?
- The former -- actioned.
Suggest splitting out the links for 1937 Airlines of Australia Stinson crash and Stinson Model A
- Again the sea-of-blue rationale, and in this case I think the key thing is the crash rather than the aircraft type.
"He was a member of the court of inquiry..." it isn't made clear that this is 1938, not 1937
- Tks -- actioned.
Link Air Vice-Marshal
- Sea-of-blue rationale.
Is "safety inspector" the best term for Harrison's position? Before this it's only been described as air accident investigation or aeronautical inspection
- I think "safety" is always part of inspection and accident investigation but took it out anyway.
"In July 1940" don't need to repeat the year, assuming the previous "12 April" was also 1940
- Actioned.
"Eric Harrison received no decorations" no need for a repetition of his forename
- Actioned.
Link Air Marshal
- Heh, I can't plead sea of blue here but OTOH we've established Williams' notability so I felt we could do without it if we accept the rationale for not including the other ones I've noted.
Could add Brighton to his place of death in the infobox
- Could, I just felt since it's a suburb of Melbourne the latter would mean more to the reader.

That's all I have, most of it very minor! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:19, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tks for your comments, PC. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 20:48, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy with your rationale when arguing against my comments. Support. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:03, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

Lead says he died of heart disease, body of cerebrovascular disease - which is correct?
FN45 is a dead link
Odgers: Worldcat suggests a longer publisher name - can you verify? Nikkimaria (talk) 15:58, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Tks Nikki, those should all be actioned one way or another now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:40, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator request

This nomination seems to be ticking along nicely, but would benefit from a review from a non-MilHist orientated editor with an eye on how comprehensible it is to a non-specialist audience. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:44, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, just FTR I think Chris at the very top is MilHist-independant but OTOH this hasn't quite been open three weeks so no prob from my perspective giving someone else a chance to review... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:42, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild and Ian Rose: Happy to read it over. I'll leave my thoughts shortly. ceranthor 20:08, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support with Comments from Ceranthor

"He continued to serve in the same capacity as a civilian until his sudden death at the age of fifty-nine" - why not briefly mention the cause of death?
- Is there a brief way of describing hypertensive cerebrovascular disease? I know it's associated with stroke but not necessarily synonymous...? Ian Rose (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"where he became aware first-hand of that country's militarism;" - this is jargon to me; what does a country's militarism mean?
- The term from the source is "war-mindedness" so I felt militarism was a reasonable paraphrase but open to suggestions... Ian Rose (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Petre was commissioned as a lieutenant in the Australian Military Forces (AMF) on 6 August 1912, but Busteed withdrew his application in October and Harrison took his place, gaining his lieutenant's commission on 16 December.[1][5] " - as is I think this is a run-on; would just split into two (ie in October. Harrison took his place...)
- Quite right -- done. Ian Rose (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"In December 1911, the Australian Defence Department advertised in Britain for "two competent mechanists and aviators" to establish a flying corps and training school." - I'd just want to clarify here that it's physically located in Australia, too, as is it takes a few sentences to clarify that. Could be as easy as just adding in XXX at the end of the sentence
- Fair enough -- done. Ian Rose (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"On 29 June, Harrison married Kathleen Prendergast, daughter of the future Premier of Victoria, George Prendergast, at St Mary's Catholic Church in West Melbourne.[1][13]" - comes out of nowhere, is there really nowhere else it can go in the text?
- Well it's chronological, and it happened before World War I began so I'm not sure where else it could go... Ian Rose (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"The New Guinea expedition was not publicised until it was over, Harrison's cover story for his time away from Point Cook being a honeymoon with his new wife.[15]" - I'll be honest, second half of the sentence lost me - what is it trying to say and how does it connect to the first half of the sentence?
- The expedition wasn't publicised until complete so Harrison required a plausible reason -- i.e. a cover -- for his absence from Point Cook; the cover was a honeymoon. Ian Rose (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"He was appointed officer-in-charge of CFS in June 1917 with the temporary rank of major; the rank became substantive on 9 September 1918." - rather than the duplink, probably better to just link to substantive and remove the temporary rank link
- Yeah, temporary rank is probably easier for the layman than substantive -- done. Ian Rose (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Once these are addressed/discussed, I'll support. ceranthor 20:37, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tks Ceranthor for pointing out some infelicities, will respond to each soon. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:11, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ceranthor, pls check out responses/actions when you have a sec. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:13, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian Rose: Thanks for the ping. Looks fine to me. Re cerebrovascular disease, you can just say stroke I think. With HTNCVD, death comes from either ischemic (restricted blood flow to the brain causing inadequate oxygenation and thus tissue death) or hemorrhagic (bleeding secondary to ruptured blood vessel walls) stroke. Since the source doesn't specify, I don't think you need to go further into detail than "died of a stroke." If you feel more comfortable saying hypertensive cerebrovascular disease and sticking exactly to the source, I don't think adding those three words is terribly demanding of a reader, since just saying "sudden death" definitely made me scroll down into the article body to figure out the cause. Does that work for you? ceranthor 14:17, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It does, and it's done -- tks for that helpful explanation above and all your other comments. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:01, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from JennyOz

Hi Ian, not many comments from me...

Lede

answered the Australian Defence Department's call - should that be piped to Department of Defence (1901–1921)?
- Thanks -- done.

Early career

In December 1911, the Australian Defence Department advertised - pipe DoD per above?
- Done.
and H.R. Busteed - space per MOS:INITIALS (or do RSs not?)
- Heh, I'm going make it moot by putting in his first name.
advertised in Britain ... mention Petre was English-born?
- Done.
News of these flights was only released on 3 March - so were the first three all made on the preceding Sunday?
- Yep -- clarified.
was scheduled two days later. - for two days later (rather than just written down 2 days later)
- Agree -- done.

WWI

never assembled in-country and he had to return in January - embarrassed to say I didn't understand that (have never thought about those early aircraft not flying long distance) but... then I found this (which mentions he also flew first Aust Bristol Scout and Farman MF.11). Then I found how planes went by rail and then were shipped to PNG aboard HMAS Una - "our first aircraft carrier"! here. Is it worth mentioning Harrison's planes transport just before "With little in the way of enemy resistance" (only if Leyland Wilkinson/NHSA is RS, of course)?
- The NHSA is a fascinating article but not certain of how highly we'd rate its quality; likewise ADF-Serials has its supporters but I prefer not to use it. I've employed existing sources to flesh out the crating and transportation of the aircraft, let me know what you think...
  - Excellent!
E.H. Reynolds - space in initials?
- Per Busteed -- and he has an article too, I now find.

Legacy

I know there's no room for another pic but that very good colour photo of the replica Boxkite at RAAF Museum is really so illustrative. Perhaps a link at "Air Show at Point Cook, a replica Boxkite took to the air" if it is the same replica?
- Yes it is a very useful pic and I can't imagine it not being the same replica even though the caption doesn't spell that out. I'm not sure if we need a special link to it since it does appear in the Australian service section of the Bristol Boxkite article that's linked on first use in Harrison's page.
The Australian Centenary History of Defence - italics on this book? (MOS says multi-volume works take italics)
- Hmm, this is interesting because when you use the Series parameter in the Cite Book template, the series title comes out in title case without italics, yet the MOS does seem to say that a series title bestowed by the publisher (which this is) should be in italics. I'm happy to plump for the latter here -- done.

Refs - authorlinks

Cutlack, F.M - Frederic Cutlack
Mellor, D.P. - David Paver Mellor
Serle, Geoffrey - Geoffrey Serle
- Tks -- done.