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Neutral party --you!

Uyvsdi, you've been in on the naming of ethnic group stuff in general, so I am inviting you to take a look and comment at Talk:Great Dismal Swamp maroons. The issue is if "maroons" could be upper or lower case in the title. I really can see it going either way and am trying to not take a strong position, and the main editor besides me who has been monitoring the article since its creator got indeffed is a German, so not someone with a bias other than to the MOS. Neither of us want an edit war over the issue, but some other editors have strong feelings, so I though maybe you could review the issue and sources and then weigh in with an opinion, as I respect your views, whichever way they wind up going. Thanks. Montanabw(talk) 21:07, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I looked around the various articles about Maroons, and the majority seem to be upper case. In published books, it seems to go both ways. -Uyvsdi (talk) 22:40, 25 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

User:WarriorsPride6565

Don't think they are racist per se, just trying to push a pro-Chinese or Asian slant into the article on Indigenous peoples of the Americas. They bear keeping an eye on tho, as they seem to rarely use citations, especially as this IP User talk:94.175.118.39. Heiro 02:25, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

This kind of outdated racist shit does not belong in an encyclopedia. -Uyvsdi (talk) 02:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
I agree. Heiro 02:31, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Racist? on what basis are you calling this racist, no logic and commonsense. And to think you've removed that information has been for an month already. Who gave you the right to removes facts with references. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Mongoloid#Proto-Mongoloids The facts all here, it even mentioned Native americans are Proto-Mongoloids, there's absolutely no reason for other than deliberaty moved it, other than blocking the information on purpose. --WarriorsPride6565（Talk） 10:42, 29 2012 March 2012(UTC)
Actually several users had removed cited information from the introductory paragraphs over a period of the month. So I've restored a substantial amount of cited information. -Uyvsdi (talk) 02:45, 30 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Exactly what is racist

You wrote this the revision history? rmv outdated and offensive material taken from a 1967 book. I'm asking you what the heck is offensive? me being Asian have absolutely no idea what in the world you're talking about. You said the offensive material was outdated taken from 1967 book? which is hilarious seems many of the references in the wiki page are even more outdated, I also ave no idea what you mean by offensive. Btw have you checked the other reference, did you even check them?

  • Sleeboom, Margaret. Academic Nations in China and Japan. Routledge: UK, 2004. ISBN 0-415-31545-X p.56
  • Yuji Takasaki, Steven F. Loy and Hans W. Juergens “Ethnic Differences in the Relationship between Bioelectrical Impedance and Body Size”. Journal of Physiological Anthropology and Applied Human Science Vol. 22; 233-235 (2003) .
  • Takeru Akazawa and Emóke J.E. Sathmåry. Prehistoric Mongoloid dispersals. New York, Oxford University Press, 1996

Is there something you don't want people to know? --WarriorsPride6565（Talk） 11:15, 29 2012 March 2012(UTC)

These kind of statements are absurd and racist: "The picture of the faces of Ameridians are too confusing, most of them don't have that neo-mongoloid look." -Uyvsdi (talk) 06:11, 30 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
The Mongoloid article nicely makes the point I'm trying to convey: "It was introduced by early Racial science to primarily described various central and east Asian populations, one of the proposed three major races of human kind. Since the concept of race has been largely abandoned as a useful way to describe human biological variation the terms have become mostly obsolete. ... outside of physical anthropology the term mongoloid is now often considered derogatory." -Uyvsdi (talk) 06:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Yes, and in addition, as the term "mongoloid" was once commonly used in the USA (as recently as when I was a kid -- in the 60s and 70s) to describe people who had Down's Syndrome, it is EXTREMELY offensive to people in the Native American community AND the Asian -American community. Best to just not go there! Montanabw(talk) 20:53, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Glad to see somebody using them. I have a bot request to add empty fields to lang boxes we're already fixing (I don't think I can get away w requesting that for all 6,000 of them) to encourage more of this. (Also, would "people" be better than "ethnicity"? If we want to switch over, we should decide before the bot goes through.) — kwami (talk) 00:28, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

"Ethnicity" seems like the best possible term in this instance. -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:27, 2 April 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Art of the American Southwest

Hi Uyvsdi!

Thanks so much for your input to the Art of the American Southwest article! Great work!

Listen, I saw that you removed artwork of Ute Indians and ledger art, to which I posted a follow-up question at Talk:Art of the American Southwest. If you have a chance to chime in, that would be great!--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:09, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Basketmaker culture

Per your suggestion, I've moved the Basketmaker (culture) article to Basketmaker culture. The only page that is directly linked to the Basketmaker (culture) page now is your user page.

It may make sense at this point to delete the Basketmaker (culture) page and talk page. Do you have any thoughts about that? Thanks! Carole--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:16, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Hey Carole, when you moved the article, redirects were automatically set up, redirecting links using the old name to the new name. The only problems that arises are when redirects direct to other redirects and when wikilinks direct to a disambiguation page instead of an article. Neither of these are the case. BTW you changed the link on Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Indigenous peoples of North America articles by quality log. The page says, "This is a log of operations by a bot. The contents of this page are unlikely to need human editing. In particular, links should not be disambiguated as this is a historical record," so I just reverted that edit.
Will address your concerns about the Art of the American Southwest shortly. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 23:50, 11 April 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Talkback

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Just found this

Rogan Plate 1

At Commons, know anything about it? If they were old enough they could be from protohistoric Lamar phase pottery traditions. Just wondering what your thoughts on them were. Hope you are well, Heiro 02:13, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Those are gorgeous! I will readily concede to you that you know WAY more than me about classifying early southeastern woodlands cultures. Personally am freaking out because I have way over-committed myself to art shows this summer. Plus am writing my first magazine articles and scholarly papers to be published. The Chickasaw Nation is organizing a conference in their cultural center in Sulfur, OK about SE iconography - once I find out real details, I will share them. -Uyvsdi (talk) 05:14, 3 May 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Awesome! Congrats! I'm about to get hard core with my summer work too, 3 mural projects and 3 to 4 months on the road. I've just had a series of art shows this winter too, haven't been on here much til the last two weeks that I've had a little down time and have added a whole slew of articles and illustrations. Will be over soon tho :-( and back to the grind. Check out Wulfing cache, Etowah plates, Pensacola culture and I hope to soon have Mississippian copper plates (User:Heironymous Rowe/Sandbox, I ended up finding so much lately it seemed easier to write a few smaller articles and then use summaries of them and the other bits of info for the larger article about manufacture, single plate finds, etc.). Good luck with your summer stuff and let me know, I'll be in Ohio and Kentucky all summer, but if something was close I might show up, lol. Hmm, the Chickasaw, or at least an ad firm in Oklahoma working for them, licensed some images of mine for a video for their tribal museum. You might see some of my stuff, lol. Let me know, I've never seen what they did with it. Heiro 05:56, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
PS, any pics of actual copper plates you might be able to take and upload while you are there would be awesome!!!!! I've loved doing all the illustrations lately, but would love some more pics of the real things for the articles! Heiro 05:59, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Cheyenne Arapaho Tribes

Please do not cite news articles when editing and making changes to my tribes information. I can send you all the necessary documents related to the current issues. Nativeguybuh (talk) 01:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)NATIVEGUY

If there are better published sources, you can link them here or also discuss at Talk:Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes. Wikipedia has to maintain a policy of Neutral Point of View, and we cannot commit libel against any living people. Otherwise, to get whatever information out that you want, I invite you to create a blog. Blogger.com is free and there you can post anything you want. Here you have to back up everything you say with published, secondary sources. -Uyvsdi (talk) 04:37, 12 May 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Stereotypes of Native Americans edit

I found something that didn't seem to belong and looked like vandalism, sorry for removing it. 95.144.203.8 (talk) 23:54, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

No, no, you were totally correct to do so. It was my mistake. -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:24, 5 June 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Yamassee native americans

In view of your creating the redirect for Yamassee Native Americans,[1] please consider commenting at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Yamassee/Yamassee native americans. Thanks. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 04:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Yamassee Native Americans

I can vaguely understand the redirect, but I don't think it makes sense. Our article on Yamasee makes it clear they were Native Americans, and the double s spelling is found quite a bit on Google books (more than the single s spelling in fact). And what's worse, when you end up at [Nuwaubian Nation]] there isn't anything at the top saying that if you are looking for Yamasee, etc. Maybe Yamassee Native Americans should go to the dab page? Dougweller (talk) 14:03, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to change it. The non-Native activist groups seems fairly obscure. -Uyvsdi (talk) 16:15, 6 June 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Thanks. I've just noticed your post about Ancient Pueblo Peoples and chimed in there - always an interest of mine and even more so since my visit to the Navajo reservation and Mesa Verde a few weeks ago. My post just above yours asks about adding the Ramapough article to [2]. I also want to work on the Canyon de Chelly National Monument which is woefully inadequate, you'd hardly know there were real people living and working there. I've got 3 books on Canyon de Chelly I can use. Dougweller (talk) 17:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Cool, I'll have to read up to figure out what's going on with the Ramapough. It's so difficult to find factual, NPOV information about state-recognized tribes, but I'll look. I haven't been to Canyon de Chelly in years, but I do have plenty of books covering the subject so can pitch in there. I'll be on the road for a couple weeks, but can help here and there. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:24, 6 June 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Regarding, Ancient Pueblo Peoples, it's been an altogether weird couple of weeks for indigenous articles. -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:25, 6 June 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Elizabeth Warren and List of writers from peoples indigenous to the Americas

You've argued against including 'Elizabeth Warren' at the article List of writers from peoples indigenous to the Americas[3][4]. You may wish to elaborate on your reasons for removing her, at the newly-opened RfC: Talk:List of writers from peoples indigenous to the Americas#RfC: Warren's claim "factually disproved"?. --→gab 24dot grab← 15:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

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Walum Olam

I've taken the edit warring IP hopping edit warrior to ANI here Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive756#IP hopping possible indef blocked user. Heiro 01:41, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Cool, I don't know why people love hoaxes so dearly, while refusing to learn any actual history. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:43, 22 June 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
If it is who I think it is, this is the least wacky thing they believe and try to shoehorn into articles. Hope you are well, Heiro 01:44, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

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Thank you!

Hi Uyvsdi! Thank you so much for the lovely barnstar and for noticing my new articles so quickly! Glad to be helping out with a great project :) Loriski (talk) 14:10, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject Indigenous languages of California

Hello! I've seen you around on Indigenous languages of California articles ... Would you consider becoming a member of WikiProject Indigenous languages of California, a WikiProject which aims to expand and improve coverage of Indigenous languages of California on Wikipedia? Please feel free to join us.

--Djembayz (talk) 12:04, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for signing up-- as always, there is more gnome-like work to be done in support of the subject experts than any one person can do by themselves! Djembayz (talk) 17:00, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Your edits on Robert Latham Owen

As one who has worked extensively on the article on Sen. Owen, I am grateful to you for finding a reference to his Dawes Rolls entry, listing him as 1/16 Cherokee. This is a source I had not seen (or cited) before. It of course sets up an inconsistency with his mother's account of her ancestry in her memoirs, as laid out in the article's footnote. I have made this inconsistency a little more explicit.

With respect, though, your edits to the article, otherwise welcome, did introduce one new error. Scales and Goble, in their book, do (as the article previously stated) cite Owen's mother Narcissa as being 1/8 Cherokee. You "corrected" their reference to 1/16, but I have their book in front of me (1982 edition, page 33) and it clearly says 1/8. I believe them to be incorrect, but that is the point of quoting them, and we should of course quote them accurately. I have therefore changed this reference back.

Thank you again for your interest in this remarkable life. Nandt1 (talk) 01:53, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Certainly, no problem. Blood quanta are typically absurdly incorrect anyway. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 02:09, 31 July 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Walum Olum

Note the user is IP hopping, see [5], the IP's talk page and User talk:166.147.112.7. I'm off to bed now. Dougweller (talk) 20:50, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I believe it is our old buddy Marburg72 back again, for the proof [6], one of the IPs from that last bunch a month ago that I made an ANI report about [7]. Heiro 20:54, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Just came from the excellent discussion on defining indigenous identity at the Indigenous Peoples of North America WikiProject. Your contributions stand out even within a generally helpful, incisive conversation. Many thanks. ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 18:46, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Alarob! Am relieved that all that discussion finally resulted in some consistency across articles. Happy editing to you! -Uyvsdi (talk) 20:21, 7 August 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Otciapofa

Thanks for the correction-merge there. Earlyamericanbios (talk) 04:45, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

No worries. Thanks for developing Muscogee Creek articles. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 05:34, 23 August 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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The IP you warned for WP:ERA change at Cole culture is Marburg72 back at it again

He has been using this IP range all summer to cause trouble, his main interest right now to revert my edits. Feel free to revert any and all edits concerning Native American subjects where this range is involved. See here User talk:Diannaa/Archive 21#Another one from the same IP range as the 3 you blocked yesterday. Heiro 05:48, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeesh, someone's got time on their hands. Thanks for the head's up. -06:54, 29 August 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Some questions

Hello Uyvsdi. Since you seem to be quite involved with the topic of indigenous people I thought you might be able to help me. Could you explain to me what the preferred protocol is (if any) for determining the primary topic when both the ethnic group and the language share the same name. There appears to be some kind of standard being applied but I can't seem to find a guidelines which discusses this. I came across the page Macushi (disambiguation) a few days ago and tagged it for cleanup. Per WP:MOSDAB it isn't a valid disambiguation page as it only disambiguates two items of which one is the primary topic (therefore a candidate for speedy deletion under db-disambig). I am interested in whether these type of pages are somehow different. Wayuu people is another one that puzzled me, Wayuu redirects there but there is no hatnote pointing to the language article. Is this intentional? I am certain I have come across, and perhaps edited a number of these types of disambiguation pages before, so it would be particularly usesful to know that I haven't been messing with some kind of established rule. All the best, France3470 (talk) 13:32, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi France 3470, there is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ethnicities and tribes). If there are only articles for the ethnic group (Foo people) and the language (Foo language), the generic name ("Foo") should redirect to the primary topic, which is determined by a number of factors, number of wikilinks to the articles, number of page views, etc. Typically this means the ethnic group; however, notable examples of the language being significantly more important include English language and Latin.
You're right that Macushi (disambiguation) only has two dabs, so could be eligible for deletion. The infoboxes for all language and ethnic groups have links to the other; however, not all of these articles have infoboxes yet, so a hatnote are a good idea in the meantime. One reason why there are still two dabs pages with only languages and ethnic groups is that was a practice by members of WP:WikiProject Languages; however, it's in conflict with WP:MOSDAB, so I've been trying to clean them up. -Uyvsdi (talk) 16:39, 18 September 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Thanks for the reply! My initial reaction to these article was that these, like all others, must surely fall under the same WP:PRIMARYTOPIC guidelines as everything else. However the comment at Wayuu, "moved Wayuu to Wayuu people: vs. lang. per naming conv." and your comment at Macushi, made me wonder if there was some other guideline. Glad to know there isn't. Looking at Macushi (disambiguation), and the page views for the two items, I would be inclined to say there was no primary topic in this instance. Which would mean the redirect Macushi should be deleted and the dab take the base name. Since you redirected Macushi back to Macushi people in July, I'd be interested if you thought the primary topic had changed. France3470 (talk) 17:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Macushi people would still be the primary topic. It had 201 page views in the last 30 days, it has 31 (give or take) articles linked towards it, and gets 13,300 Google hits; compared to the 187 pages views, 8 articles linked, and 7,350 hits that Macushi language receives [Note: it is good to make doubly-sure that the redirects are pointing to the proper article]. Also, looking at it logically, the language is only one of many cultural aspects of the ethnic group, and the language hasn't dramatically spread beyond the single ethnic group (as per Ethnologue). I don't know if this is a factor for determining the primary topic, but Macushi language is a two-sentence, uncited stub, whereas, Macushi people is at least a cited, start-level article. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:24, 18 September 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Talk:Diego Quispe Tito

There are no |importance= or |priority= parameters in WikiProject Biography. There are work-group priority parameters such as |a&e-priority=. Bgwhite (talk) 20:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Right-O. Thanks for the head's up. -Uyvsdi (talk) 20:18, 8 October 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Cherokee calendar

What? Raven Hail, Cherokee got it from the Maya (deleted that), etc? Now why am I struggling to find mention of this in the academic books I can find through Google? Is there such a calendar? Dougweller (talk) 07:12, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh Lord, this is some serious new age bs. BTW hope you are well. -Uyvsdi (talk) 08:37, 28 December 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
I'm fine thanks, hope you are also. Discovered this when someone used it as a reference on Maya calendar. I've found a number of bizarre articles by fringe writers in the last few weeks, I've got at least 5 at AfD now. Thanks for the PROD. 16:32, 28 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs)
Created recently by Theowensfamily (talk · contribs) - a username that isn't according to policy -- wouldn't be surprised if they object, but you need to see their other edits also. Dougweller (talk) 16:39, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Maybe the prod will work, if not I'll nominate it for deletion, and if that fails rewrite the article based on what confirmed facts are available (as with the Chaloklowa Chickasaw). I can ask some Cherokee traditionalists who work for their tribe - definitely what's currently on the page from Hail's book is her own invention. It's funny how people try to use Wikipedia as a means of validating and promoting their groups/theories/etc. as if inclusion somehow confers legitimacy. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:39, 28 December 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Talkback

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