User talk:Emperor/Sandbox/Captain Britain and MI: 13

Looks like a good start on the article there. Just some things:

1) There is no link to MI-13 in the article. =P

2) How should we address the characters involved at the moment as no official superteam will be formed until issue 4. I guess i just dont like the idea of them being considered members of MI-13, as the ones that are not field agents are just superheroes working for/along with MI-13, Faiza Hussain is neither yet and we dont know Tinks status but last time we saw her she was still an agent.

--- Paulley (talk) 22:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Welllllll:

1. Edit away :p
2. We have the various reviews and previews which tell us how the core team will shape up and some of the other British superheroes who will be brought in (and Tink's role) - I'll be going through what we have and drop them in as sources. We can clarify things in an out of universe way as in "characters who have been confirmed as members of the team include" and then firm them up later.

There is a lot of material in the interviews - it'll just take a bit to tease it all out. (Emperor (talk) 22:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC))

Lol fair enough, i have been trying my best to wade through it all as well.. hope you dont mind but i converted the character section to written text instead of bullet points (i havent found the one about Tink yet must have missed it) and definitely agree with the out of universe thing. I think if we can keep it only having the plot section in universe with the rest of the article more fact related we'll be doing OK. Also need to mentions Cornell's Wisdom mini series where most of these MI 13 characters have come from --- Paulley (talk) 22:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Yep. I haven't yet found anyone saying it but it must have been testing the water or an audition for the Excalibur gig. I have dug out the sales for the Wisdom series and will drop them in there. When next month's sales come out we can compare the two - I've read comments saying things like "the few people who actually read it thought it was great" and coming out of Secret Invasion (who's sales are HUGE) will give it a real boost and it is already looking like the potential breakout hit spin-off. (22:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC))

On a really off the record POV side note.... i really really would love this series to do well and carry on into the 100 issue mark. :)... ah yes well i must leave you now.. gotta sleep before work good luck with the internet searches i will check back in tomorrow to see how its going. --- Paulley (talk) 23:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes fingers crossed it'll run for a while (at least until he gets sick of it or some BIG project interferes), if it is as good as Wisdom and it gets the readers (which the tie-in will provide) then it should do fine - it sounds like he already has enough ideas for a couple of years worth of stories.

I've now incorporated the links in the main article, next I'll go through the reviews and sketch out a sentence or two on the reception. We won't need much on the plot so far (otherwise we'll have to trim it down later anyway) so it is shaping up nicely. (Emperor (talk) 00:11, 21 May 2008 (UTC))

Just added the news about Blade, however we cant link to the blog (wiki restrictions). However Marvel often add the blog points to there website at some point.

Heres the link

http://
blog.myspace
.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=92159514&blogID=398185740

also shows some penciled cover art for issue 5. --- Paulley (talk)

We can link to blogs like that. It is a point I raised on the comic project - the exception to the guideline is where creators discuss their work (I've used it for exampe here: Stickleback (comics)). We can't use it for passing on slander and slurs but that is pretty much covered by WP:BLP already. So I think that is fine - we can also source it more accurately when it gets published so it would only be temporary anyway. (Emperor (talk) 12:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC))

The link causes a Spam filter notice, and wont allow it to be added (that's why i broke it above).. so we will have to leave it like it is at the moment... it shouldn't be long before its posted by marvel anyway --- Paulley (talk) 12:28, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah right I see - inconvenient but there will be another source along soon. He is clearly the character that was hinted about long ago - the British character coming back who people didn't consider British (I think it was in an early Newsarama interview as I think at least one comment got it right). That does have me very excited and should also be a big boost to the series. (Emperor (talk) 13:31, 24 May 2008 (UTC))

Yes hopefully, though other Blade ongoings never seemed to fair well so i can only hope he has better luck as a team player. Really should have guessed with the Spitfire vampireness coming through plus last time he and Union Jack met Blade shot UJ repeatedly so hopefully there will be some character play there. --- Paulley (talk) 19:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to let you know we can use a few things from Paul Cornell's blog http://paulcornell.blogspot.com/ he mentions the blade joing in issue 5 and the fact that CB & MI13 has sold out world wide. also this has gotta hurt [1] --- Paulley (talk)

Good stuff - I've been through and scooped up some resources and started the reception section - which could probably do with a polish for readability (or at least proof-reading as I moved bits around to get better flow but that might mean it could need a tweak). (Emperor (talk) 17:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC))

Yes, it looks good so far.. a few more tweaks will be needed but those should come easier with the continuation of the series. --- Paulley (talk) 18:23, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Sooooo how are things looking? Seems to be pretty solid so far. Are we going to wait for issue #2 and the sales estimates or make it live sooner? (Emperor (talk) 20:56, 28 May 2008 (UTC))

Well it looks as good as we are gonna get it, until new info arrives, i think maybe we should let issue two come, then update the plot (if needs be) and post it live (hopefully the sales will have come in by then). Alternatively we could post it just before the release of issue 2 when there sure to be a surge of interest and then update it as needs be. --- Paulley (talk) 21:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes we have pretty much got what we can and that makes sense. I do wonder if it might be worth going live earlier as it'd allow us to tidy up the other articles - one thing that struck me was the review that suggested it was a bit like being dropped in the deep-endif you hadn't read Wisdom and tidying up the MI: 13 article and dropping in "Wisdom" and "CB+MI13" sections might allow us to expand the history a bit and it might help ease some people in. Also I suppose if it is as good as we can make it, then there is no need not to. (Emperor (talk) 21:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC))

Sorry, you lost me a little there. Are we talking about expanding MI: 13 or bringing in plot details from the other series into this article?? As for going live we could pretty much do that at anytime really... it makes no difference, having something stable and established before posting was the main point of this exercise and we have done that. -- Paulley (talk) 21:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Im gonna take it you meant clean up and expand MI-13... which i agree needs looking at the departments history needs expanding but we have to careful to make sure it concentrates on the MI 13 and not its surrounding titles plot... currently it does not barely mention its original appearances in X-Force.. If we do expand it i suggest we write the whole thing in an out-of-universe style. --- Paulley (talk) 08:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes sorry - clean-up MI:13 and I agree we should aim for it to be framed in an OOU style and use {{main}} to link the sections through to the other articles which go into more detail. At the moment it is confusing and needs the weighting balanced out - I was surprised to see it is an Ian Edginton creation and (as it hasn't yet been collected) I know zero about that angle and the article doesn't help. I haven't yet found an interview of his from the period but will look around to see if I can find something. (Emperor (talk) 02:06, 30 May 2008 (UTC))

Yea, i dont have any experience with those X-force issues but i know it involved P Wisdom joining x-force only to fake his own death, at which point A Stuart asked him to join MI: 13.. i think in the MI: 13 article we should state that the department is closely associated with Wisdom and possible Stuart (but i dont think he was involved in Excalibur). I might try and hunt down those x-force issues and see what they turn up. --- Paulley (talk) 08:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The first part of his run has been collected - just not the important bit!! The review with 2000ADreview explains what a nightmare it all was but nothing specific about MI: 13 - I suspect it wasn't thought to be a big deal at the time. (Emperor (talk) 13:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC))

Well i just read X-Force 114-115 (Epitaph story arc), Stuart and Wisdom are in it (mostly the second one) but there is no mention whatsoever of The Department or MI-13????? --- Paulley (talk) 15:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

http://en.marveldatabase.com/MI-13 has a far more comprehensive history and states that it first appeared in Excalibur (Volume 1) #101. i will have a look there. --- Paulley (talk) 15:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Although no guarantee of anything but the Comic Book DB also lists them as first appearing in Wisdom. I think it'd be worth dropping a note to Charles RB, as he wrote it. (Emperor (talk) 15:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC))

lol i didnt relize it was only created two months ago... hmm im just about to get the Excalibur issue, so i will get back to you. --- Paulley (talk) 15:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Its Excalibur... after the fall of Black Air, Stuart mentions that all that the former paranormal organizations are being rolled up into one "department" though it is not named... its obviously not until the New Excalibur that Wisdom mentions the actual name and this is furthered in Wisdom.. i will do a quick rewrite --- Paulley (talk)

Rewrote the infobox and article lead will look to expand the history at a later date -- Paulley (talk) 18:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Great - I made it live with some other information on British press attention. Given that it also makes sense to have it live so new readers have somewhere that draws together all the information. We can clean up the other entries now and make sure we have everything in the right place. I'll move this over to the talk page tomorrow - it'll give me a chance to practice history merges. (Emperor (talk) 01:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC))

Ok cool, i did wonder how you were gonna manage merging it all lol. ---Paulley (talk) 08:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I have updated MI-13 giving it a brief history. If you could give it a once over with a fresh eye it be much appreciated. Also i found this http://fractalmatter.com/main/?p=475, its Paul giving commentary on the first issue of Wisdom, it was good for a couple of refs on the origin of things you should check it out just in case i missed anything useful. --- Paulley (talk) 10:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Also i have been on a bit of a trail around google and found this Cornell interview with Wizard. http://www.wizarduniverse.com/051608cornellcapbritain.html it goes into detail about the use of the UK Registration Act compared to US and how the British heroes will go in completely the opposite direction the way the Americans have gone in the last few years. Its a good read and i think it has some things we may want to include in this article and a few others. --- Paulley (talk) 12:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Excellent resources - I'll go through them later and have a read through MI: 13. (Emperor (talk) 13:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC))