Template:Did you know nominations/ZiL lane
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Orlady (talk) 04:22, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
ZiL lane
[edit]
- ... that Moscow's ZiL lanes (pictured on Kutuzovsky Prospekt) are special lanes on main roads that are reserved for the use of top government officials?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Richardson fire
- Comment: Expanded 5x
Created/expanded by Prioryman (talk). Self nom at 10:59, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
- 2 consecutive sentences with elite and dachas. Concerned that of the three references two are London Olympics news pieces. This needs to be about the ZiL Lanes, not about how they are perceived by the London media. What was the justification for them? There are only two, still. Does awareness of these in the west date from old cold war propaganda? How did they get associated with the Olympics Lanes? Secretlondon (talk) 15:43, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
- I've resolved the repetition. Only one of the references is a London Olympics article; the main source is an article inspired by the Olympics but which is almost entirely about the original Soviet/Russian ZiL lanes. The justification is described in the article - they were created to allow the elite to get to the airport and their dachas quickly. I'm not sure where awareness of them comes from, though I think it's more likely to have been passed on by journalists than to be general public knowledge. I also don't know how they got associated with the Olympic Lanes, though I've come across references to the lanes being referred to as "ZiL lanes" as far back as the 2004 Athens Olympics. Prioryman (talk) 23:19, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
- I've edited slightly. The photo would be okay to use too. It's recent enough and has been expanded 5x. It's categorised as a stub which needs fixing (stubs are ineligible).
Secretlondon (talk) 16:29, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
- I assume you mean on the article talk page? I've de-categorised it pending a review of the article by members of the two Wikiprojects concerned. I'm afraid your edit introduced an inaccuracy - there were more than just two ZiL lanes (that's why I said "some" rather than "two") and the BBC source article makes it clear that the lanes mentioned in this article were the two main lanes, not the only lanes. Prioryman (talk) 18:15, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
- Okay. It would be nice to know what the others were. The stub issue is the talk page tagging. I've previously been asked to recategorise them, rather than just uncategorise them. Secretlondon (talk) 22:23, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
- This isn't as much of a review as a comment. Normally when I write about Russian and Soviet things I find a range of POVs and some really strong (and misleading) western media sources, some glowing Russian sources and the reality is lost somewhere. It makes one very aware of a kind of orientalism affecting the reporting of the east, certainly in Britain. It makes it vital not to write an article on the east solely using western media sources. All the sources I can find are Olympics related, but claim to based on the 'infamous' Soviet ones, which were so infamous they weren't apparently written about. It would be worth searching an English language media archive to try and find the first use. It's interesting that neither en's or ru's article on Kutuzovsky Prospekt mention that the leadership can drive down the central reservation. I don't think this 'meme' of the fat bureaucrat in his big car with his special road has been written about critically so adding anything would be OR. However I'd be amazed if it wasn't of western origin. Secretlondon (talk) 23:05, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
- I honestly don't think you have any grounds for that conclusion. The ZiL lanes have been known about for decades. I found and added to the article a contemporary eyewitness source that describes the effect they had on traffic. It's completely fallacious to dismiss it as a "meme". It's nothing of the sort - it was an established, documented feature of Moscow life. There are English-language sources that go back to the 1970s that mention it in passing. Frankly I find it irritating that you should dismiss it as mere "orientalism" based on no evidence whatsoever, which strikes me as almost being prejudiced against Western sources ("occidentalism"?). Why don't you ask a Russian? Prioryman (talk) 07:32, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
- This isn't as much of a review as a comment. Normally when I write about Russian and Soviet things I find a range of POVs and some really strong (and misleading) western media sources, some glowing Russian sources and the reality is lost somewhere. It makes one very aware of a kind of orientalism affecting the reporting of the east, certainly in Britain. It makes it vital not to write an article on the east solely using western media sources. All the sources I can find are Olympics related, but claim to based on the 'infamous' Soviet ones, which were so infamous they weren't apparently written about. It would be worth searching an English language media archive to try and find the first use. It's interesting that neither en's or ru's article on Kutuzovsky Prospekt mention that the leadership can drive down the central reservation. I don't think this 'meme' of the fat bureaucrat in his big car with his special road has been written about critically so adding anything would be OR. However I'd be amazed if it wasn't of western origin. Secretlondon (talk) 23:05, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
- Okay. It would be nice to know what the others were. The stub issue is the talk page tagging. I've previously been asked to recategorise them, rather than just uncategorise them. Secretlondon (talk) 22:23, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
- I assume you mean on the article talk page? I've de-categorised it pending a review of the article by members of the two Wikiprojects concerned. I'm afraid your edit introduced an inaccuracy - there were more than just two ZiL lanes (that's why I said "some" rather than "two") and the BBC source article makes it clear that the lanes mentioned in this article were the two main lanes, not the only lanes. Prioryman (talk) 18:15, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
talk page recategorised so good to go. Secretlondon (talk) 00:25, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
