The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by feminist (talk) 11:00, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Comment: Alternative images for ALT1. thumn Caption for ALT1 image would be: Figure of Youth sculpture
5x expanded by Storye book (talk). Self-nominated at 16:45, 4 February 2019 (UTC).
Looks like an interesting life and work, on good sources, thank you! I will have many wishes for changes, - is that acceptable, or would you rather like a different reviewer? For a beginning: both hooks are too complicated (for me). We need the term (pictured) somewhere in them. - In the article, I'd like a summary of his life in the lead, not these two facts which could come later. I don't like sandwiched text between images, - consider galleries. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:11, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the review, Gerda. Sorry I forgot the "pictured" brackets, I've now added them in. I put the two facts in the lead because when I was doing a lot of DYKs a few years ago, I was usually told to put them in the lead along with their sources, to make things easier for readers and reviewers. But I can remove them if you like; they are already repeated in the text.
Re the sandwiched text, that puzzles me. Are you using a different screen from me? I'm using an old-fashioned monitor (17in/43cm diagonal measurement) with pc, and I don't get sandwiched text. I would imagine if you are using a tablet or phone, on non-mobile/cell mode, then that would stretch the text vertically and you should not get sandwiched text. If you are using a modern wider monitor, then that might sandwich the text, especially if you are using small print in your browser and you have your WP preferences set for large thumbnail pictures. So this idea of how we prevent sandwiched text for all viewers is surely a moot point? And if that were the case, maybe all articles should have galleries only? I have always arranged images not to be sandwiched on my monitor, using default thumbnail-sized images, and fairly small text, so as to please most pc-users. UK libraries and institutions have a similar-sized screen to mine. So as far as I know, I'm catering for that type of average reader. If you think I should also cater for another type of screen, please tell me? I'll re-write the header tomorrow, when I'm not so tired. I have been uploading images all day, and my eyes are giving up. Thanks for your help so far. Storye book (talk) 22:01, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
I feel this article can easily go to GA, and for that, you need a summary of his life in the lead. First time I hear that the hook facts have to be there ;) - Btw, suggestions for the article have nothing to do with approving for DYK, they are just suggestions. Images: try upright for the "long ones", - the size you have is not so good on a large screen, and I know many who have that. I like galleries, especially for art, see here, for example. See you tomorrow, and no rush ever for DYK ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:12, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
I made a few changes, - what do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the changes, much appreciated. I don't know what the "upright" function does, though - the images have remained in the same position on my screen. Please let me know whether I should use "upright" in other articles to help people with wide screens? Re GA: I definitely don't want to go GA with any of the articles I've created. The GA process itself is fine; the trouble is that it later attracts a certain type of editor. I only have one GA, and two editors successively took it over as if they owned it personally, and spent many hours changing it fundamentally throughout, until it was no longer the entity that was approved for GA. The first one added a lot of valid info and updates, but at the same time caused chaos by accidentally(?) removing references and other information, and introducing numerous linguistic errors. I corrected it (it took many days). The second editor decided to rewrite most of the language according to preference; it was not about style or clarity. They apparently just wanted to change it. From then on, every time I edited the article (because I had read the sources and the second editor hadn't), the second editor reverted my edits, and scared me off WP for a year. That article now really needs to be reassessed for GA, but that would be impossible with that second editor around. So no more GAs for me. Re the hooks in the header: no there was no rule about that; a number of reviewers were asking me to do it to help speed up their reviewing. I hope to get the header re-written in the next few hours. Storye book (talk)
Thank you!
Upright should normally be used for any pic which is higher than wide, giving it about the same area as a landscape image, otherwise they get too prominent. You can fine-scale by giving it a value, a multiplicator between 0.7 and 1.3 to make a pic smaller or larger.
left - right: the normal position is right. Left causes problems, pushes out the text, especially the next header. The only "excuse" to have a pic left is when the person pictured looks right, and unfortunately, almost all in the article do that, - that's why I proposed a gallery. It would be nice if all pics of his works came with italic title and year.
GA: sorry to hear your story. We can still treat this article to GA quality, yes? - Please don't give anyone the power to drive you away. With a GA, you have the power to restore the approved version, and demand that any change be discussed if reverted, or - better - discussed before.
We write for the readers, not to make reviewers' life easier ;)
I'll go and make his work a gallery, - just as a suggestion, revert if you don't like (but then we should find a different solution for the now left pics). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:03, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the help. Sorry Gerda I had to revert your gallery effort because I was in the middle of a slightly complex edit and could not have merged it due to the way the edit conflict system is set up. I'll redo the gallery in my own way, if that's OK. I would normally hesitate to use a gallery in this case, because I'm aware that the majority of casual readers are intimidated by a wall of text, and moving images to the gallery could cause that in this case, where I have what amounts to a rather long and dry list of artistic works. I have tried to break it up with subheadings already. Storye book (talk) 10:36, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Understand (especially the problem of edit conflict). Will wait for you and then look again. The more subheaders, the more problem with an image that should go left. I only wanted to show how a gallery would work and look, and of course it makes sense to have selected images closer the context, therefore left the last one already. Try the caption consistency anyway, please. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
adding: you said well that the hooks are anecdotes, and in a way I'd prefer saying something positive about him, like commissions from the Queen, example pictured. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:44, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Galleries done; I'll add a few more later, really having trouble with eyes today. and need to finish some Commons work. Re the proposed Queen hook: we only have pictures of one commission from Victoria, and that is the Royal Stewarts memorial. These are either a drawing of a lying-down tombstone, or a photo of it where it looks like a coffin - not very hooky. If I could photograph it myself I could do a closeup of the carvings, but all his works are too far away. Oops I forgot - we have Hutchison's own drawing of Victoria's and Albert's busts. I could split out the Victoria one and brighten it up a bit for the 100x100 thumbnail. What do you think? Storye book (talk) 11:28, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Hutchison's drawing of his Bust of Queen Victoria (1887) I have done the image. ALT2 ... that Scottish sculptor John Hutchison was commissioned by Queen Victoria to create her portrait bust(sketch pictured)?
I think that's much more eye-catching in small size than the two other topics, thank you. We need to say something before "pictured" because it's not the bust. "sketch"? Will look at the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:08, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
After completing the bust, Hutchison drew a sketch of it for the newspaper, since they couldn't print photographs very well in those days. The paper would normally commission an engraving, but I guess this was a quick fix. Storye book (talk) 12:14, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Understand. I suggested to show more art, less frame in the galleries, - see what you think. Consider to place the whole anecdotes thing a bit later. One ref needs formatting, url shows instead of title. Excellent sources, no copyvio obvious. - Detailed article, a pleasure to read, thank you!
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
Looks like an interesting life and work, on good sources, thank you! I will have many wishes for changes, - is that acceptable, or would you rather like a different reviewer? For a beginning: both hooks are too complicated (for me). We need the term (pictured) somewhere in them. - In the article, I'd like a summary of his life in the lead, not these two facts which could come later. I don't like sandwiched text between images, - consider galleries. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:11, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:25, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
