Talk:Wipeout (video game series)

Article name change

The article has been renamed to Psygnosis game series despite not being developed by Psygnosis for most of its life, From 2002 to 2013 it was SCE Studio Liverpool and its now technically owned by XDEV. The vast majority of people who look for Wipeout (series) will be looking for this and not the lesser-known game show video game adaptation so I personally didn't see anything wrong with just moving the article to Wipeout (video game series) or keeping it as 1995 video game series. RealNZZN (talk) 15:45, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

@RealNZZN: and @PresN: I agree it should be moved to Wipeout (video game series). There is no need to add any additional disambiguation. There is no other article about video game series called "Wipeout". The current name is not going to be easy to type and makes no sense to be this complex.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 04:58, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Agree with this proposal to move to Wipeout (video game series), I'm assuming @PresN: just made a bit of an error here and maybe wasn't aware of the full history, so hopefully it's a quick change. Being WP:Bold is fine but just not quite right this time. Mountaincirque^talk 10:16, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Note: just to clarify Psygnosis technically merged into Sony in 2000 and became Studio Liverpool / SCE Liverpool, so it is odd to call anything after Wipeout 3 a 'Psygnosis game'. Other development studios also worked on the remasters for Wipeout Omega Collection...so you can't and shouldn't state in the title that this is all under one studio. Mountaincirque^talk 10:31, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

My reasoning was a) List of video games based on Wipeout (2008 American game show) exists and is clearly a series of games so (video game series) doesn't disambiguate enough, and b) (1995 video games series) was such a terrible disambiguation for a series that has releases covering 1995 through 2017 that anything was better. I figured that "Psygnosis" was possibly wrong as opposed to "Studio Liverpool", but let it go since that's also kind of wrong. That all said, I don't much care what the name is as long as it makes sense, so let me know whatever y'all land on and I'll move it. --PresN 03:42, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, as noted there seems to be a consensus in this (albeit small) discussion for Wipeout (video game series) which already redirects here, so it needs an admin/page mover to change that, please do so? I can see your point on the other 'Wipeout' games, but in my opinion as the title is completely different, with that being a list, it is not a problem, as well as the fact that those games are so low profile that only one has its own page. I'd argue that List of video games based on Wipeout (2008 American game show) could be just merged into the main article for Wipeout (American game show). 08:32, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is going to confuse Game Show for video game series. And we can always add a note if there is confusion.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 16:21, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

It is a series of video games, based on a game show, so yes, it would be confusing since they are both video game series. -- 67.70.27.246 (talk) 08:04, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

• This is a pretty unique case where two game series in different genres, devs and years bear the same generic title. Local consensus is required as this is beyond standard NCVGCAB parameters. I think the futuristic racing series should be at Wipeout (racing video game series), and the gameshow adaptations are probably fine staying at List of video games based on Wipeout (2008 American game show) even though that is a stupid long title. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 18:43, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• @Salvidrim: From what I can see, the "American" has been removed. Don't know how long ago that was. Why can't it just be (video game series) if that disambiguation is going to be redirected back here anyways? I think we're making this much more complicated than it is. There is no other video game series article known as Wipeout there are game shows, but its a completely different media that has its own naming conventions.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 18:53, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
  • On another note, the List of video games based on Wipeout (2008 American game show) has has only 8 entries with no new updates since 2014. I know it's not the best place to mention it here, but a speedy merge could be made if it makes things simpler.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 19:19, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
    • It wouldn't simplify the matter at hand, which is titling the article about the racing game series, because the entire point is that "Wipeout (video game series)" remains ambiguous with the gameshow adaptation game series regardless of whether the latter has a standalone article/list or is merged with the parent franchise article. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 19:35, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

• If the article is the primary topic, it won't need disambiguation (per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC). I admit that it mainly refers to natural disambiguation, but I think the principle behind the rule can apply here. So I'll support "Racing video game series" in the title if we can verify that this isn't the primary topic for video game series. How are we going to determine that?Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 20:17, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

• I don't think the video game series would ever qualify as the primary topic of Wipeout. "racing video game series" also doesn't seem right, since the game show based video game series also involves racing, obstacle racing -- 67.70.27.246 (talk) 08:03, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

• I will be keen to see this moved back to "(video game series)". There's no need for the extra layer of delineation. ♦ jaguar 09:09, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
  • As long as the game show videogame list article exists, that is an impossible article title, since there is a different video game series with an article, thus failing the basic WP:AT principle of distinguishing between articles with disambiguation. "(video game series)" should point to the disambiguation page, if there are two articles on video games series. -- 67.70.27.246 (talk) 08:03, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
    • It appears it won't exist for much longer as it's about to be merged. ♦ jaguar 10:36, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

• I agree with Jaguar, this conversation has become over-complicated, the page was at (video game series) in the past, which still redirects here, and there is no similar page title: so let's go with that. Simply add disambiguation links for the List of video games based on Wipeout (2008 American game show) here and to this page on that one. Mountaincirque^talk 09:22, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
• I'm in favour of (video game series), as per status quo, and then fix any other problems by other means. - X201 (talk) 10:22, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

It seems that this has all turned into a big mess now. The original title of this article, "Wipeout (series)" has been moved to the disambig page Wipeout. Looking at the page reveals that the only 'series' on there is indeed this one. The 2008 game show is a television programme, and its international adaptations cannot be considered a collective series. To further compound matters (at the risk of digressing), we also have Wipeout (British game show) and Wipeout (1999 game show), both derivatives of an American trivia game show, though the latter is Australian, making the former's title inconsistent. I also discovered that Wipeout (video game) was moved to "1995 video game", despite the fact that there is no other video game named Wipeout on Wikipedia.

The list of video game adaptations of the 2008 game show is about to be merged, which not only highlights its lack of notability but illustrates that it is merely a list of games and not a series or franchise in its own right. The renaming of this article to 'Psygnosis video game series' is not only a convolution but a puzzling choice as most of the instalments were developed under Studio Liverpool. This aside, I would like to stress that we do not cave in to Wikipedia's innate inclination for needless overcomplication, and just move this back to "Wipeout (series)". The disambig notice at the top of the page should take care of the rest. ♦ jaguar 11:06, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

@Jaguar: i 100% agree with you. There is no need for Wipeout to be named (video game series) since it's the only series out there. Game shows aren't series and follow their own naming conventions. if someone is confused, the note at the top directs them to the correct location. The same thing with Wipeout (1995 video game). I don't know why we're worried about it being ambiguous among non-articles.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 14:08, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 30 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved Sceptre (talk) 16:24, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

---

Wipeout (Psygnosis video game series) → Wipeout (video game series) – Unnecessary mention of company name, no other video game series article. Natg 19 (talk) 00:58, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). – Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 01:10, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

• @RealNZZN, PresN, Blue Pumpkin Pie, Mountaincirque, Salvidrim, and Jaguar: pinging all participants in the above thread (67.70.27.246 notified on user talk). Natg 19 originally requested this at WP:RM/TR, but a requested move is definitely in order as not all editors are in agreement. – Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 01:26, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

• Move, as per earlier discussion, the Psygnosis title is not factually accurate or necessary as there is no other video game series page of a similar name. Mountaincirque^talk 07:55, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
• Move away from Wipeout (Psygnosis video game series) for sure – I still think "(video game series)" is slightly imprecise due to other series of video games titled Wipeout, but I won't oppose it if that's the consensus compromise. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 08:35, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
• Move back to "Wipeout (series)". As established above there is no other series which share the same name. A disambig notice at the top should cull any confusion. ♦ jaguar 09:51, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
  • It is not so established, there being multiple TV shows by this name. Thus multiple TV series. -- 67.70.27.105 (talk) 15:36, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
    • That's not a series. Wipeout (2008 game show) is a television programme which kindled an international franchise. The standalone versions like Total Wipeout and Wipeout Canada are part of the franchise. The same can be said for the spin-offs of Wipeout (1988 game show), a trivia game show. ♦ jaguar 20:31, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
• Move back to "Wipeout (series)" as well. Game Shows aren't "series" and since this is the only actual established series, I believe it doesn't need the video game part as well. If the consensus prefers (video game series), then I support that as well.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 13:24, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Games shows can have series of episodes that are sequential, there being tournaments and such. Further, common sense tells us that people in the world call these things "TV series" -- 67.70.27.105 (talk) 15:37, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
• Move back to "Wipeout (series)" to restore the original status quo. - X201 (talk) 14:40, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

• Strong oppose "(series)" This clearly violates WP:AT being highly imprecise, there being multiple TV series in multiple TV franchises by this name -- 67.70.27.105 (talk) 15:34, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment but WP:TV's naming conventions has it require to be listed as Game Show, not TV series. So even WP:TV wants a distinction from the two.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 15:51, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
• Move back to "Wipeout (series)" per others._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 15:44, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support OP's proposal. (series) does seem a bit vague, given the existence of the TV series. I've added a hatnote to clear up any confusion with the TV series-related games. 162 etc. (talk) 16:00, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose suggested proposal. I am really astonished by all the above who fail to acknowledge that Wipeout (2008 game show)#Video games has a list of 8 video games, which clearly is a "Wipeout video game series", nor even care that "series" can just as mean any of Wipeout TV series. If Psygnosis is a bad qualifier, then a better one should be found and used. Film articles for example, use the year of the first entry, such as Spider-Man (2017 film series). If that doesn't work, something else can be used, like the genre or type of the games. TL/DR: the end result should both disambiguated between the other video game series and other media series. --Gonnym (talk) 09:25, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Gonnym: Spider-Man (2017 film series) now redirects to Spider-Man in film, the previous articles with similar disambiguation have been merged as well. In order for Wipeout (racing video game series) or Wipeout (1995 video game series) to exist, there needs to be an existing article titled "Wipeout (action video game series)" or Wipeout (2010 video game series)" needs to also exist. Right now there is only Wipeout (2008 game show)#Video games, so this article should be the primary topic for the video game series called Wipeout. I understand if you disagree with it just being called (series) and prefer (video game series). But Unless it's proven that the licensed games are notable enough to be considered a series make their own article, I don't agree we need to make the disambiguation anymore complicated.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 17:46, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
  • 8 video games in which only one has an article? I think it's safe to have the primary topic as the video game series here – The Grid (talk) 02:05, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

• Move, The vast majority of people who look for Wipeout (video game series) will be looking for this and not the game show video game adaptation. RealNZZN (talk) 10:05, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
• Comment - This is clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Wipeout (video game series)", which is more WP:CONCISE than the current title. One could argue that "WipEout series" would be a viable title but I don't know how often that version is used by sources. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 17:39, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

It's been over seven days, and I believe we have a consensus.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 15:56, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.