Talk:Urtica dioica/Archive 1

Archive 1

Caps

I've restored it to caps; "stinging nettle" can mean any species of Urtica which stings (of which there are several), while "Stinging Nettle" refers specifically to U. dioica - MPF 15:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

That's only one interpretation. A phrase like "the stinging nettle" is unambiguous in context, and it is very unlikely that a reader would interpret it as "all those nettles which are capable of stinging". Vernacular plant names are not proper nouns: they vary from region to region, are not controlled by a naming body, etc. etc. There is therefore no need to plaster articles with capital letters, and at least an æsthetic reason to keep the names in lower case. "The stinging nettle" is Urtica dioica. "Stinging Nettle" is Capitalisation Where None Is Needed. I notice that the OED (under "nettle") seems to agree with me:

"…the Eurasian plant U. dioica, which has strongly toothed ovate leaves and is an abundant weed of damp waste ground, roadsides, etc. (also called (common) stinging nettle)"

It would also have been nice to have had a discussion about this, given that there has been disagreement in the past. --Stemonitis 16:07, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Aesthetically, capitalisation is far better, as it means the species are all titled uniformly, without random variation in capitalisation depending on (often obscure) etymology rather than botany. Lower casing some gives the impression of 'superior' species and 'lower' species - MPF 16:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree that consistency is desirable, so I'd be happy for a site-wide policy on names (particularly if it plumped for lower case). The idea that a capital letter on something like "European stinging nettle" makes it look "superior" is, however, ridiculous, and it would be sad if the only reason for capitalisation were so as to make the poor little hairy nettle (or "Hairy Nettle") look more butch alongside the European stinging nettle and the American stinging nettle with their superior capital letters! The counter-argument, of course, is that having lower-case names allows one to preserve the (not at all random) information that an adjective is derived from a proper noun, by having them, and only them, capitalised. --Stemonitis 16:26, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

A site-wide policy has been discussed on several occasions (see the WP:TOL talk archives); each time, there has been a small, though not statistically significant majority in favour of capitals for species names. Personally, (for plants, anyway) I'd actually rather see the page titles shifted over to scientific names, but that too while popular has never reached any overall agreement. - MPF 17:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd also be happy with scientific names, since the whole point of having them is to be able to refer unambiguously to taxa. But, in the absence of clear rules in any direction, I think it's best to avoid moves between different capitalisations, and have therefore reverted to the original, lower case spelling. --Stemonitis 09:19, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Incidentally, the move also wrecks the peer review link above (see here for the review), but that's only a small problem. --Stemonitis 16:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Another note concerning consistency. Among the category leaf vegetables, of those where you can tell the difference, only three entries use Upper Case Naming of Plants: Fat Hen, Common Purslane and Scurvy-grass Sorrel. Far more use lower case: Brussels sprout, Chinese cabbage, garden cress, golden samphire, land cress, mile-a-minute weed, miner's lettuce, rock samphire, sweet potato, Welsh onion, wild leek, and winged bean.

remedies

User:MPF says the dock remedy is not very effective. D.M.N., an anon, is plugging the fern sori remedy. I took out both editorial comments and left the remedies. If someone can cite a reference as to the effectiveness of either one, it should be put here, but at this point they are either POV or original research and should be omitted. -- WormRunner 01:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

nutrients

it would be nice to know what particular nutrients nettle leaf contains. I'll try and find out. --MM 22:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Anecdote

Is the WWII anecdote in the Uses section really encyclopaedic? Is it verifiable? Chaos syndrome 11:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Claude A. R. Kagan 23:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC) During World War II, there was a shortage of green vegetables and so our housemaster E. D. Laborde who had come from the Fiji islands decided that we should eat these nettles. He sent us all with the exception as the house Prefect , a lad named Powys who claimed privilege. We came back with pillow cases filled with the nettles and turned turned themn over to the cook who did not seem particularly pleased to get them. At supper we all had at least a taste of them but the housemaster and the prefect gorged themselves with these not so bad green vegetables, sort of like spinach.

Failed GA

I failed this article as a GA because of the lack of references. Fix that, and it would be fine.Some P. Erson 14:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Beer recipe

Does the beer recipe belong here? Tone is definitely non-encyclopedic as it stands. --Brianhe 04:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably not. It was added wholesale by an IP. While interesting enough, Wikipedia is not a place for recipes, much less one in that tone. I removed it. It did manage to stick for 10 days, though, which was odd. Ourai ^т _с 05:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Sword fern as remedy

In my area, Oregon, it is known, or said at least, that rubbing the seeds of sword ferns against areas affected by nettle is effective. Can anyone get a reference for this, or place it on there with a reference? Also, if you do find a reference, add it to the sword fern article, I already edited that one with this. Shadowedmist 02:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

a discrepancy? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.42.142.77 (talk) 22:27, August 23, 2007 (UTC) could i point out in the section "stinging mechnism" it states that its a hystamine ,acetylcholine and serotonin which cause the sting but under "Anti-itch treatment" the article constantly makes referneces to formic acid which is it?, i would edit to fix this but i dont know which one is correct --86.42.142.77 22:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Nitrogen-rich // baby food

"Because stinging nettle usually grows at nitrogen-rich places, it often contains high concentrations of nitrate which can be converted in the digestive tract to carcinogenic nitrosamines and should therefore not be used for baby food."

Does it follow, then, that it is unsafe for a breastfeeding mother to consume nettle, be it in the form of a tea or otherwise? I want to be sure before I drink any :)... 76.213.69.155 (talk) 04:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Mechanism of Action

Anybody know what makes them sting?

The little hairs on the leaves and stems.

I moved this into a new section ('Mechanism of Action') because it was appearing before the contents pane. 82.3.220.156 (talk) 17:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Here is an interesting article:

Fu HY, Chen SJ, Chen RF, Ding WH, Kuo-Huang LL, Huang RN (2006). "Identification of oxalic acid and tartaric acid as major persistent pain-inducing toxins in the stinging hairs of the nettle, Urtica thunbergiana". Ann. Bot. 98 (1): 57–65. doi:10.1093/aob/mcl089. PMID 16675601. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link). The PDF is currently hosted at the NTU institute of Plant Biology.

I find their work very persuasive, and according to me, this issue is not solved yet. The histamine - acetylcholine explanation needs to be updated.--Slashme (talk) 10:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Remedy

Baking Soda, Baking Soda, Baking Soda. Scrub Baking Soda on the sting area. Rinse with cold water and repeat until sting subsides.

208.54.14.74 (talk) 03:17, 27 February 2009 (UTC)julie

Duration of Sting

It seems from comments here that the duration is dependent on the person and the severity of the contact, from minutes to a week! DGerman (talk) 16:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

My experience last weekend is that it causes annoying pain and then wears off in 1 or 2 days. Camlamine lotion gives immediate relief, other anti-itch creams such as cordizone did not work at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.168.45.209 (talk) 22:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Some info on this, similar to the details found on the Poison Ivy page would be very useful, that's exactly what I came here looking for. Unfortunately I can't comment from personal experience because I've always rubbed dock leaves on the sting almost as soon as it happened and in spite of what this article says it stopped the sting fairly quickly every time. Danikat (talk) 21:11, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

My experience is that the sting goes away in a few minutes with no treatment. If you've always used the leaves, then maybe the pain went away on its own, and you just credited it to the leaves. --Trovatore (talk) 10:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

"Nettles don't hurt if you count to ten" (as in The Little Black Hen by A. A. Milne), and I've found this works, but only for mild stings and only if you don't rub it and do carefully think of something else. If the stinging hairs strike tender skin hard and square they go in more, and then hurt for much longer and raise a bigger welt – and then I find nothing helps much (for example if a mature stem whips back and gets you behind the knee, or if you grip a stem squarely with your fingertips). It's possible to touch nettles without being stung, if you're careful to brush the stinging hairs over flat before you grip. I wonder if there is variation between species? There is certainly variation within Urtica dioica – U dioica ssp galeopsifolia has no stinging hairs at all. Richard New Forest (talk) 12:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Good to know, though it's hard to envision a situation where that would happen to me. Typically when I get stung it's when I'm hunting for wild blackberries; blackberries and nettles tend to grow together. But I'm certainly not tromping through them, just looking for a berry here and there that I can reach. --Trovatore (talk) 19:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Arrival in Britain

I've heard that Stinging Nettles arrived in Britain with the Romans, who brought them over from the European continent. Is this true, or are they autochthonous to the British Isles??? 144.32.126.11 (talk) 17:48, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I have heard that before as well, but as far as i know the plant is completely native to britain and is most common there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.246.56 (talk • contribs) 16:55, 14 June 2008

I think this may be a confusion arising somehow from the common name of Urtica pilulifera: Roman nettle. This does not occur in Britain, but is common in the Mediterranean region. There are two species in Britain: common stinging nettle Urtica dioica, which is native and small nettle Urtica urens, which is a weed of cultivated ground "probably native" to Britain (introduced in Ireland – info from Interactive Flora of the British Isles). Richard New Forest (talk) 12:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

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Grasping a Nettle

The page currently states that "In Sean O'Casey's Juno and the Paycock one of the characters quotes Aesop "Gently touch a nettle and it'll sting you for your pains/Grasp it as a lad of mettle and soft as silk remains". The metaphor may refer to the fact that if a nettle plant is grasped firmly rather than brushed against, it does not sting so readily, because the hairs are crushed down flat and do not penetrate the skin so easily", citing this page as the source. However, this page shows that in an experiment, nettles sting a lot when the leaf is young and little when the leaf is old, regardless of the method used to grab the leaf. I originally changed the wording from "the fact that" to "the misconception that", but it was reversed by Hotcrocodile, who stated the site states "Grasping the nettle can work". That full quote is "Grasping the nettle can work, but only sometimes" and goes on to explain "If you want the cheap parlour trick version of 'grasping the nettle' - more or less guaranteed to work - pick a large, flat leaf (>5cm/2" long), position your finger and thumb above and below it, and squeeze quickly and firmly, making sure not to brush against any other part of the nettle. But you will know in your heart that this is a sham demo."

I propose that the page be changed back to "misconception" to reflect that fact that a firm grasp has little to do with whether or not a person will be stung. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.252.188.208 (talk) 15:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

It's not a "misconception" if grasping a nettle can work, the cite states that it "depends on both your technique, and on how stingy the nettles are". Maybe you could rewrite the paragraph to reflect this, and without using the words "fact" or "misconception" as neither seem to be accurate.  ⊃°HotCrocodile...... + 15:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Nettle fertiliser

Hello, I'm Aigipan from NL-wiki .. I am searching for an EN.wiki article on fertiliser (self)made from urtica nettles as described in this article's heading 'Gardening':
"As well as the potential for encouraging beneficial insects, nettles have a number of other uses in the vegetable garden. Nettles contain a lot of nitrogen and so are used as a compost activator or can be used to make a liquid fertiliser which although somewhat low in phosphate is useful in supplying magnesium, sulphur and iron."
.. or even on home-made plant-fertilisers in itself? If any en.wikipedian could help me on this, Thx  :) Aigipan (talk) 17:00, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi, and welcome to EN-WP. Have a look at Comfrey#Fertilizer uses, which describes the same sort of thing with that plant, which is more commonly used than nettles. There does not seem to be an article on liquid fertiliser (or at least, if there is, I can't think what it would be called. Richard New Forest (talk) 22:30, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Although late (been quite busy IRL), thanks for the reply @ Richard. If there is no specific article on that then I won't be linking to the Comfrey#Fertilizer uses. Aigipan (talk) 11:22, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Safety

The page cited says ‘this is one herb that absolutely MUST be harvested in the early spring while the plants are still young and tender, and BEFORE flowers start to appear. I want to stress the importance of that fact since you can damage your kidneys consuming mature nettle parts.’ This should be noted in the article so folks will not hurt themselves but perhaps someone could confirm if the info is correct. The source is here Canbyte (talk) 02:36, 10 August 2012 (UTC)canbyte

Whilst the advice may be given in good faith in this reference, it has nothing to back up the claims and is in no sense a reputable source. In addition Wikipedia does not give medical advice (good or bad).  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   08:16, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I also have read this in multiple sources. Nettle MUST be under 6in tall to be consumed or it will kill you. ( that really needs to be mentioned in the article).

I believe it is a slow poisioning requireing either en-mass or multiple exposure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.255.240.10 (talk) 15:21, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

References

Nettle sting avoidance

Growing up,the town folk used to tell me that a good way to avoid the sting of a nettle was to hold your breath while you are touching it. Personally,I remember trying this and I couldn't feel a sting.But this was many years ago.

Can anyone confirm if this is false or true?If the latter,I would like to add it to the section.--MightySaiyan (talk) 14:30, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

It is true, tried and tested. However, I cannot provide a reputable source for this. 95.176.132.133 (talk) 20:05, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Article title

The article title is very misleading. The species Urtica dioica as a whole is not a "stinging nettle". Some subspecies, particularly U. dioica subsp. galeopsifolia, do not have stinging hairs. In the UK, the BSBI standardized name "Common Nettle" is used, but this is not a true vernacular name. "Stinging nettle" applies only to those plants which do sting, i.e. U. dioica subsp. dioica in the British Isles. The most sensible thing to do is to move the article to the scientific name, and then merge in Urtica dioica subsp. galeopsifolia, which is currently a separate article for some reason. Peter coxhead (talk) 15:01, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

That is a mess, a classic example of what goes wrong when common names are used as article titles. Common names, because they vary so much regionally, often apply to subspecies or varieties, not to whole species. Since Urtica dioica subsp. galeopsifolia does exist, I'd suggest that subspecies pages are likely to proliferate in future, and I'd be happy to make up stubs for the other subspecies. One that seems likely to pop into existence at some point, I think, is Urtica dioica subsp. gracilis, called American stinging nettle or California nettle, which has traditional medicinal uses. The page called "Stinging nettle" could be a disambiguation or list page, but would need to be defended by watchers against addition of plants that sting but are not called "stinging nettle". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:02, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not generally very keen on proliferating articles down to subspecies level, but the range and variety of those of Urtica dioica, and the fact that whether they are species or subspecies seems to be disputed, suggests that it may be justified to have separate articles in this case. It's certainly the case that using English names (you can't really call them "common names" in many cases) has caused huge confusion in the "nettle" set of articles. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Okay, so as not to proliferate too much, I've just created Urtica dioica subsp. gracilis, which is the only other subspecies that so far had a detectable presence in Commons. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:50, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I'd say move the article to Nettle leads to Urtica dioica. Nettle (disambiguation). Make "Stinging nettle" lead to Urtica dioica also. I think articles on subspecies should appear sparingly. HalfGig (talk) 02:10, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Looks like I switched train of thought while writing that....List "Stinging Nettle" in Nettle (disambiguation). Also make "Stinging Nettle" redirect to Urtica dioica, which should have the reworked content now in "Stinging Nettle". HalfGig (talk) 21:56, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Support. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:39, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Support. (I think we might have previously had someone editing here who had a different opinion, so three supporters might not be enough.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:48, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I just tried to move this but it won't let me. I think we need an adminstrator and/or because the scientific name redirects back here. I've asked Shirt58 to take care of this.HalfGig (talk) 01:34, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Now let me get this straight. This article should be Urtica dioica and "stinging nettle" should redirect to Urtica dioica?

All fine with the subspecies? Pete aka --Shirt58 (talk) 10:07, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Initially yes. The WP:PRECISION problem is that by "stinging nettle" most English speakers in Europe or North America mean only those subspecies that have stinging hairs, which not all do. If we end up with separate articles on the subspecies, then "stinging nettle" should be a disambiguation page pointing to relevant subspecies, but we can sort that out ourselves. What we can't do, as non-admins, is to move "Stinging nettle" over "Urtica dioica". Peter coxhead (talk) 10:37, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Redirect deleted, page moved from "Stinging nettle" to "Urtica dioica". When "Urtica dioica" was a WP:REDIRECT, the page had three edits:

(cur | prev) 09:16, 19 January 2006‎ User:Stemonitis (talk | contribs | block)‎ m . . (29 bytes) (0)‎ . . (redir to stinging nettle)

(cur | prev) 15:28, 18 January 2006‎ User:MPF (talk | contribs | block)‎ m . . (29 bytes) (0)‎ . . (link edit)

(cur | prev) 12:18, 19 May 2005‎ User:Gdrbot (talk | contribs | block)‎ m . . (29 bytes) (+29)‎ . . (nomialbot - linking Latin name Urtica dioica to Stinging nettle)

--Shirt58 (talk) 11:20, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I've edited the article a bit to fit the new title. Peter coxhead (talk) 14:36, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Further to this, I've just reverted a change that redirected "nettle" here. Further comments at Talk:Nettle (disambiguation)#Urtica dioica as "nettle" and "common nettle". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:41, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Cystoliths wrongly confused with bladder stones?

The article says "After the stinging nettle enters its flowering and seed setting stages the leaves develop gritty particles called cystoliths, which can irritate the urinary tract." I recall reading somewhere that it is a myth that the cystoliths in stinging nettles can irritate the bladder.

I expect this mistake arose by confusing them with bladder stones, also sometimes called cystoliths. I am skeptical that the cysoliths found in nettles can somehow survive the acid of the stomach, somehow get through the gut wall into the body, somehow make their way through the blood system without being detected as a foriegn body, and somehow get through the kidneys which routinely filter out much more tiny things. 2.97.208.128 (talk) 13:56, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Please link it to Japanese page

Please link it to the Japanese page. The article in Japanese wikipedia exists but is wrongly linked to another subspecies of uritica. The name of the article in Japanese wikipedia is イラクサ.

 Done Peter coxhead (talk) 08:12, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Stinging Nettle Tea / Replacement for Spinach / As Salad

In Germany, stinging nettles are drunk as tea. Common tea mixtures are with blackberry leaves, liquorice root and fennel, or with green tea (the latter called "Detox" by one company). Stinging nettle tea has the reputation of being healthy. Also, it is well-known as a replacement for spinach and as salad. 79.227.190.2 (talk) 01:14, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

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Palm of hand etc. also affected?

Mention if the sting can only affect parts of the skin with hair follicles or not. Jidanni (talk) 23:41, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Tongue affected?

Mention if the tongue is affected, or not[1]. Jidanni (talk) 23:43, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

nettle fest

I just thought I'd add info about nettle fest, a great festival on Galiano Island BC. I had already added it once, but didn't add citation. Norisheep (talk) 14:17, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Arthritis

Here is a small scale test of effect on arthritis, via Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine.TGCP (talk) 09:08, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Urtica dioca

Is an important food crop for several species of butterflies, including peacock, red admiral 2A00:23C8:9DB5:8701:BD60:183:CA01:EEE8 (talk) 06:47, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Provide a WP:SOURCE for that. Invasive Spices (talk) 19 September 2022 (UTC)

It is already sourced in the article, not that it is in any way controversial anyway.Plantsurfer 15:13, 19 September 2022 (UTC)