Talk:Turtle Island

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On 11 May 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Turtle Island (Indigenous North American folklore) to Turtle Island. The result of the discussion was moved.

Basic logic of continent names

Don't want to be unnecessarily skeptical, but ordinarily there would be no real reason for any language to have a name for a continent specifically unless the speakers of that language were aware of the existence of more than one continent... AnonMoos (talk) 20:28, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not to mention that the chance is very, VERY slim that any Natives would have visited both the West and East coast and considered North America to be an "island". Adding a tag. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 11:54, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. This article currently states, without justification, that Turtle Island is a concept referring to North America specifically... rather than "the land that humans know", or "the world", etc. Mebden (talk) 23:29, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to move it to a new title that isn't specifically tied to North America, as I agree that the name does not seem to have been originally intended to refer specifically to North America, but to all land on Earth. Kaldari (talk) 22:03, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The foundational sources for this page agree that Native Americans of the Northeastern Woodlands used terms variously translated as Turtle Island to refer to the known world which to them was North America. The term referred to the known world of those Native Americans and they knew solely of North America and thus today the term has become associated with North America alone. No reliable sources have been provided that reject this notion and considering that the change to the name "Turtle Island (Indigenous North American folklore)" has also caused controversy regarding the eurocentrism of the term folkore, I'm going to suggest moving the page back to "Turtle Island (North America)". AethyrX (talk) 21:47, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you say they only knew North America? Indigenousin North and South America have many genetical similarities (see Genetic history of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas, and there was much exchange, from today's Mexico to Canada and Ecuador and Bolivia. As well as many of the Caribbean and Pacific Islands. The idea that they only knew North America is very.... North American. 204.101.158.131 (talk) 19:46, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was a while back so I'm reconstructing my thought process just as much as you are but I believe I was referring to the term being derived from a belief regarding the creation of the world yet coming to mean simply 'North America'. So I was likely operating under the assumption that a term narrowing from 'the world' to 'North America' would mean that the conception of the world at the time was entirely 'North America'. It's most definitely possible that I was wrong and the indigenous people of the Northeastern Woodlands knew of more than so-called 'North America'. Iirc, people from Rapa Nui had made contact with the Sinú and people from surrounding areas and that's across the ocean so it's very possible there was contact throughout the land. Regardless, my point was that the term is variably used more specifically than just "the known world" and the move to reflect that has already went through. Sidenote: I'm from the Caribbean idk if you consider that 'North American' but idk if that matters much to the point anyway AethyrX (talk) 20:24, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is too obvious to be dwell upon. The native peoples of the Americas had no geographical knowledge beyond the lands and waters they occupied. Like many native beliefs, the concept of "Turtle Island" has been misconstrued in order to bolster a false claim on behalf of native Americans to an entire continent, rather than to the lands they occupied, and fishing, hunting and transit rights in the larger area where those activites took place. WmDKing (talk) 14:02, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 18:23, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

– The use of term 'Turtle Island' referring to North America appears to be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC based on page views [1] and traffic out of the dab page [2] —blindlynx 00:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

:Oppose. The term is used by too many different people for too many different geographic locations. In this instance, a disambiguation page makes sense. Yuchitown (talk) 14:03, 11 May 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

Support. Looks like the Haudenosaunee and Delaware topic is primary, so I'll change my vote. Yuchitown (talk) 14:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - If not moved, the word "forklore" should be removed from the title. oncamera _{(talk page)} 17:25, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom, also agree with oncamera that 'folklore' should be replaced with something else if not moved. Maybe like "concept," since it has largely evolved past being simply "folklore" from one culture. Other suggestions would be appreciated. PersusjCP (talk) 03:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Can't see any evidence it's the primary topic given how many others there are. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Page traffic aside, looking through google scholar hits are overwhelmingly as a different name for north america—blindlynx 22:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Perhaps the name could be changed to Turtle Island (Indigenous)? Agree with Oncamera and PersusjCP that folklore should be removed. Yuchitown (talk) 22:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.