Talk:Togail Bruidne Dá Derga

Move to Togail Bruidne Dá Derga?

Early medieval Irish texts are more usually referred to by their (standardised) Irish title first and then some modern English equivalent. Compare for instance, Tochmarc Étaine, Táin Bó Cúailnge and others in Category:Early Irish literature. It would therefore seem natural to relocate this article to Togail Bruidne Dá Derga and keep the lemma 'The Destruction of Da Derga's Hostel' for the relink. Right? (Cavila (talk) 10:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC))[reply]

The real point is for Wikipedia's readers to find the article under its title, as Wikipedia is nothing more than a reader's service. Much of the rest is cultural vanity of one sort or another. A thoughtful editor would make a redirect from Togail Bruidne Da Derga, without the accent mark, which is not available on most English-language keyboards. --Wetman (talk) 11:40, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So basically you're saying it does not matter what the lemma's title is as long as the relinks direct to the same article (and the primary title is not misspelled of course)? There is some truth in that, unless one wishes to impose some standardisation on the way Wikipedia displays early medieval Irish (literary) texts, both in the respective article and in any of the categories in which they are listed. In that case, a general preference would go out to standardised Irish titles. Although they can be the product of scholarly convention and may vary in the MSS, there is often less conformity about translated titles, for which there is usually more than one possibility and which may pose the additional problem of interpretation. I'm not sure if that's cultural vanity or just a desire for some order and clarity.(Cavila (talk) 14:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)).[reply]

The article started life at Togail Bruidne Da Derga. So I'll move it to Togail Bruidne Dá Derga and fix the redirects. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:22, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We don't pedantically insist on the original title on The Sorrows of Young Werther or War and Peace or Iphigenia at Aulis. Why here? Call it The Destruction of Dá Derga's Hostel as Stokes did, and get on with writing an encyclopedia, instead of a collection of riddles. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:35, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Da Choca's Hostel?

I have found references to a tale of 'the destuction of Da Choca's hostel", one that seems to also belong to the Ulster cycle ... Is it the same tale under a different name? --Svartalf (talk) 02:33, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's a different story. It's the story of the death of Cormac Cond Longas, Conchobar's exiled son. After Conchobar's death, the Ulstermen invite Cormac home from Connacht to be the new king. On the way home, Cormac accidentally breaks his gessa or taboos, and they come under attack from a band of Connachtmen. They take shelter at Da Choca's hostel, where they are besieged. Fergus comes to relieve them, but two late. All but three men on each side are dead, including Cormac, his foster-son. --Nicknack009 (talk) 07:03, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

here's Volume 21 of Revue Celtique, where Whitley Stokes edited and translated the story. --Nicknack009 (talk) 07:04, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]