Talk:Sveneld

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Halo I write article Sveneld in Polish wiki. I have question; from where (title article or book) originate Gumilev theory of Sveneld?--Polelum 14:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

His name

Does anybody have a clue as to where the name Sveneld comes from? The only similar name I found on behindthename.com i Svanhild, which is a Norwegian female name meaning "swan-fightress" or "swan battle". That just doesn't make sense. The Scandinavian name Sven means boy. "hild" is battle or fighter (seemingly). "Ald" is "old". "Eld" could mean "fire". Then there is Alvin,, from a medieval form of both the Old English names ÆLFWINE and ÆÐELWINE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.40.128.194 (talk) 19:04, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm Norwegian, able to read Norse to some extent. There are some clues to the name Sveinaldr; Sveneld seems to be a more modern form, possibly Swedish or Danish. The Norse form is Sveinaldr, allthough we cannot exclude variations. In Rigstula Sveinn is one of the 12 names of the children of Jarl (Earl) and Erna (Earnia). It is interesting that all those names seem to be quite specifically concepts for kids. Barn, for instant, a brother of Sveinn, and Son, is still the name for child. Sveinn, or 'svenn' is still a word in Norwegian, and Scandinavian, meaning 'apprentice'. A disciple is known as 'læresvein'. The latter part of the name 'aldr' signifies 'age' as suggested, or time, period, yet it is pretty wide term appearing in many contexts. A quite funny one is in the name of the norn Véralda', whose name reappears in a contracted form in English as 'World'. 'Aldr', or 'alda', according to Dictionary of Old Norse Prose ( https://onp.ku.dk/onp/onp.php?o1572 ) may also signify waves, or force, still the notion of cycle is maybe the most prevalent, or the power of return, the real thing. This suffix, both in names and words, is appearing very often. There's no obvious connection with 'swan', except for some possible ancient Indo-European notion of 'something exact', because there's a Norse adverb 'svana', 'svona', or 'sona' which is translated 'thus'; 'her svana' means 'just here'. It is not particularly likely that these names, Svein, or Sveinald, were associated with swans, as Svanhildr quite obviously was. By the way, it is funny and quite wrong that so many words from the Norse are explained as referencing to war and weapons. Hildr, for instant, which undoubtably has a strong significance in regard of 'battle', yet diving a bit deeper it seems to be about sound, at least according to the fascinating Norse-Norwegian-Icelandic dictionary called Lexicon Poeticum (from 1860). Whether it signified the noise of the battle, or something more ritualized, the art of the battle cry, or something more musical, is of course a matter of speculation. 'Å hylle', or Danish 'hylde' is to the act of applauding, praise, as in honouring the winner.

Apart from this I have a question as well.

I wonder if Sveinald and Sviatoslav ever is mentioned in the same source?

According to my family tree, direct anchestor 30 generation above, Grand Prince Vladimir Sviatoslavitsch of the Grand Principality of Kyiv is also known as King Valdemar Sveinaldsson of Garðariki. Grand Prince Sviatoslav Igorovitsch is known as Sveinald Ivarrsson, son of Hrœrekr, aka Rurik. It is of course not unlikely that the Sveinald refered to in this article is another person, unrelated to the Rurikids, even though the name Sveinald's Slavic form still may be Sviatoslav. A myheritage family-tree genealogy is of course not a proper source, but of course of interest to figure out if this conflation of Sveinald and Sviatoslav is unsubstantiated? Xactnorge (talk) 02:26, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All mentions in the PVL

For future reference. Based on Ostrowski & Birnbaum 2014 + Cross&SW 1953.

s.a. 6453 (945)
- 54.17 Свѣнелжи Svěnelzhi [genitive, plural]
- 55.12 Свѣнелдъ Svěneldŭ [nominative]
s.a. 6454 (946)
- 58.7 Свѣньлдъ Svěnĭldŭ [nominative]
s.a. 6479 (971)
- 72.19 Свѣналъдѣ Svěnalŭdě [locative]
- 73.22 Свѣналдъ Svěnaldŭ [nominative]
s.a. 6480 (972)
- 74.8 Свѣналдъ Svěnaldŭ [nominative]
s.a. 6483 (975)
- 74.12 Свѣналъдичю Svěnalŭdichju [instrumental?] "son of Svěnalŭd[ŭ]"
- 74.15 Свѣналдичь Svěnaldichĭ [nominative] "son of Svěnald[ŭ]"
- 74.18 Свѣналдъ Svěnaldŭ [nominative]
- 75.9 Свѣналъду Svěnalŭdu [dative]

It's noticeable that his name's spelling has not yet stabilised in the copies for the 940s events, but for the 970s there is a consistent majority for Свѣналдъ. Curiously, Ipa/Xle begin spelling it as свѣнгелдъ / свенгелдъ Svěngeldŭ / Svenheldŭ, but that can be disregarded. I think there is a clear majority for Svenald. NLeeuw (talk) 11:02, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]