Talk:Soda inermis

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Food and Drink task list:

To edit this page, select here

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink:

Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt
Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar
Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish
Participate in project-related deletion discussions.
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
Provide photographs and images for Category:Wikipedia requested images of food
Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section

Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

Plants Mid‑importance

	Plants portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of plants and botany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PlantsWikipedia:WikiProject PlantsTemplate:WikiProject Plantsplant articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Vacuole#Plants|vacuole]] The anchor (#Plants) is no longer available because it was deleted by a user before.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

Reorganized article to include material on soda ash

Just a note to explain some changes I've made. I added some text to indicate the importance of this plant as the original source of "soda ash," and the origin of the name sodium for one of the chemical elements. I substituted a photo of Salsola soda growing in its habitat in the taxonomy box, and moved the good photo of the harvested vegetable into the body of the article. I liked the discussion of cultivation and of culinary use, and collected this material into a separate section.EAS 02:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Botanical Description

I've quoted the highly technical botanical description from "Flora of North America." The quote is a bit lengthier than I would like for copyright reasons. Editing to make this description more readable, and less of a direct quote, would be very desirable.EAS 05:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Robertson and Clemants describe the species as follows: "Herbs, 5-70 cm, glabrous. The stems are erect or ascending, branched from base or nearly so; branches straight or slightly arcuate (proximal ones sometimes almost prostrate). The leaves (especially proximal ones) mostly opposite; blade linear, usually more than 1.5 mm wide in herbarium specimens, fleshy, distinctly swollen or ovate at base, apex mucronulate, not spinose. Inflorescences distinctly interrupted, 1-flowered; bracts alternate or almost opposite, not imbricate, horizontally reflexed at maturity, swollen at base, abruptly narrowing into mucronulate nonspinose apex. Flowers: bracteoles distinct, not adnate to perianth segments; perianth segments wingless or with rudimental triangular tubercles at maturity, margins crenate or pectinate-ciliate apically, glabrous; fruiting perianth ca. 3-6(-7) mm diam. 2n = 18."

The Jepson Manual describes the species as: "Ann. 15-45 cm, slender to rounded, fleshy, gen glabrous. LF 6-55 mm, narrowly oblong; base wing-margined; tip rigid, +/- acute; margin becoming +/- white translucent. INFL: bract lanceolate to ovate; base wing-margined, tip rigid, +/- acute, margin white-translucent. FL: calyx 3.5-5 mm, fleshy, outer sepals with wings < 1.5 mm, inner short-tubercled. Mudflats, open areas in salt marshes; < 50 m. n CCO (San Francisco Bay); native to s Eur."^[1]

From [1]: "This annual, succulent plant can grow into small shrubs up to 2 feet tall (sometimes called sub-shrubs). It has fleshy green leaves with either green or red stems. The flowers are very tiny and grow out of the base of the leaves near the stem. It grows in the same places as pickleweed but does not have jointed leaves and stems."

From [2]: Salsola soda, a dicot in the family Chenopodiaceae, is an annual herb that is not native to California; it was introduced from elsewhere and naturalized in the wild."

^ Jepson, Willis Linn (1993). The Jepson manual: higher plants of California, James C. Hickman, editor (Berkely: University of California Press, 1993), p. 514. ISBN 0520082559

Speculations on sodium sequestration

Here's a speculation that needs researching. The advantages of plant-derived soda ash for both glassmaking and for soapmaking derive from the relatively high concentration of sodium carbonate over potassium carbonate. This suggests that the sodium concentration (overall) in the tissues of Salsola soda and some other saltworts can be much larger than the potassium concentration; for simplicity, let's guess it's 10:1. This despite the fact that potassium is essential to plant growth, and sodium is toxic. Further, my understanding is that there are specific biochemical processes in the roots of plants to bring in potassium, but that sodium slips in either passively (by direct diffusion) or accidentally (by occasionally fooling the potassium pathway). So, overall, it seems that these saltworts must have the ability to live in soils with very low ratios of potassium to sodium ions. It would be interesting to know this ratio (1000:1?), and to compare it with the ratio for glycophytes (which must have been studied).EAS 21:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Historical information about sources of soda ash

McCray Book

The website http://www.lifeinitaly.com/murano/murano-history-2.asp indicates that Salsola soda was a source of Levant soda ash; it gives as a reference: McCray, W. Patrick (1999). Glassmaking in Renaissance Venice: The Fragile Craft (Ashgate Publishing (September 1999)). ISBN: 0754600505.EAS 07:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Porcher Book

Here is a section describing Salsola soda from http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/porcher/porcher.html .

(title page) Resources of the Southern Fields and Forests, Medical, Economical, and Agricultural. Being also a Medical Botany of the Confederate States; with Practical Information on the Useful Properties of the Trees, Plants, and Shrubs

Porcher, Francis Peyre, Surgeon P. A. C. S.

xxv, 601 p., ill.

CHARLESTON: STEAM-POWER PRESS OF EVANS & COGSWELL, No. 3 Broad Street.

1863.

Call number 3041 Conf. (Rare Book Collection, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill)

Page 133:

Salsola soda. Barilla plant. I would particularly advise the planting in the Confederate States of this plant (cultivated so largely in Spain, Sicily, and Sardinia), on account of its great value in the ready manufacture of crude soda--which is now supplanting, on account of its cheapness, the use of potash in the manufacture of soap. Beside, soda gives a hard soap. According to the analysis of Uŕe, "good barilla contains twenty per cent. of real alkali, associated with muriates and sulphates of lime, soda," etc. Caustic lyes made from it are used in the finishing process of hard soap manufacture.

The Salsola kali, L. Saltwort. S. Caroliniana of Walt. It grows in Georgia, and northward; and I have little doubt is rich in soda, and may be made of great use to us in the production of this most important product.

The barillas, Ure says, "always contain a small proportion of potash, to which their peculiar value, in making a less brittle or more plastic hard soap than the fictitious sodas, may, with great probability, be ascribed."

I will give the method of preparing soda from the Salsola: "Of manufactured soda, the variety most anciently known is barilla, the incinerated ash of the Salsola soda. This plant is cultivated with great care by the Spaniards, especially in the vicinity of Alicant. The seed is sown in light, low soils, which are embanked toward the sea-shore, and furnished with sluices for admitting an occasional overflow of salt water. When the plants are ripe, the crop is cut down and dried; the seeds are rubbed out, and preserved; the rest of the plant is burned in rude furnaces, at a temperature just sufficient to cause the ashes to enter into a state of semifusion, so as to concrete on cooling into cellular masses, moderately compact," etc. "Another mode of manufacturing crude soda is by burning sea-weed into kelp."

EAS 07:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Porcher seems to be referring to Andrew Ure, who invited an "alkali meter" that determined the alkali fraction of soda ash and potash materials. See: "Andrew Ure, F.R.S., and the Philosophy of Manufactures," W. V. Farrar, Notes and Records of the Royal Society of London, Vol. 27, No. 2. (Feb., 1973), pp. 299-324. Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0035-9149%28197302%2927%3A2%3C299%3AAUFATP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-H .EAS 17:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clow Book

Clow, Archibald and Clow, Nan L. (1952). Chemical Revolution, (Ayer Co Pub, June 1952). ISBN: 0836919092 .

Excerpt from p. 66: "Crude alkali (barilla) was made by burning Salsola soda, particularly on the eastern shores of Spain where it was cultivated in the huerta of Murthia.¹" EAS 07:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

American Philosophical Society

"A Catalogue of Such Foreign Plants as Are Worthy of Being Encouraged in the American Colonies, for the Purposes of Medicine, Agriculture, and Commerce," Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, Vol. 1. (Jan. 1, 1769 - Jan. 1, 1771), pp. 255-266. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0065-9746%2817690101%2F17710101%291%3A1%3C255%3AACOSFP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-3

This "catalogue" notes Salsola soda's use in the production of barilla (soda ash); see p. 256. The catalogue is actually a reprinting of a pamphlet from John Ellis, FRS.EAS 22:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Culinary uses

Good Italian website showing (with photos) the preparation of barba di frate as a hot vegetable: http://www.coquinaria.it/archivio/fotogrammi/agretti/testo.html EAS 17:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Miscellaneous websites referring to Salsola soda

Good photos! Will include web-addresses in "external links" of article. Copyright status for inclusion of photos in Wikipedia? http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/ZI5832.HTM http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/ZI1379.HTM EAS 19:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Very old (German) discussion of soda ash & glassworking (Georg Agricola): http://www2.hu-berlin.de/glasblower/pdf/Georg%20Agricola.pdf EAS 19:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Biodesalinating Companion Plants

Salsola soda and some other halophytes are being researched as "biodesalinating" companion plants. In addition to the reference in the main article, see [3], which discusses use of Suaeda salsa as a companion plant.EAS 18:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 21:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Jepson, Willis Linn (1993). The Jepson manual: higher plants of California, James C. Hickman, editor (Berkely: University of California Press, 1993), p. 514. ISBN 0520082559

[1]