Talk:Sacking of Osceola

Military history: North America / United States / American Civil War

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Missouri

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Time Travel

According to Civil War on the Missouri-Kansas border By Donald L. Gilmore following the death from enemy fire of an officer Lane tried and executed 9 prisoners of war on Sept 16 a week before he entered Osceola on the 23rd. Nitpyck (talk) 07:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Josie Wales

No civilians were reportedly killed or raped in the Osceola raid, the Osceola attack was with 1,200 troops, and Bloody Bill Anderson was not active in Missouri until '63 nearly 2 years after the Osceola raid; I think that section should go unless a citation can be located.Nitpyck (talk) 06:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I put a citation on it. The movie is greatly fictionalized but it's hook is Osceola. Americasroof (talk) 09:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The movie was adapted from the novel The Rebel Outlaw: Josey Wales (also published with the title Gone to Texas). In the book Josey's wife and child die in the spring of 1858 in Cass County. Osceola is never mentioned in the novel or the movie. It would be interesting to find where the idea that it is connected with the sack of Osceola came from. But a cite is a cite. Nitpyck (talk) 22:10, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you for all of the reasons stated. Citation or not, it is a dubious comparison that feeds a popular cultural misconception vs the actual historical record. There are numerous examples of these kinds of exaggerations being used to create a revisionist Southern history at odds with the documented events. In this instance, the fabrication in Josey Wales is made that Lane's men were murdering women and children in Osceola. (George Caleb Bingham's propaganda painting is another.) In order to restore NPOV, the movie's exaggeration must be noted.Red Harvest (talk) 17:02, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, looking at this further, both of the cites for the Osceola link are simply web pages. Neither of them states a specific source for the Osceola/Josey Wales claim. One doesn't list an author and does not state that Osceola was the basis for the beginning of Josey Wales. In fact, it's main page says that it uses Wikipedia as one of its sources--a circular reference in this case, so if it did make such a claim it would be irrelevant. The other does have an author listed (with a PhD) But he points out the non-historical nature of the film: "I really dislike films that take a true life psychopathic killer, such as Jesse James and Blood Bill Anderson, and turn them into heroic figured. The film merely uses the names of Anderson, Missouri and Kansas to provide a thin veneer of history for a tale that is totally fictional." and a few sentences later "But if you ignore the history angle, the movie is a good western." Therefore I'm removing the Josey Wales paragraph and both of these citations. If someone can provide a citation from a non-dubious source for the link of the movie to Osceola specifically, and address the NPOV concern, then the paragraph could be reinstated.Red Harvest (talk) 17:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]