Talk:Russian occupations of Beirut

Copy edit

@Fitzcarmalan: and others. Greetings Borsoka and others. I am here from GOCE to copy edit this rather fine looking article. If I do anything you don't like, or don't understand, feel free to flag it up here. My first query: It needs an infobox. Would you like to do this or would you prefer me to? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:18, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for taking over. I'm not the biggest fan of infoboxes, to be honest. But I would gladly add one if that stands in the way of a GAN. How about two very brief boxes in the "First" and "Second" occupation sections? Fitzcarmalan (talk) 19:51, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

First bombardment of Beirut
Date 18 June 1772–23 June 1772 Location Beirut Result Occupation of the town until June 28
Belligerents
Imperial Russian Navy	Druze garrison

Second bombardment of Beirut
Date 2 August 1773–10 October 1773 Location Beirut Result Occupation of the town until late January or early February 1774
Belligerents
Imperial Russian Navy Shihab clan Zaydani clan	Jazzar's garrison

Posting them here so I don't conflict with your edits. Feel free to add them anytime you wish. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 19:59, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

I suggest adding the second one right after the table. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 20:01, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

You need a cite immediately after ""new force of Western penetration in the Middle East." (Aftermath)

I have put the infoboxes in. Can I suggest that you leave them for a week or two and see if you can get used to them. (Personally I wouldn't pick up a GAN article without an infobox. If I did I would give it a quick fail.)

First copy edit run through finished. I will leave it a day or two and than go through fine tuning. Let me know if there are any changes you don't like. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:28, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Ah. I see what you mean about the infobox locations. Can I suggest putting the second one immediately under "Second occupation" rather than under the list of ships. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:54, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

I previewed it, but it seems to be messing with the table somehow (as in pushing it downwards), though it depends on the type of screen you're using. I feel like it's more appropriate right next to the paragraph which discusses the actual bombardment. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 22:04, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

(ec) You mean use the same reference twice in a row? I've relocated the boxes to the relevant sections and used additional sources for the commanders' full names, since they were only mentioned by their last names in the original sources. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 21:58, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

I mean consider moving the second infobox so that the article looks like this. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:07, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

You need a cite immediately after ""new force of Western penetration in the Middle East." (Aftermath) - I was referring to this part. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 22:42, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry. Yes. WP:MILCITE - "Citations". Gog the Mild (talk) 23:11, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

I think that I am done. Ping me if there is anything you would like me to look at. Good luck with the article. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:38, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

All good now. Thanks again for reviewing this. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 15:01, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Russian occupations of Beirut/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Catlemur (talk · contribs) 23:10, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

I will start the review shortly.--Catlemur (talk) 23:10, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Lead

• No issues

Background

• Briefly mention why the war broke out.

• Y Done Fitzcarmalan (talk) 06:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Mention that the a Greek revolt did indeed break out (Orlov revolt).

• Y Done Fitzcarmalan (talk) 06:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

First occupation

• The Russian article on the Archipelago Expedition contains additional details on the occupation including Marko Ivanovich Voinovich's role. I will try to incorporate some of that information.

End of Ali Bey's revolt

• Please clarify what ":287" means on reference number 18.

• Y Done Fitzcarmalan (talk) 06:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Second occupation

• Wikilink and clearly define the connection between Zahir and Shihab and their respective clans in the main body of the text.

• Please clarify what you mean by that. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 06:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

What I meant to say is that there are two clans mentioned in the section's infobox that are not otherwise mentioned in the main body of the article. I suppose they are Zahir's and Shihab's respective clans but as of right now this is simply implied instead of being clearly stated.--Catlemur (talk) 19:25, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I chose to delink them instead for the following reasons: a) The sources I used make no mention of "clans"; b) I just found it suitable to have them linked for our readers should they find the articles interesting to browse through; c) the Zaydanis[1] and the Shihabs[2] weren't homogeneous entities, and there was a lot of infighting within those clans; and d) I had no intention of including an infobox in the first place. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 04:56, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• If possible add a painting/modern day image of one of the fortifications/ships involved in the conflict.

• I'm not really aware of any. Maybe some of the ships involved in Beirut can be found in this or other Aivazovsky paintings, since Anderson mentions that the Sv. Nikolai and the Nadezhda participated in the battles of Chesma and Chios respectively. But I don't know where I could find any details about those paintings. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 06:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Aftermath and legacy

• The Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca opened up new trade routes into the Ottoman Empire for ships sailing under the Russian flag including the Middle East, please mention that.

• Y Done Fitzcarmalan (talk) 06:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@Catlemur: Since Russian is your native language, can you help me figure out Perminov's first name. The "P." doesn't really work for me. Du Quenoy transliterates his work as following:

P. Perminov, “Tri epizoda iz istorii russko-arabskikh sviazei v XVIII veke. Epizod vtoroi: vziatie Beiruta,” Aziia i Afrika segodnia 8 (1987): 56–58.

Couldn't find the name on Google though. Can you try typing it in Russian? I tried Google Translate but it didn't work either. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 06:39, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I found a historian named Петр Владимирович Перминов (Petr Perminov) who published a work on the Hospitaliers in 1991 this is most probably him, however all references to Tri epizoda list the author simply as P. Perminov.--Catlemur (talk) 19:25, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I did a dup and copyvio check and they seem fine. I will try to incorporate information from the Archipelago Expedition article sometime later. The article covers the topic in a neutral manner, in reasonable detail and is reliably sourced. Overall it meets the GA criteria and is a pass, congratulations.--Catlemur (talk) 10:49, 19 May 2018 (UTC)