Talk:Rubén Darío

?

can someone summarize whsat his poem "song of spring in the fall" please

Dario was married twice: first to Rafaela Contreras (not Contrera) and then to Rosario Murillo. I haven't the time to disentangle things; maybe someone else can do it, particularly with respect to the time frame.Alloco1 16:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe I've disentangled that, and also filled in his life up to the point where he burst onto the literary scene. If someone wants to expand this article, I believe the two sources I've used contain a great deal more that could be used to flesh it out. - Jmabel | Talk 05:19, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Cut

I cut the following: "Rubén Darío was born with a thirst for expanding his horizons far beyond his immediate and beloved Nicaragua. He wanted to explore the rest of America and the world. Unfortunately, his economic circumstances did not allow for this to happen during his childhood." Pure hype, no content. And, no, he didn't travel as a child, but he was a published author at age 12, hardly a deprived child. - Jmabel | Talk 04:50, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

You kind of misunderstood the part where it says: "Rubén Darío was born with a thirst for expanding his horizons far beyond his immediate and beloved Nicaragua..." The contributer did not say Darío travel abroad as a child, but that he wanted to expand his horizons beyond Nicaragua, which is not the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinete (talk • contribs) 07:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Pequeña

Recently, a quotation was altered from "Si pequeña es la patria, uno grande la sueña" to "Si la patria es pequeña, uno grande la sueña." I've seen it quoted both ways, and googling wasn't much help (except to amuse me by showing many pages that misattribute the quotation to García Marquez. Does anyone have a good (probably non-web) citation on this? - Jmabel | Talk 05:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

And now it's back to "Si pequeña es la patria…", which frankly sounds better, so I'm guessing it is correct. - Jmabel | Talk 05:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

This keeps going back and forth, and still lacks decent citation. - Jmabel | Talk 16:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I retract my previous post because:

RETORNO

El retorno a la tierra natal ha sido tan
sentimental, y tan mental, y tan divino,
que aun las gotas del alba cristalinas están
en el jazmín de ensueño, de fragancia y de trino.

Por el Anfión antiguo y el prodigio del canto
se levanta una gracia de prodigio y encanto
que une carne y espíritu, como en el pan y el vino.

En el lugar en donde tuve la luz y el bien,
¿qué otra cosa podría sino besar el manto
a mi Roma, mi Atenas o mi Jeusalén?

Exprimidos de idea, y de orgullo y cariño,
de esencia de recuerdo, de arte de corazón,
concreto ahora todos mis ensueños de niño
sobre la crin anciana de mi amado León.

Bendito el dromedario que a través del desierto
condujera al Rey Mago, de aureolada sien,
y que se dirigía por el camino cierto
en que el astro de oro conducía a Belén.

Amapolas de sangre y azucenas de nieve
he mirado no lejos del divino laurel,
y he sabido que el vino de nuestra vida breve
precipita hondamente la ponzoña y la hiel.

Mas sabe el optimista, religioso y pagano,
que por César y Orfeo nuestro planeta gira,
y que hay sobre la tierra que llevar en la mano,
dominadora siempre, o la espada, o la lira.

El paso es misterioso. Los mágicos diamantes
de la corona o las sandalias de los pies
fueron de los maestros que se elevaron antes,
y serán de los genios que triunfarán después.

Parece que Mercurio llevara el caduceo
de manera triunfal en mi dulce país,
y que brotara pura, hecha por mi deseo,
en cada piedra una mágica flor de lis.

Por atavismo griego o por fenicia influencia,
siempre he sentido en mí ansia de navegar,
y Jasón me ha legado su sublime experiencia
y el sentir en mi vida los misterios del mar.

¡Oh, cuántas veces, cuántas veces oí los sones
de las sirenas líricas en los clásicos mares!
¡Y cuántas he mirado tropeles de tritones
y cortejos de ninfas ceñidas de azahares!

Cuando Pan vino a América, en tiempos fabulosos
en que había gigantes, y conquistaban Pan
y Baco tierra incógnita, y tigres y molosos
custodiaban los templos sagrados de Copán,
se celebraban cultos de estrellas y de abismos;
se tenía una sacra visión de Dios. Y era
ya la vital conciencia que hay en nosotros mismos
de la magnificencia de nuestra Primavera.

Los atlántidas fueron huéspedes nuestros. Suma
revelación un tiempo tuvo el gran Moctezuma,
y Hugo vio en Momotombo órgano de verdad.
A través de las páginas fatales de la Historia,
nuestra tierra está hecha de vigor y de gloria,
nuestra tierra está hecha para la Humanidad.

Pueblo vibrante, fuerte, apasionado, altivo;
pueblo que tiene la conciencia de ser vivo,
y que, reuniendo sus energías en haz
portentoso, a la Patria vigoroso demuestra
que puede bravamente presentar en su diestra
el acero de guerra o el olivo de paz.

Cuando Dante llevaba a la Sorbona ciencia
y su maravilloso corazón florentino,
creo que concretaba el alma de Florencia,
y su ciudad estaba en el libro divino.

Si pequeña es la Patria, uno grande la sueña.
Mis ilusiones, y mis deseos, y mis
esperanzas, me dicen que no hay patria pequeña.
Y León es hoy a mí como Roma o París.

Quisiera ser ahora como el Ulises griego
que domaba los arcos, y los barcos y los
destinos. ¡Quiero ahora deciros ¡hasta luego!

porque no me resuelvo a deciros adiós!

Apparently, it became 'Si la patria es...' in the popular voice. I am not sure, since he could have another piece with the other constructions, but if the other construction is merely word of mouth, then I learned something just now! Brusegadi (talk) 10:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

JMabel:

Whoever made the correction was right because the actual phrase should read: "Si la patria es pequeña, uno grande la sueña...", as it is correctly written on Dario's "Azul". So, it is not a matter of personal choice _or what it sounds right to one's ear_ but a matter of fact.

That is, in Spanish this phrase is a rhyme and for that reason the words at the end of each part of the phrase should have a matching ending. Thus, both "pequeña" should match with "sueña" at the end of each part as a rhythmic requirement.

When it comes to you seeing it written both ways, that does not mean there is some kind of "strange literary ambiguity" on this respect, because there is simply none. Meaning, this fact is backed by books, literary figures, educated people, and any Spanish speaking person with good reading habits, a good memory and by everyday media reinforcing!

Now, the phrase was misattributed to García Márquez as a terrible faux pas by a female university student in Nicaragua's UAM (Universidad Americana) and published in the papers and, from there, it went into cyberspace, where some people chose to believe what they wanted to believe: which is totally misunderstanding that student's essay crime; equivalent to misquoting Walt Whitman in the English speaking world!

Even though these words might mean nothing to you because you just want cold, hard facts without any kind of reviews or preamble, it is important to let you know that _even though the education system in the US is strictly Euro-centric and covers very little Spanish literature, even when Spanish culture is universally accepted as one of the most influential in the world, and since you are covering the greatest, modern Spanish speaking, literary figure_ from professionals to the average citizen know the phrase belongs to the Prince of Spanish Letters (Darío); who was around and long gone way before García Márquez even existed... For this, check out www.juarezpolanco.com and enter Rubén Darío.

Now, googling around will not make it; as you definitely noticed. That is why, university professors question this practice as too easy, too biased, and perhaps, too unprofessional. Therefore, they recommend students going to any library to do their research while reserving the Internet for up-to-date pictures or just basic, common-knowledge facts like bios, geography, trivia or the everchanging sciences.

However, when it comes to literature, one has to definitely go to a good library like the Library of Congress, in Washington DC, which has 3064 subjects and books _both in Spanish and English_ on Darío. Or just go to any Barnes & Noble, with around 136.

Therefore, as a good Nicaraguan, I would definitely recommend you to try to read Darío's work in English, so you would have a better idea about this master's work, which it would make you a better grounded person on America's (Western Hemisphere) literary heritage! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinete (talk • contribs) 08:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Senior, parece que popularmente la frase se conoce como la escribe usted (asi la conocia yo) pero en el poema citado arriba aparece a como dice Mabel. Brusegadi (talk) 10:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Brusegadi: I've also seen that version but experts like Pablo A Cuadra (poet, writer), Valle Castillo (writer) or Jorge E Arellano (head of the Nicaraguan Chapter of the Royal Spanish Academy of Language) conclude that _based on older editions and on the fact that Darío was a master of rhyme_ would not have made that kind of careless mistake. Therefore, your example is a newer version with a typographic error that has become carelessly popularized.

For this, you can check out any book on Rubén Darío by Jorge E Arellano. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinete (talk • contribs) 06:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but thats not what the poem says. Also, the style is conserved, but in the poem it is internal as opposed to external, probably in an effort to conserve the metric. Until you find a nice source for it, it will stay the way it is. Also, we should remove citations because adding them may be out of line with MOS. Brusegadi (talk) 18:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Non-neutrality

"His poetry brought back vigor to the stale, monotonous Spanish-language poetry of the time."

Subjective much? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 160.39.210.135 (talk) 21:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

no mention of his son

this article has no mention of Ruben Darios son whom when Contreras,the mother dies short after giving birth, was sent to live with an uncle and sent ruben dario into what some considered to be depresion and a serious drinking problem....at least that is what my father had told me long ago, about him....he was my fathers great grand father. I'll double check with him and get more info.

Read, "El poeta pregunta por Stella" it is a poem believed to be about the mother of the child you talk about above. Dario had other kids later in life, in Spain. Stella was the literary name sometimes used by the mother of the kid. You can find the poem here. You are right, the article skips over much of his life. I will see if I still have my books when I get back home (long time from now) or I will make the likely futile attempt at finding stuff online. Spanish wiki, here I go! Take care, Brusegadi (talk) 10:31, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Its here It does not talk about the dipression part, but it was taught to me in school, so it might be true, or at least a theory! Look for Rafaela Contreras. Maybe I should translate this bit now that I have vacation. Brusegadi (talk) 10:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite

I will try to translate the Dario article from the Spanish wikipedia. I did the intro today, and I will try to write the bio tomorrow. I will probably need help with matters of style. Brusegadi (talk) 04:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I had commented out the following:

read before a group including conservative Nicaraguan President Joaquín Zavala. His poem "El Libro" did not go over well. President Zavala said to him, "My son, if you so write against the religion of your fathers and their homeland now, what will become of you if you go to Europe and learn worse things?" As a result, his goal of a European education was thwarted.

I was going to blend it with what I have but decided against it after I noticed that the site is dead, and that the source is not as reliable as the other sources we are using, such as the autobiography and biographer's words. Thus, mixing sources would create a false impression that the statement sourced with the inferior source is as credible as those source with superior sources. I go for consistency. Brusegadi (talk) 11:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I also removed:

Darío traveled to El Salvador, where he met Francisco Gavidia, who introduced him to Castilian and French poetry that would so influence his own writing. While still in his teens, he worked in the National Library of Nicaragua.

the refs may be worth exploring. Brusegadi (talk) 13:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Another piece of text that may later be needed:

He later moved to Chile at the age of 19. There he published an unsuccessful first novel, Emelina and fell under the protection of Pedro Balmaceda, who helped him to publish his book of poems, Azul... in 1888. This 134-page, privately printed book, printed in Valparaiso, a city that at the time was not a notable intellectual center, was nonetheless, in González Echevarría's words, "a turning point in Spanish-language literature." Initial reviews were disparaging, but Spanish critic Juan Valera of the Real Academia Española launched the young poet's career, praising his poems, although sharing other critics' disparagement of his degree of adoption of French models.

Note that the above is probably mistaken in that Balmaceda helped him publish Azul. I believe he helped him with Abrojos. It was Eduardo and Eduardo who helped him with Azul. I will make sure of this thought. Brusegadi (talk) 04:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

References

Edit request on 29 October 2012

Please complete the bibliographical information. The first item: Acereda, Alberto. "Modernism, Rubén Darío, and the Poetics of Despair". Should incorporate the other coauthor of the book, Rigoberto Guevara. Therefore: Acereda, Alberto, and Rigoberto Guevara: "Modernism, Rubén Darío, and the Poetics of Despair". Josebakm (talk) 00:19, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Done: I was able to verify this on Amazon. In the future when requesting a change like this please provide a reliable source to back your claims. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:50, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 January 2013

The translation of the fragment of the poem "A Roosevelt", currently ends with the verse "that still prays to Jesus Christ and that still speaks Spanish". A better translation - better because it retains the meaning, also has a better poetic metric - would be "still prays to Jesus Christ and still speaks Spanish". (The edit that should be made is to take out both 'that' words from the verse). Editing is disabled for this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guatebus (talk • contribs) 02:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Jail

According to my family which was at one point among the super-wealthy of Nicaragua and were friends with Rubén, Rubén was secretively arrested and imprisoned by the Somoza regime for writing about the oppression of poor and indigenous peoples. Since they were wealthy, my tatarabuelo was able to get him out of jail. That's all I really know about that and since I can't actually verify it in any way, I figured I'd just put it here instead. If someone wanted to investigate this that'd be pretty neat– I've tried and I couldn't find anything. -- SatanicSanta 04:27, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

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