Talk:Roger Farmer (American football)

Roger Farmer (American football) has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: September 30, 2024. (Reviewed version).

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

College football Low‑importance

	College football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of college football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.College footballWikipedia:WikiProject College footballTemplate:WikiProject College footballcollege football articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

National Football League Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject National Football League, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the NFL on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.National Football LeagueWikipedia:WikiProject National Football LeagueTemplate:WikiProject National Football LeagueNational Football League articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Caribbean: Barbados Low‑importance

	Caribbean portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the Caribbean on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.CaribbeanWikipedia:WikiProject CaribbeanTemplate:WikiProject CaribbeanCaribbean articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Barbados (assessed as Low-importance).

New York City Low‑importance

	New York City portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

GA Review

Passed. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:42, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Roger Farmer (American football)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: BeanieFan11 (talk · contribs) 21:58, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: WikiOriginal-9 (talk · contribs) 13:15, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Any info on his parents? I wonder if he is actually Barbadian like the lead says (Barbadian nationality law). Is there a source that says that?
- The only thing I've found is just that he was born there. I changed it to "Barbadian-born" – does that work?
"later had a stint with the Baltimore Colts" Offseason stint
- Added.
Any further info on when he moved to US. Body just says "later".
- Haven't found anything.
"an National Association" Change an to a.
- Fixed.
Add first-team All-American and All-HAAC to infobox.
- Added.
Link training camp. There is a specific article just for NFL training camp.
- Added.
Change Jets tenure in infobox to 1979. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:15, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@WikiOriginal-9: Changed tenure as well. I think I addressed everything. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, that looks good. Nice work! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Roger Farmer was the first NFL player from Barbados?

Source: PFR

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Celie Ellis Turner
Comment: QPQ will be done within 24 hours.

Improved to Good Article status by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 257 past nominations.

BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Starting review. Updates to follow. Ktin (talk) 15:22, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article meets eligibility criteria. Recently promoted to GA status. No issues with tone / neutrality nor with plagiarism. Hook is reasonably attractive. Sourced to a NFL record sheet / database. At some point I thought DYK frowned upon hooks like "the first x from y". But, I am not able to find that discussion. Nevertheless, I am happy to mark this hook approved. That said, if the nominator wants to attempt a different hook, I am available for a review. Handing this back to the nominator. QPQ done. Ktin (talk) 15:39, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This hook fails the interestingness check in my view. Someone is going to be the first NFL player from Barbados, and so all this is really telling me is that it's a guy named Roger Farmer; there's zero element of surprise. Sdkb ^talk 04:11, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will see if I can come up with an alt hook tomorrow. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could do something like: ALT1 ... that Roger Farmer was among the first two NFL players to come from his high school, to come from his college, and to come from his country? (refs 14/15/16) BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Might be me, but, this is hard to follow as a statement and I personally don't think it is adding to the 'interestingness'. Ktin (talk) 04:39, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There have also been several of these "first NFL player from X" hooks proposed lately. Given the recent pushback against "first" hooks, it might be safer to go with a completely different angle here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ktin, Narutolovehinata5, and Sdkb: Maybe something like ALT2 ... that Roger Farmer made the NFL despite playing in college for small schools that mainly had "terrible records"? ("he went to Eastern Arizona, which had terrible records both years he was there ... In 1976 ... he came to Baker along with several Arizona recruits from junior colleges ... While Farmer started, Baker had a terrible 1976 record") BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:03, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, that works. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:24, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BeanieFan11: There are two things that I am not comfortable with -- 1. What is a "small school"? There is no objective agreed definition and I do not think we should send that phrase to the homepage. 2. Though I see your attempt to add terrible records within double quotes, it still comes across as WP:WIKIVOICE and imo that phrase should not go to the homepage. Ktin (talk) 04:22, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ktin: Would the angle be more acceptable if the quote was attributed rather than being in Wikivoice? Something like:

ALT3 ... that Roger Farmer reached the NFL despite playing for schools that the Salina Journal described as having "terrible records"?
ALT3a ... that Roger Farmer, the first NFL player from Barbados, reached the league despite playing for schools that the Salina Journal described as having "terrible records"?

Other than that, if more information could be found about his personal life and post-NFL career, maybe a new hook based on that could be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]