Talk:Rod of Asclepius

Biblical Reference Date

This passage

Biblical scholars look to the Book of Numbers, in which the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחושתן or נחש הנחושת) was a brass serpent on a pole that God told Moses to erect, saying that anyone bitten [by a snake] would live if they looked at it. This Biblical account is the earliest known record, circa the 13th century BCE  of the pole/serpent combination (though the exact configuration is not known).

Was edited in December to include the text "circa the 13th century BCE", but the change is not supported by the cited source, which dates the actual record to a mix of sources written down over a period between 950 and 500 BCE, several hundred years later than the 13th century even at the earliest date. I previously deleted the 13th century claim with a note explaining that it wasn't supported by the source, but it was reverted by the same user who originally added it. The source claims that the events described in the Biblical book of Exodus are supposed to have occurred in the 13th century, but weren't recorded until much later.

What's more, while double checking the sources prior to writing this talk page section, I noticed the source is about the book of Exodus, not Numbers as claimed in the quoted passage, and does not directly back this being the oldest known record of the symbol, or even mention the specific anecdote at all, on top of using the wrong date and linking to an article about the wrong book. It's possible the user who added the citation cited the wrong link by mistake, but if that's the case it needs to be replaced with the correct citation. I checked the equivalent article about Numbers from the same source as the one provided about Exodus, but it doesn't mention dates at all, merely stating that it continues the narrative from the book of Exodus. There's an additional citation of this pubmed article at the end of the sentence which seems to at least be the source of the "oldest known reference" claim, but it also doesn't back a 13th century date, claiming instead that the biblical story occurred (with no mention of when it was written down, and no citation for the claim beyond the relevant bible passage itself, which also doesn't mention a date) in the 14th century BCE. My inclination at this point would be to reword the entire section to something more neutral and less sweeping in its claims, such as

In the Biblical Book of Numbers, the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחושתן or נחש הנחושת) was a brass serpent on a pole that God told Moses to erect, saying that anyone bitten [by a snake] would live if they looked at it. This Biblical account is another early record of the pole/serpent combination appearing in a medical context (though the exact configuration is not known).

Owyn Merrilin (talk) 06:33, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

That text looks quite a bit better to my eye. Great claims need great evidence and the current text reads like a single editor's WP: synthesis of multiple sources. Unless it can be defended with better evidence pdq, I will support OM's proposed text. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

This can actually be correlated right back to the origin of the Djed Pillar (and flower of life) in Egypt, which itself can be correlated with its appearance at Gobekli Tepi, more than 10,000 years ago, and/or with the Trilithons at Stonehenge, and especially with the notion of the 7 chakra of the Kundalini. This is a set of mnemonics that directly relates human anatomy of the spine/serpent to metrology, and especially the use of 6/5th alternate fibonacci numbers as approximations of PI. Also giving rise to the biggest bigger big standard small smaller smallest notion of the whole being a duality defined by 7 adjective nodes.

It is part of 'two' anatomical metrological diagrams, that were confounded into one with the 3rd eye at some date, that gives rise to the biblical passages...

John 3:14.. Numbers 21:8... 2 Kings 18:4... John 8:28...

The anatomy of the Crucifix of the Christ King, the Orphic Egg & d'Vinci Vitruvian Man: a 6ft high person with 6ft armspan, with a maximum reach of 8ft high, with the arms sweeping out an arc that is 3ft radius, centered upon the clavicles that is 5ft high. The Orphic egg geometry he sits within, that is based upon 3:4:5ft as per the work of Alexander Thom and demonstrated at Carnac. The crossing of the clavicle via the 3rd eye and ashen cross, being the center of a circle with a radius of 5ft romano-egyptian, that is 57.6" Greek with a circumference of 360" as a Sothic year circle using 25/8th as Anthropomorphic Pi, where the circle is squared using 5x5 common greek cubit and 5x5 romano egypian remem (palmipes) diagonal cubits, and the rotated area square sat within an 8x8 grid. aka Checkers and Alquirque as 12 new moons vs 12 full moons.

Geometry 1: The 'Image of God'. These are 10:1 fractals that relate the Hekatompedon diameter Temple with 1 minutes march 3600" circumference (Stonehenge Sarsen Circle ID), to the Orphic Egg based crucifix and its 360" Sothic circle, to the Skull with 36" crossed solar burst around the skull, to the ashen cross marked upon the brow on Ash wednesday with Palm leave ash. This can be extended up to the city squaring the circle of 36000" Greek @ 1:43,200 Earth scale polar elliptical (see John Neal). Which matches the Great pyramid casing extended through the paving to the socket floor, as noted by Flinders Petrie.

Geometry 2: The 'Djed Pillar', 'Rod of Asclepius' & 'Staff of Moses'. Where the Max reach is 8ft high, this is treated as the circle diameter with successive concentric circles scaled by equilateral triangles to half size. 8ft > 4ft > 2ft > 1ft. Here, the spine starting at the coccyx or phallus that divides the 6ft height into two, is matched to the point where the spine enters the brain cavity at 5/6th of the 3ft distance between coccyx and crown of the skull. This 3ft distance is divided by 3x 1ft diameter circle, that are interlocked by two more, to create 6 divisions and 7 nodes/chakras of the spinal colum (Flower of Life). The lowest interlocking ring being that of the 8ft > 1ft concentrics. The 4/6th point being the clavicles that centers the 360" sothic circle noted above.

This 6:5 ratio later became known as the Doric Column. It is exhibited by the trilithons of stonehenge at 12:10 cubits of 144"/7 in Greek 1,555,200,000" and romano-egyptian 1,620,000,000" polar elliptical. The Great Trilithon being a curiosity that uses an 11:10 ratio at 288" Eratosthene-english 1,575,000,000". When it is corrected to the 6:5 ratio via a split lintel suggested by many that surveyed Stonehenge, the heights become 261.818" > 288" > 314.181". This is demonstrating Fibonacci Phi as 144/55 and pi as 6/5 x 144/55 using the 144"/7 cane cubit that are comfirmed by the Virtuvian 'Wheel of the Ancients' using 25/8th Anthropomorphic Pi..

150" @ 1,620,000,000 romano-egyptian = 145.833" @ 1,575,000,000 Eratosthenes English = 144" @ 1,555,200,000 Greek = 140" @ 1,512,000,000" (thus Barley Cane using Barley Cubits of 20" or 30 fingers)

250,000,000" x 2 x 864/275 x 99/100 = 1,555,200,000" & 250,000,000" x 2 x 63/20 = 1,575,000,000". Where the 28 finger cubit, 20 x root 2 cubit and greek cane cubits are scaled by square root 0.98 through the diagonal of squares using 20:20:28 or 21:21:30 fingers.

Notes: Further discussion would entail the relation between the 63/64th wadjet eye, the 12x13 days months and 13 phases (Eucharist round table and last supper), the 5 epgaomenal days, the 40 days of lent, the Fibonacci Pi ratios 3.6, 3.2, 3.15, 22/7, 864/275 and the Great flood in...

Genesis 8:1, 8:2, 8:3, 8:5, 8:8 & 8:13 that relates the 3rd day of the Equinox to Easter Sunday and Noahs day of the Dove. How far down the Rabbit hole do you wish to go ? Michael Saunders (talk) 23:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” Then the Jews replied, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and You will raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple which was His body.

John 2:19... Michael Saunders (talk) 23:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The initial few sentences are very unclear.

The sentence beginning with “in modern times” has an interrupting “although,” which has no closing associated clause 2601:603:2081:4050:2984:10FB:91B0:715E (talk) 20:34, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, I agree. The lead should be a succinct and clear summary of the article. It had become bogged down in subclauses and excess detail. I have pruned it but other editors may feel I have overdone it. If anyone wants to revisit it, I would ask them to remember that en.wikipedia is extensively used by readers with English as a second language. Accordingly, complex nested clauses should be avoided if at all possible. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:18, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Image is in the Bible

The Bible describes the single snake on a pole in bronze God direct Moses to make. Those bitten by a poisonous snake would not die from the poison if they looked at this image. Numbers 21:8,9 2600:1700:BD90:78D0:D49E:8DFF:FE8C:47FB (talk) 19:42, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

We already refer to this passage in Rod of Asclepius#A biblical equivalent. NebY (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Isn't that the Nehushtan? Some kind of cult object for curing snakebites. Dimadick (talk) 21:33, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Image if needed

Rod of Asclepius vector.svg

I replaced a user-generated image file from the {{infobox symbol}} in the Unicode section with a regular glyph from whatever the visitor's default sans-serif system font is. Perhaps someone was seeing tofu and tried to be helpful. If the issue arises again, would whoever feels it necessary please at least use an image that is actually a conservative representation of the symbol? (for example, using File:Rod of Asclepius vector.svg, right). This is the base case and is not a place to run off on a riff. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Note [a] misquoted

Note [a] should read "you marvel at the serpent..." but I cannot fix it because it is a construct I do not understand. 220.240.200.42 (talk) 03:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)