Talk:Rivet

Fashion

Some articles link here trying to refer to a culture or fashion alongside punk, goth and steampunk.

Size

How are rivets measured? Does a 1/8" rivet have a 1/8" radius, diameter, or circumference?

Diameter (of the shank). --Simian, 2005-10-27, 05:06 Z

In the aircraft industry (at least in the United States) rivet size is specified by a number that is a multiple of 1/32 of an inch. The common sizes are 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8. These would be rivets that are 3/32, 1/8, 5/32, 3/16, and 1/4 inches in diameter. For example, a NASM20470AD6 rivet would be a solid rivet with a universal head and a 3/16-inch diameter shank. "NASM20470" indicates the standard that defines the rivet which was known as MS20470 before it was adopted by NAS. "AD" indicates the rivet material which is one of the weaker but easier to drive aluminum alloys. On a drawing, this rivet would be called out as a "BJ6" which is a fastener encoding defined by NAS523.--Jebix (talk) 01:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I have seen in some older patents that "rivet" seems to be used as a term to describe the bending-down of metal by hammering, more than a particular type of fastener. -- User:axh, 2006-09-20, 11:32 EST

I have a friend who is building a headlamp, and at several points, he needs to rivet together two pieces of aluminum. What rivets would be best for that, and how would he use them?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.133.196.235 (talk) 07:14, 28 August 2020 (UTC) 

Picture

Has anybody a picture of a pneumatic rivet hammer looks similar to a Jackhammer.--134.76.234.75 (talk) 12:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Many articles lack images totally, but this one has a profusion. The following image, recently added, I believe is not very helpful:

File:RivetHandtool.jpg

The legend is 'Manual hand-operated riveter.' We are grateful to those who go to the trouble to create images, but they don't work everywhere. For this article I suggest that we are better off with diagrams of how the rivets work, or how they are attached, than more plain photos of the tools used, which typically are puzzling, unless marked up with detailed legends. (Is there a rivet in this picture anywhere?). The naked link to http://www.rivet.com which was added by the same editor is problematic, since the site appears to be a product catalog. It is better to link to a textbook or didactic information. If a commercial site that sells rivets has to be used, then link to a single page that can serve as a reference for a specific claim made in the article. EdJohnston (talk) 16:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

It would be helpful to have some images people have seen before. I like the images at de:Niet because they show more familiar images of rivets in action, such as:

--77.4.232.211 (talk) 20:37, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protection needed?

Nine IP vandal edits in four days suggests a need for this. When editors have to correct multiple vandal edits at one time, content can be lost. (See recent history). Comments? EdJohnston (talk) 15:21, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Self Pierce Riveting

Self Pierce Rivets (often shortened to SPR) are designed to join two or more sheets of material together (usually metal) without the need to have a pre-existing hole - hence the name. As the rivet is driven into the materials it gradually flares within the sheet materials (with the assistance of an upsetting die) locking the material together without piercing the lower material. Typical riveting cycle time ranges from 1 to 4 seconds.

While in use in a number of industries, it is most widely known in the Automobile industry. As more automobile manufacturers look towards weight-saving, self pierce rivets are being used more due to the move towards lighter materials such as Aluminium. Unfortunately Aluminium is more difficult to spot weld than Steel, necessitating the use of self pierce rivets. The most widely publicised example is the Mark 3 Jaguar XJ8 (also known as the X350).

• The above is a small piece on Self Pierce Rivets, based on experience and the following websites to make it 'cite-able' I'm just not that experienced with WP so if someone could add it to the main page correctly with citations I'd appreciate it. Sorry but couldn't find any non-CP images.

http://www.emhart.com/products/spr.asp http://www.henrob.co.uk/languages/english/history.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Co fragment (talk • contribs) 09:40, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Names for blind rivets

"pop rivets" redirects here. but without any explination as to what a pop rivet is in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.17.149.242 (talk) 04:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

In Australia, I've only ever heard of these being referred to as "pop rivets". Obviously referring to how the mandrel pops out of the assembly. Is it worth mentioning this? 59.154.17.6 (talk) 01:47, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Also a common name in the USA - Leonard G. (talk) 03:33, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Now properly noted in the blind rivet section (note that pop rivet redirects here).

The designer of the Zenith line of kit aircraft and owner of the Zenith Aircraft Company has this to say about pop rivets in his article about aircraft design [1].

First of all, let us understand that a "pop" rivet is a blind rivet, but a blind rivet is not necessarily a pop rivet. ("Pop" rivet is a brand name manufactured by USM - United Shoe Machine - and obviously a "shoe" rivet is not ideal for aircraft use.)

Just google "pop rivet" and you find that it is a brand name now owned by Emhart Teknologies a Black & Decker company.--Jebix (talk) 00:57, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

"POP" is a brand of blind rivets (http://www.emhart.com/) and is a registered trademark (#72415924).

Pop is the noise they make when the head breaks from the mandril. If the head pulls out without snapping off, then the rivet diameter is too small for the hole. Bye nature pop rivets are blind. Blind simply means only one operator is needed on one side.202.125.31.66 (talk) 10:29, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

• Note also that United Shoe Machinery didn't make shoes, they made shoe-making machinery. And at times, all sorts of heavy engineering, including tanks. Pop rivets certainly aren't "shoe rivets". Andy Dingley (talk) 10:41, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Q. Are high-strength bolts are a better choice than rivets for many uses?

A. That question can be answered in two ways, in terms of economics and performance. High strength bolts are "A better choice" considering the cost of labor and construction. While they are much more expensive to manufacture, the installed cost is much lower due to the increased safety and reduced efforts required by workers to install bolts. Rivets are a low cost product, but expensive to install. Bolts are a high priced product, but very cost effective to install. Obviously, the cost to install is higher then the cost to produce. As far as performance, there are few products that can match the installed strength, key features, and added benefits of a rivet. On the otherhand, newer technologies are becoming more accepted as a cost effective alternative.

The Older Method - Hot Riveting - The old riveting method required a low cost rivet, to be heated to a mallable temperature at the point of use. This required an oven running at all times during the installtion process (expensive). In addition, these hot rivets would need to be passed to the installers via a throw and catch method, which is dangerous at high heights. During installation, the hot rivet would be pneumatically hammered into place. This action caused the rivet to swell or radially expand within the hole. In addition a mushroomed headform is created on both sides. After it is applied and as the rivet cools, the steel rivet "shrinks" and the two heads squeeze together. This dramatically increases the tension force and the swelling of the rivet in the hole dramatically increases shear load.

The Newer Method - High Strength Bolts - Recently the development of new steels allowed for the use of high strength bolts. The are pre heat treated to a hardness that is capable of supporting the load and they are easy to remove if neccessary. The are easy to transport and easy to install buy using a pneumatic torque control driver. As far as economy the total installed cost is less, however, there are some direct comparisons that cannot be made to rivets. High strength bolts do not swell in the hole and do not shrink as rivets do. Additionally, the torque of the installation tool is very important and if over torqued can damage the threads reducing strength. Bolts and nuts can be removed easily and can also vibrate loose over time. The space between the bolt and the hole wall is a crevace and as a result is difficult to prevent oxidation or rust. As a general rule, high strength bolts can be used as long as they have a tension control feature and is widely accepted as an alternative to riveting.

Only the true test of time will tell its effectiveness. The brooklyn bridge is still standading and is one of the strongest bridges in the world. Rivetpro (talk) 05:05, 29 January 2009 (UTC)RIVETPRO —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rivetpro (talk • contribs) 04:56, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

For steel building skeletons HT bolts need not be an interference fit in the hole. The threads of both nut and bolt must be cleaned before assembly. They are usually tightened with pneumatic tools and threads are easily stripped if not clean. An infamous example is the car park at U Texas. After four stories were completed then entire structure collapsed. Many stripped threads were the cause.

For high stress applications such as truck chassis, bolt shanks must be an interference fit in the hole. This is recommended by manufacturers when a cold rivet is replaced. (Govt regulation often overrides this and only permits cold rivets for auto applications.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.72.236 (talk) 23:39, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Diagrams

size should be explain by digram

This page could use some good diagrams showing the various rivet types in cross-section.--Hooperbloob 04:00, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree that diagrams (especially detailing how blind rivets work) would go a long way towards improving this article. I am NOT suggesting that the following image by used, but it is an excellent example of the kind of simple animated GIF that is needed: [2] 68.8.202.217 (talk) 00:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Explosive rivets

The article does not mention them. Google knows them. Were they a German invention?--SilasW (talk) 20:56, 13 Jun

These are actually studs or nails. They are fired into concrete without any pre-drilling. The exposed end may have a thread or hook. They are not rivets.220.244.72.236 (talk) 23:41, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Explosive rivets were also used for blind riveting (rather than pop rivets). Compared to pop rivets they gave better expansion of the head. Yes, they were German. They were set off by touching them with somthing like a hot soldering iron. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:37, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Friction-lock rivets

The article does not descibe them--SilasW (talk) 20:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Health and Safety Fail...

People THROWING red-hot rivets fresh from a furnace around building sites? This is either a joke or needs explaining... 137.205.138.179 (talk) 17:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

See: http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675054482_Tennessee-Valley-Authority_construction-of-dam_power-generation_United-States-flag and http://www.fotosearch.com/CRT706/18www/ Wizard191 (talk) 18:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I stand corrected! Never encountered this before. 137.205.138.179 (talk) 23:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

The table describing Al. Al. rivets

I was wondering why the table describing aluminium alloy rivets, their alphabetical letter, driven condition and markings is in the friction type rivet section. These codes are use by the aerospace industry to describe plain rivets, not friction type rivets. 173.177.247.69 (talk) 23:39, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Basic idea not explained for the layman

"On installation the rivet is placed in a punched or drilled hole, and the tail is upset, or bucked (i.e., deformed), so that it expands to about 1.5 times the original shaft diameter, holding the rivet in place. In other words, pounding creates a new "head" on the other end by smashing the "tail" material flatter, resulting in a rivet that is roughly a dumbbell shape". Can somebody please convert this gibberish to something meaningful to the layman. Means nothing to me. Seems to me it needs somebody exerting force on both ends. How is it held in place ? Rcbutcher (talk) 14:47, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Advantages are not covered very well. Cold rivets are normally used in the most demanding applications, such as truck chassis. High stress vibrations occur in all directions. The shank of the rivet must be a very tight fit in the hole. Any movement will soon cause the hole to 'flog out' and the rivet will break. When a cold rivet is hammered the shank expands sufficiently to squash tightly against the hole walls. Cold riveting by hand is very limited in size. Roll pins are a type of cold rivet that can be hammered easily by hand. They are a hollow shank of spring steel with a narrow slot cut lengthwise. When hammered the slot closes and deforms slightly. Should any flogging occur the pin expands with the hole. These are used in high-vibration applications. Cold squeezing is nearly always done in a factory with large hydraulic tools. Hot riveting can easily be done by hand onsite. When the rivet cools the shank shrinks in length and in diameter. The shrinkage in length helps draw the two plates together. The shrinkage in diameter means flogging is possible. Thus, hot rivets are used in less demanding applications, not where vibration occurs, and are used in higher densities than cold rivets.220.244.72.236 (talk) 23:56, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Double Head Rivets

I was looking for information about Double Head Rivets (also known as Double Cap Rivets) and found none. Can we have someone add a section about leatherworking with rivets?

Thanks

WesT (talk) 18:08, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

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