Talk:Rainbow Herbicides

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Agent Orange composition

This article states that Agent Orange was

(50% n-Butyl ester 2,4-D and 50% -Butyl ester 2,4,5-T) used from 1965-1970.

The article on Agent Orange states:

It is a roughly 1:1 mixture of two phenoxyl herbicides in iso-octyl ester form, 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T).

If this page is correct, rather than the Agent Orange page, I assume that it is the n-butyl ester rather than the isobutyl ester that should be shown for 2,4,5-T. If so, just butyl would suffice.
Either way, if anyone has more knowledge one which esters were used, could we correct the page that is wrong?
AJTH (talk) 03:42, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just having butyl description does not suffice. The formulation was changed and there were many arguments at the time within DoD on exactly how it should be classified (whether as a chemical/biological weapon) or and under which military specification it would use (there were several used) between services and whether the Army or Air Force or another agency (CIA) via Fort Detrick (crop destruction) or White House was in charge of making the decisions. This has caused a lot of confusion and unless you want to open pandora's box with all of the contradictory sources on each of the Specifications of Orange, it is probably better not to include each and every specification other than the replacement of butyl 2,4,5-T with the less-volatile 2,4,5-T ingredient (sold under commercial name Silvex). The was also a 30% mixture and at least one production that did not meet any known specification and was subsequently purchased by the Air Force.Johnvr4 (talk) 18:39, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Operation Ranch Hand?

All of the information in this article can be found in the ORH article as well. Should this article be deleted and redirect to ORH? — Preceding unsigned comment added by KasperDenmark (talk • contribs) 15:01, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, it should not. Ranch Hand was one of many herbicide actions and Ranch hand (which was only the declassified part) used only a few of the Rainbow herbicides.Johnvr4 (talk) 20:19, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Super Orange vs Orange II

Super Orange is not Orange II. Orange II has the 2,4,5-T replaced with an off-the-shelf less volatile ester of 2,4,5-T (Silvex). Super Orange or Enhanced Agent Orange is the standard Orange at the time mixed with picloram (DOW Tordon 101).Johnvr4 (talk) 14:29, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to the sources cited it is the same. You have changed the facts without providing a verifiable citation. Someone not using his real name (talk) 17:50, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If your source says it is the same, then that source is wrong. It does not change any facts. The information that Orange II is the same as Super Orange is simply incorrect. Orange II was not enhanced nor more effective, it was simply less volatile. Enhanced Orange is the same as Super Orange. The information on Super Orange comes directly from the information that the manufacturer provided to the US military who provided it to the Joint Chiefs. Sorry about the current poor citation. I have several pages of images of the message files provided by a researcher that do not appear to be online and I'm not sure how much of this info DOW actually wrote or which message reference number is the one needed to locate it. It is archived and available at GWU and NARA.Johnvr4 (talk) 19:46, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to SAAMA, Orange II was also called Modified Agent Orange. Super Orange was also called Enhanced Orange.Johnvr4 (talk) 19:50, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okinawa etc.

I 100% agree that Herbicides were used on Okinawa and there are many references that either prove or indicate they were used, stored, and likely tested there. However, the Okinawa location plus Guam, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Panama are not officially recognized by the US government, DoD, or VA as locations of herbicide use, testing, or storage. That fact should be stated in the entry and clearly distinguished from the official acknowledged sites.Johnvr4 (talk) 18:24, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More background

It would be nice for some more background on why this effort was undertaken in the first place. I would guess that the goal was to reduce forest foliage so it was easier to detect combatants moving around in the forest? Or for targeting weapons? Might just need a link to another article. Meekohi (talk) 01:10, 27 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Use of 2,4-D+2,4,5-T in Gagetown 1956-1964

Agent Purple was sprayed on Base Gagetown 1956-1964. Over 200,000 gallons of it. 2604:3D08:1B7C:8A10:3931:F57:EF2F:79EE (talk) 13:19, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]